8x10

[ThunderTitan]

Well, I don't think that being able to bring whatever units you wish to the battlefield is a necessity. I think that as long as you can place a full town's growth in a line it should be fine in that aspect- whether it gets cramped due to other reasons is something I can't really speculate about.

8x10! Let's say that every creature takes only 1 square, and they sit on the 10 part! That leaves only 3 free squares (1 if they're on the 8 part)! So only a max of 3 creatures will not have another right next to it. Fireball just became much better.
You can put your creatures on the first 2 lines, which leaves 4 squares between the 2 armies (6 if they sit on the 8 part). Do you really think that even the slowest creature will not have at the very least a movement of 2 squares?

[Gaidal Cain]

8x10! Let's say that every creature takes only 1 square, and they sit on the 10 part! That leaves only 3 free squares (1 if they're on the 8 part)! So only a max of 3 creatures will not have another right next to it. Fireball just became much better.

And could quite easily have reduced damage to compensate...

You can put your creatures on the first 2 lines, which leaves 4 squares between the 2 armies (6 if they sit on the 8 part). Do you really think that even the slowest creature will not have at the very least a movement of 2 squares?

See that scan from the polish magazine, units are placed on the 8-squares long part. This leaves 6-8 squares. Certainly doesn't sound much.

[ThunderTitan]

And could quite easily have reduced damage to compensate...

And now it sukz and none will use it unless there are more than 3 units hit...
Inferno must also be nerfed from 5x5 (more that a quarter of the BF, right?)

See that scan from the polish magazine, units are placed on the 8-squares long part. This leaves 6-8 squares. Certainly doesn't sound much.

Almost instant ingagement. And fast creatures can attack anyone in the first round. Devils Teleport is rendered useless. Titans only get 1 shot, and only if they act first.

[Echo_]

Vote Don't like it

The King's Bounty battlefield is superior to this POS. They'd better get their act together.

[Gaidal Cain]

And could quite easily have reduced damage to compensate...

And now it sukz and none will use it unless there are more than 3 units hit...
Inferno must also be nerfed from 5x5 (more that a quarter of the BF, right?)

Pray tell, did you ever use it unless you could hit at least 3 creqtures (or two, one of which was a clone) in H3?

Almost instant ingagement. And fast creatures can attack anyone in the first round. Devils Teleport is rendered useless. Titans only get 1 shot, and only if they act first.

Again, this is different from H3 in what way? A smaller battlefield means that it will be harder to use your units without them getting in the way of each others. Everything else can be balanced with relative ease.

[Xsi]

Whats this talk about there only being a 8x10 battlefield? Is this from a reliable source or only from some polish magazine?

An 8x10 battlefield is impossible for those with common sense, if u imagine two full stack armies, so it seems unlikely that anything has changed from the scalable battlefield feature.

[ThunderTitan]

Pray tell, did you ever use it unless you could hit at least 3 creqtures (or two, one of which was a clone) in H3?

Like i said, 3+ creatures, while in H3 i would also use it against 2 creatures.

Again, this is different from H3 in what way? A smaller battlefield means that it will be harder to use your units without them getting in the way of each others. Everything else can be balanced with relative ease.

In H3 only very fast creatures could reach the the enemy in the first turn, and not all of them (not even the Devils tele reached everywere). And the Titan would get a shot off even if he acted second most of the time.

[ThunderTitan]

No I will go play Heroes of Might and Magic 3. This is because HOMM1-3 are different visions of the same idea and HOMM3/WOG is the final product of that idea. You can add ideas but that is only twitching. HOMM5 creatures and strategic map is the same as 3 so if you have a battlefield that moves the same than the game will live in the same part of my brain that HOMM3 is, which will make it boring. This battle style is the "something new" that everybody was wishing for.

Right, something new. A smaller BF is actually incredibly original, and not just something to speed up combat. It will also bring new strategic options, like using wait so that the enemy can strike you first, even if you are on the last row and he has no ranged units.

In HOMM1 and HOMM2 there was no reduced damage from distance so an archer could fire from the place that he stands. But in HOMM3 firing from the great distance was such a weak attack! In equal battles if my enemy didn't come to me than I would move all my ranged attack soldiers closer so that they would do more damage for the rest of the fight. So this point depends if Nival wants to do it like HOMM1 & 2 or like HOMM3. Actually everybody is close by anyway so the question is not important anymore.

Yes, another strategic improvement. Not having to think whether you would like to Move the archer or Wait for the enemy to come closer. Why are they even bothering, a 2x10 BF would make it last even less.

Actually the Romans took over the world because on the battlefield they always stayed together as the group and never let the Roman soldier get lonely. Haha that is one point for Friend_Of_Gunnar (plus they hired lots of German horses)

Yes, you really got me there. They weren't using tactics, they were just staying together while their enemy would split in several groups that attacked at ramdom intervals.

[Gaidal Cain]

Like i said, 3+ creatures, while in H3 i would also use it against 2 creatures.

That would only have been worth it if there wasn't any other spell in your book except for remove obstacle... I mean, coome one, the h3 fireball did really pitiful damage.

In H3 only very fast creatures could reach the the enemy in the first turn, and not all of them (not even the Devils tele reached everywere). And the Titan would get a shot off even if he acted second most of the time.

Still don't see what you're getting at- if we define "fast" as any unit that can move across the battlefield in one turn, there can be fast units in both settings- there is room for less variation in the H5 method, true, but that will probably not be what I'll complain about with regards to this battlefield. The important question is if there are enough squares to faciliate a battle, not whether Nival can choose such speeds for the units so they can't cross in one turn.

[jeff]

Another aspect is area effects spells, a fireball spell covers a 3 x 3 right now, more than 10% of the 8 x 10 field. I do not see that being reduced since a single unit fills one square.

[DaemianLucifer]

What do you do when the 7 slots are filled up and you "need" to divide a stack? You either don't, or you kick some other unit out

That has nothing to do with the point I was stating.I simply said that you should count on maximum fullness of the army when counting the battlefield width.

[DaemianLucifer]

This battle style is the "something new" that everybody was wishing for.

Hmm...I seem to remeber that HIV added an interesting feature that included no upgrades but choosable creatures instead.Some people hated it.Yet it had some good aspects to them.Now if this is the new thing that they were saying about than HV will pass far far worse than HIV,since this has nothing good to it.What is so good about having 24 squares to fight on?Hell,even in chess you have more room to manuever than here!

[Gaidal Cain]

That has nothing to do with the point I was stating.I simply said that you should count on maximum fullness of the army when counting the battlefield width.

Yes it has. You couldn't bring everything you produced in towns in H2, and now it looks like you'll just barely be able to here. Different cause, very similar effect.

[ThunderTitan]

Still don't see what you're getting at- if we define "fast" as any unit that can move across the battlefield in one turn, there can be fast units in both settings- there is room for less variation in the H5 method, true, but that will probably not be what I'll complain about with regards to this battlefield. The important question is if there are enough squares to faciliate a battle, not whether Nival can choose such speeds for the units so they can't cross in one turn.

Didn't really use fire spells in H3, so i don't really remember the damage (but come to think of it i do recall it being not really stelar), but in H4 i did use it alot on only 2 creatures.

Very fast, fast etc where creature speed in H2. The very fast ones were the ones that could reach the closest to the other side of the BF, but even them didn't reach all the BF. You could have a battle in a 2x2 BF if you really wanted.

The only reason to make the BF smaller is to make battles shorter. All the reasons people put to support the BF size a a variation on this. I don't want shorter battles, that's not why i play Heroes. Like i said, there are other games that have shorter battles, but not ones that have battles like Heroes does. So the people that want shorter battles can get them somewere else, but if you want Heroes type battles there is nowhere else.

[DaemianLucifer]

Yes it has. You couldn't bring everything you produced in towns in H2, and now it looks like you'll just barely be able to here. Different cause, very similar effect.

Sure,but you still could fit your whole army on the battlescrien and still have enough room to have spacing between them and between you and the opposite army.Besides,reducing the number of creatures in army is a bad thing since everyone liked the extra stcak you could bring.

[jeff]

I have to say that I have thought about this new battle style of Nival.
Firstly, this was playtested and they said that 8X10 was best. Why is this so?

I have been thinking about that comment. I respect the privacy agreement the testers have had to follow and applaud them for following it as faithfully as they have. But, one wonders what kind of a mess were they handed if an 8 x 10 was best. I just do not see how a long tactical battle with a full formation of units (at least as many as allowed in H-IV) could be fought. The ability to slow and teleport units in IV allowed an inferior force to have a chance. I know these types of spells may or may not be in H-V, but on a small battlefield a battle of attrition would be difficult/impossible to wage or win without superior numbers. The enemy would be on you too quickly.

[Arzang]

I don't want to sound like an elitist or whatever but the open beta is nigh. and many people argue about this matter like they're a part of the open beta or are clairvoyantes (sp?).

although some interesting points relating to unit size has been brought up I still believe we have to wait and see.

and that whole not being able to bring every unit in town: now what's wrong with that? in H4 you could bring every unit (considering the choices) and have 2 stacks left (heroes took stack places though). I didn't feel this to be any more or less fun than H3.

anyway, it's one thing to be skeptical but let's hold the actual bashing until the open beta. and besides; if enough people complain they might change it.

[DaemianLucifer]

and that whole not being able to bring every unit in town: now what's wrong with that? in H4 you could bring every unit (considering the choices) and have 2 stacks left (heroes took stack places though). I didn't feel this to be any more or less fun than H3.

Yes,but you had 7 stacks on your disposal.Reducing the number of creatures you can bring from your town isnt necessarily a bad thing,but reducing the number of stacks definitely is.Sure,they could use the disciples technique of larger units taking more space,but then theyd have to be much stronger.And I dont think that gryphon will be stronger than priest,even if it takes 4 times bigger space.

[Arzang]

Yes,but you had 7 stacks on your disposal.Reducing the number of creatures you can bring from your town isnt necessarily a bad thing,but reducing the number of stacks definitely is.Sure,they could use the disciples technique of larger units taking more space,but then theyd have to be much stronger.And I dont think that gryphon will be stronger than priest,even if it takes 4 times bigger space.

the only way to increase the number of creatures you can't bring from your town (subtracted from maximum) without lowering the amount of stacks at your disposal lower than the apparently magic figure of 7 would be to increase town dwelling units past 7. which is kind of stupid if you ask me. the more units in the towns=the bigger the risk of town homogenisation. I want my towns unique thank you.

now can you tell me what's wrong with lowering the amount of stacks at your disposal? if heroes of might and magic 3 only had 6 stacks, would you still cling on to your precious number 7? I'm not meaning to flame but I can't see the harm in lowering stacks.

but I agree with you on the fact that unit size alone shouldn't be a factor in determining the amount of stacks you can carry.

[DaemianLucifer]

So your saying that HIV had too diverse towns?Not counting the demon necro.

If HIV had 6 instead of 7 stacks,it would bother me very much.But if HIII had 6,I wouldnt notice,since HII also had just 6 stacks.The more stacks you are able to bring into battle,the more diverse the combat becomes,and the number of tactics available increases,so more is better in this case.