Irresistible magic

[Jolly Joker]

It doesn't "suffer". You learned in previous HoMM games that you can use the magical immunity of your Dragon in combination with area-effecting damage spells like Armageddon, Fireball and so on. On the other hand, having an opponent like a Ranger or a hero able to cast Anti-Magic would be a severe blow for all that.
That doesn't mean you can use this strategy in all games necessarily. They simply exchanged part of the immunity of your Dragons against the immunity of everyone else (which can add-up with spells and abilities and stuff, especially because you have to scratch together everything possible to have in terms of Resistance when playiyng against Dungeon; you may even want to take Destructive Magic yourself when playing the Academy for instance ), and they gave you control about it in one way (it's all up to you) but no option in another (you'll hurt yourself if you aren't careful. So this simply needs a change in strategy because the old options are not valid anymore.
Ok, you don't like it. I don't like the Devils having no no-retaliation anymore either, so what?

[DaemianLucifer]

Ok, you don't like it. I don't like the Devils having no no-retaliation anymore either, so what?

I dont like it either.But while that one can be modded,IM is much more harder.

[Meandor]

You couldnt relly on becoming a dark priest in HIV,yet I did have one in a hotseat once.You cant relly on luck winnig you the whole combat,yet it does happen from time to time.

H4 had much more places were you could lern various skills.

[DaemianLucifer]

H4 had much more places were you could lern various skills.

Thats actually a bad thing in HV.Too few external structures.

[Jolly Joker]

Wow, DL, we agree on something!
Thankfully the addon will bring some more.

[DaemianLucifer]

Wow, DL, we agree on something!

I know.Im scared too

[Meandor]

H4 had much more places were you could lern various skills.

Thats actually a bad thing in HV.Too few external structures.

I doubt that anyone would say that that is a good thing

[DaemianLucifer]

I doubt that anyone would say that that is a good thing

Shuyssar might

[Sir_Toejam]

I dont like it either.But while that one can be modded,IM is much more harder.

Unfortunately, I'm finding that unlike the spell-like abilities of critters (e.g., ressurection), the other abilites appear to be hard-coded.

It's possible to copy a critter entirely, replace the model used and change the stats, then rename it and use it to replace any given critter available in a town or as a neutral, but apparently there is no way to actually "add, subract or change" the abilities for any given critter.

fortunately, the no-retalition ability and teleport is found on vamps, so it seems theoretically possible you could copy the vampire critter, change the model reference to a devil, change the stats, add the "raise pit lord" ability for the archdevil (it's a spell-like ability), and then have a mod that would overwrite the normal devil/archdevil for inferno.

*whew*

not easy, but in this particular instance, I think it could be done.

If somebody really is interested, you should make a request over in the modcrafting guild section.

[DaemianLucifer]

fortunately, the no-retalition ability and teleport is found on vamps, so it seems theoretically possible you could copy the vampire critter, change the model reference to a devil, change the stats, add the "raise pit lord" ability for the archdevil (it's a spell-like ability), and then have a mod that would overwrite the normal devil/archdevil for inferno.

But wouldnt that give life draining to devils?As well as being undead?

[Sir_Toejam]

ah, you might have a point there.

I think i could turn off the "undead" tag, but not the lifedrain.

oh well.

hmm, if one didn't mind changing the teleport ability to flying instead, we could use the air elemental as the model. (again, i think i can turn off the "elemental" tag)

[mr.hackcrag]

Just out curiosity Sir T. how many mods have you made for H5? It seems that everytime I read one of your posts, you're working on a mod to make the game better. That's why it's kind of strange (at least for me) that these threads still have so many arguements in them because it sounds like you've made a mod for virtually every complaint so far. Shouldn't everyone be happy?

[ThunderTitan]

hmm, if one didn't mind changing the teleport ability to flying instead, we could use the air elemental as the model. (again, i think i can turn off the "elemental" tag)

Couldn't you just make their teleport have a bigger range?

@mr.hackcrag
Some ppl would prefer the game to actualy be made better by it's own devs.

[DaemianLucifer]

Just out curiosity Sir T. how many mods have you made for H5? It seems that everytime I read one of your posts, you're working on a mod to make the game better. That's why it's kind of strange (at least for me) that these threads still have so many arguements in them because it sounds like you've made a mod for virtually every complaint so far. Shouldn't everyone be happy?

Mods cannot change the game completelly,you know.For example,IM isnt something theyll change soon(if they ever manage to change it,that is),additional dwellings arent easy to put in,and some of the units abilities are hardcoded,thus wont be changed as well.The most modders can do is tweak the stats and change spellbooks.Meaning,current mods can only polish the game,ut not fix it.

[Sir_Toejam]

Couldn't you just make their teleport have a bigger range?

that's already been done.

https://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/ ... vilmod.zip

[Gaidal Cain]

It's like giving Knights an ability that makes all resurrections only half as effective, never mind the fact that it's what their top level creature has as a speciality...

The analogy is completely wrong.

Your statement is completely irrelevant without any further arguying. But you are right that the analogy is not wholly correct; analogies seldom are. It does, however, capture the heart of what I think the problem is: you have a toplevel creature with a special ability, and a hero with a special skill that annuls some special abilities of heroes and creatures, one of which happens to be your top level creature. I completely fail to see the difference in this regard. I could even take some the arguments against changing IM and bend them a bit to argue for this case:
You talk about no-loss fights; well, that was resurrection usually means. And one could also say something about "hiring another hero to make use of the archangel ability". There's also the argument that resurrection is a "cheap" way of wining battles without losses.

As for the "conservative" argument about keeping things the way they were: Ubival choose to be conservative when they gave the BD total immunity. My argument is that if you have a MR creature, you should be using this as a basis for some of your strategies and tactics, just as you make use of the battle dive of Griffins or Lizard bite of your raiders. It doesn't have to be the most important part, but I think there should be an element there, which I think the IM counteracts. Allowing you to choose if you want to use the penetrating effect of IM would be a good solution, IMO.

Oh, and yes, using italics doesn't look you look as silly as caps. Keeping the amount of emphazised texts down helps as well.

[okrane]

Wow!... it looks like my little poll reached 22 pages of answers...

The thing is I find Iresistible magic the only Racial/Skill that also has a downside... if there were more of these I'd agree but it seems that this is the way they decided to "balance" Dungeon, and I don't like it.

Couldn't you just make their teleport have a bigger range?

that's already been done.

Devils teleport longer? Well... don't get me wrong, but Inferno has already to many troops that hit in one turn. Due to their high initiative Nightmares, Cerberi and Devils are always among the first to act... if devils will strike in the first round too... Inferno would be kind of strong.
About no retal... it would be interesting, since there aren't any lvl 7s with this feat... but keep in mind... in H3 no retal came with a price : ArchDevils only had 200 HP which was very low for a 7th level

[Sir_Toejam]

uh, both devils and archdevils have less than 200hp in h5.

so are you saying that they really should have no retal, or not?

your post is quite confusing.

[Sir_Toejam]

you're working on a mod to make the game better.

not "better" (except maybe just the ones that fix glaring bugs, like "enought"), but just "different".

my goal is twofold:

to make the game enjoyable for more folks (including myself), so more will be encouraged to play.

and to show how easy it is to do a lot of these things so more will get interested in modding, and then larger things could be discussed (forming new factions, or whatever).

[okrane]

uh, both devils and archdevils have less than 200hp in h5.

so are you saying that they really should have no retal, or not?

your post is quite confusing.

Well they have... but all other lvl 7s have lesser HP
Titans only 190 compared to 300 in H3
BD 240 down from 300
Archangels 220 from 250
Emerals Dragons 220 down from 280 or so
Ghost dragons don't remember actually...

So the thing is... devils now have comparable HP to other units of their tier. Giving them no retal will overpower them. Keep in mind that on a 1 on 1 combat between a devil and a Black Dragon for example a devil would hit the BD twice per round(one normal + one retal) and the BD only once...
And giving them more speed would overpower inferno's already strong offensive

I don't really like the devils the way they are... but we should be careful when thinking about changing them