ToTE Barbarian fighting help

[Banedon]

As I mentioned, barbarian players often have to do 'dumb' things such as rushing into the middle of the battlefield to trigger increased initiative events.

Even when you're not sure if you can get to your enemies, you have to charge, because a triggered move up the ATB will let you hit them next turn. Moving sideways is defensive and wastes an ATB move up. Unless you're all that desperate to protect your only shooter, which is a level 2. Playing barbarian and not engaging the enemy ASAP is letting them blast you with spells or shooters.

You have to charge alright. So does Inferno for example. Sylvan cannot hold back for too long either, etc. Stronghold is less versatile than the other races in this regard, but you don't have to do dumb things and run into the middle of the battlefield.

The killer Stronghold units - Executioners, Cyclopses - move pretty fast. With them, you move forward sufficiently far to hit the other players' creatures on the next move, which is hopefully far away enough that you won't get hit for full damage by ranged attacks. You will take hits, yes, but you've got Blood Rage as a shield. Shatter Dark might not protect you completely vs. Mass Slow / Confusion + Puppet Master, but you still have to have it, because without it you'll be even more powerless ...

I agree that Stronghold is less versatile than the other races, but I can't agree that they are ineffective. Without Dark Magic, the only way to beat Stronghold would be to superbuff your own creatures with Light Magic and outduke them.

[cjlee]

Actually, I do run into the middle of the battlefield. It works even against human players.

of course, there are reasons.

I love the untamed cyclops, and I need to get him far away from my other units to prevent hitting them. Some more I'm a big fan of divine guidance, word of the chief or chieftain whips - all of which get the cyclops into the enemy ranks very quickly.

I really hate Dark magic when playing stronghold. If they ever get hold of my cyclops, the battle is over.

Banedon, I'm curious to ask you about your words below.

For fun, I've tried out an Inferno defensive strategy, which actually works modestly. I won't pretend its some uber killer strategy, of course, but it uses Inferno hero's high knowledge and the imps well.

I field imps, grunts, pit lords and devils. My main strategy is to Dark Magic the enemy to death. Imps guarantee I have plenty of mana, even after their death, because I'll just eat their bodies. The devils are to summon even more pit lords. The rest are just to survive until I Dark them to death.

Do you feel Sylvan can't be defensive? I'm quite frustrated at their high casualties due to fragile units, so I generally play a defensive Sylvan. Instead of charging in with War Dancers, Sprites and Dragons all of which drop fast, I deploy ranged plus Ancient Treants and Pristine Unicorns.

Ancient treants last forever in defensive mode, and pristines keep getting stronger when I cast light spells on my other units. Ranger being knowledgeable and light oriented, I generally have a lot of mana to mess around with.

I know its great fun to play a Rain of Arrows-Imbue-Destructive Magic ranger, but I've not found this combo practical in reality due to difficulty of getting the right destructive spells and the uncertainty of meeting favored enemies.

You have to charge alright. So does Inferno for example. Sylvan cannot hold back for too long either, etc. Stronghold is less versatile than the other races in this regard, but you don't have to do dumb things and run into the middle of the battlefield.

The killer Stronghold units - Executioners, Cyclopses - move pretty fast. With them, you move forward sufficiently far to hit the other players' creatures on the next move, which is hopefully far away enough that you won't get hit for full damage by ranged attacks. You will take hits, yes, but you've got Blood Rage as a shield. Shatter Dark might not protect you completely vs. Mass Slow / Confusion + Puppet Master, but you still have to have it, because without it you'll be even more powerless ...

I agree that Stronghold is less versatile than the other races, but I can't agree that they are ineffective. Without Dark Magic, the only way to beat Stronghold would be to superbuff your own creatures with Light Magic and outduke them.

[Banedon]

You don't have to run into the middle of the battlefield; that's just giving your opponents' ranged creatures full-damage shots at your units.

I think the major problem with your strategy is that you're not bringing your full army to the battlefield. A high-level hero can be over half your army, but a high-level hero is nothing without a powerful army to accompany him. If you as Sylvan ignore the Dragon dwelling entirely then your opponent will simply win with superior armies ...

Yes I feel Sylvan can't be defensive. Not for long anyway. If you go into a fight with just High Druids, Arcane Archers, Pristine Unicorns and Ancient Treants then I playing any race will direct all my damage at your Arcane Archers, possibly the Druids as well if you're throwing Divine Vengeances around. What are you going to do after I seriously diminish the numbers on your ranged stacks? You have to charge, although frankly in this case I think you have no chance without Dragons / Dancers backup simply because my army will be bigger than yours.

If I play Light Magic-based Sylvan then it'll probably be Mass spells at the start, followed by Resurrection / Divine Vengeance later.

[Midas]

Barbarian has high population, no?

I find Pao Kai EXTREMELY effective, and can some times get minimal casualties, and their attacks will I think force enemies to spread, and with that, I kill those "spreading" creatures with the killer melee units...

And I had a bad experience against Stronghold once, in which their 24 Centaur Marauders had 56 ATTACK POINTS! Holy S***! of course it died, but with one strike, it killed 3 (yes, 3) Emerald Dragons... So I think they are supposed to get casualties, only to recharge your army more with the high population, and just keeps going on...

[sylvanllewelyn]

Midas, I understand your point. I just don't understand the details:

<edit>
0) Oh and one thing: when Paokai's hit more than 1 enemy they only spread the damage out. They are good for killing off weak stacks, hitting ranged units protected in corners and hitting stacks with nasty retaliations that you don't want to suffer. They do not force enemies to spread out though. Usually people like focusing damage on wiping out entire stacks, and Paokai's are actually detrimental. They actually encourage players to stick stacks together. THEY ARE NOT THUNDER THANES.
</edits>

1) Barbarian has high population? Mostly level 1's but that's only several goblins. 14 is exactly the same as skirmishers, gargoyles, even 1 less than demons and zombies. The most noticable difference is actually level 5's but that's because they are individually much weaker.

2) 56 attack points? Assuming lvl 21 Haggash (+11) and level 1 blood rage (+6), (+4) from creature, you still need 35. Assuming artifacts and location visits give you +10 you still need 25 from natural growth. Then assuming all your level-ups were attack, which as a (0.45)^20 chance of happening, you're still on 23 (maybe you got a couple points more somewhere, I don't know). What did I miss?

3) Somehow you have 56 attack points. Let's assume the ranger had pathetic 10 defense. So skill differential is 56 - 10 - 27 = 19. Lucky strike, archery, base damage each, 1.95 for differential and total damage is about 450. You're still talking about a damaged dragon to begin with. Did I misss something about the calculations?

[Midas]

I intended to ask if barbarian has high population, thats why there is "no?" in the end of the sentence .

About the dragon thing, I forgot the calculations because it was around 3 months ago, but I Swear it happened...

But to tell you the truth, this might be the first time a strategy game with a new weaker faction, while nearly other strategy games don't do that
(Heroes III, AoM, you get my point, >>>>>NO?<<<<<)

[Elvin]

But to tell you the truth, this might be the first time a strategy game with a new weaker faction, while nearly other strategy games don't do that

Hardly, they are pretty strong.

[Midas]

of course, as all the other factions are...

my fault then...

[Banedon]

2) 56 attack points? Assuming lvl 21 Haggash (+11) and level 1 blood rage (+6), (+4) from creature, you still need 35. Assuming artifacts and location visits give you +10 you still need 25 from natural growth. Then assuming all your level-ups were attack, which as a (0.45)^20 chance of happening, you're still on 23 (maybe you got a couple points more somewhere, I don't know). What did I miss?

I'm pretty sure the hero leading them was Garuna.

[Midas]

2) 56 attack points? Assuming lvl 21 Haggash (+11) and level 1 blood rage (+6), (+4) from creature, you still need 35. Assuming artifacts and location visits give you +10 you still need 25 from natural growth. Then assuming all your level-ups were attack, which as a (0.45)^20 chance of happening, you're still on 23 (maybe you got a couple points more somewhere, I don't know). What did I miss?

What about if it was alone? The rest of 'em dead? full blood raged, enraged, and the army it was on was BIG, so the more creatures dead, the higher the "rage"? I seriously think that the artifacts gave more than 10 attack,

for your satisfaction then, I'll TRY to get it again, get a screenshot...

But how do you capture screen in HOMMV? Print Screen or what?