Irresistible magic

[Meandor]

they can be hurt only by warlocks.

[Naskoni]

they can be hurt only by warlocks.

... with magic

[Jolly Joker]

No, that cannot be right.
IF ALL spells would affect BDs then they wouldn't be immune. In that case Magical Immunity would make them more immune than the 50% they had with an Expert Warlock.
So this sounds much too complicated.
The way it is, seems to be a practical solution. It's a rather small penalty for being able to do such amounts of spell damage.

[Naskoni]

No, that cannot be right.
IF ALL spells would affect BDs then they wouldn't be immune. In that case Magical Immunity would make them more immune than the 50% they had with an Expert Warlock.
So this sounds much too complicated.
The way it is, seems to be a practical solution. It's a rather small penalty for being able to do such amounts of spell damage.

Your brain got overloaded? Too complicated? Really? How about not allowing Magic Immunity to be cast on already Immune critters? That simple enough for you?

And why would it make them more Immune by the way? They will become 150% Immune (i.e. Suppa-Duppa Immune, Impossibly Immune, Immune even vs thing that kill "ordinarily" Immune creatures, Immunity Overload) before applying the Irresistible Magic factor, eh?

That makes SO much more sense than BDs resisting everything positive (the Masochism syndrome) but chose NOT to resist harmful Destructive Magic spells? OH, yeah! That's SO much more satisfying and more importantly - simple...

[Jolly Joker]

*Sigh* Your tone still sucks.
How can they be immune when they are suddenly be affected by all spells... err, you mean they are affected only by the owner's spells?
LOL! Great idea! Make them immune to all the opponent does, but you can cast on them whatever you like. Wonderful idea.
Now, if they would be affected by ALL spells from ALL sides, then they wouldn't be immune anymore - or are you immune if you are affected by all spells? In that case you could obviously cast Magical Immunity on them.
*shakes head*

[Naskoni]

*Sigh* Your tone still sucks.
How can they be immune when they are suddenly be affected by all spells... err, you mean they are affected only by the owner's spells?
LOL! Great idea! Make them immune to all the opponent does, but you can cast on them whatever you like. Wonderful idea.
Now, if they would be affected by ALL spells from ALL sides, then they wouldn't be immune anymore - or are you immune if you are affected by all spells? In that case you could obviously cast Magical Immunity on them.
*shakes head*

Other than being arrogant and self-centered I at least though(T) you had more brainpower at your disposal, but I'm obviously wrong here...

What's so complicated for understanding - they are Immune, all the time, but Warlocks, with their racial special - pay attention - called Irresistible Magic, can penetrate through their Immunity (and lose some efficiency while doing so - think tank armor if you wish) and still cast magic on them. Now why should that magic be limited to being harmful only? And since they are still Immune (they never ceased to be) how would you be able to make them more Immune by casting an Immunity spell on them?

Your logic can be illustrated by the following (rhetorical) questions:

- What would happen if you could cast Ressurect on a fully healed stack that didn't suffer any losses (would they get more HP)?
- What would happen if you could cast Bless/Curse on a stack that had it cast on them already (would they get more Blessed/Cursed)?
- What would happen if you could cast Earthquake on a completely ruined town with no walls standing (would the city itself start losing buildings)?
- What would happen if you could cast...

Do you get the idea?

Additionally if ALL sides could cast spells on them how could they be Immune and what would have been special about Dungeon's racial then? How the hell can only Necromancers raise additional troops after the battle - UNFAIR I tell thee!!! Why should a race special that specializes in penetrating Immunity actually do so for positive spells as well!?! Outrageous!!! Unthinkable!!! Too complicated... system... overload...

[Jolly Joker]

What's so complicated for understanding - they are Immune, all the time, but Warlocks, with their racial special - pay attention - called Irresistible Magic, can penetrate through their Immunity (and lose some efficiency while doing so - think tank armor if you wish) and still cast magic on them. Now why should that magic be limited to being harmful only? :

First this would make Dungeon ALOT stronger - no question about it. Which seems, well, mad, maybe?
Second, your question: Why should Irresitible Magic be limited to harmful only? Easy to answer: Why NOT, if it serves. If you have a problem with that, simply call it
Irresistible DESTRUCTIVE Magic.
Case closed.
At least for me.

[Naskoni]

What's so complicated for understanding - they are Immune, all the time, but Warlocks, with their racial special - pay attention - called Irresistible Magic, can penetrate through their Immunity (and lose some efficiency while doing so - think tank armor if you wish) and still cast magic on them. Now why should that magic be limited to being harmful only? :

First this would make Dungeon ALOT stronger - no question about it. Which seems, well, mad, maybe?
Second, your question: Why should Irresitible Magic be limited to harmful only? Easy to answer: Why NOT, if it serves. If you have a problem with that, simply call it
Irresistible DESTRUCTIVE Magic.
Case closed.
At least for me.

A LOT stronger? Why - because Warlocks get expert Light Magic and have no problems researching Resurrection every single game? Or Raise Dead which would take 20% of their HP with each cast at the moment? I mean most Dungeon players usually tell you they hardly ever can afford BDs to begin with and suddenly being able to boost them with decreased efficiency will spell the doom of ALL other factions? Yeah, you almost got me there...

And WHY NOT? Even if it's illogical and stupid? Why not indeed - as long as it was implemented by your idols at Nival and they still pay (or UBI pays - whatever) - then indeed - why not, I'm sure anything they do will fly with you, so...

[Jolly Joker]

I see, that you are still offensive, polemic and pathetic. Must be a broken record somewhere playing.
Arcane Armor on Black Dragons would be pretty unbeatable.
And Irresistible Destructive Magic is completely logical.

[Gaidal Cain]

And WHY NOT? Even if it's illogical and stupid? Why not indeed - as long as it was implemented by your idols at Nival and they still pay (or UBI pays - whatever) - then indeed - why not, I'm sure anything they do will fly with you, so...

You almost succeded in arguing with JJ without resorting to ad hominem attacks. I'd like you try that a bit more, since you seem to be able to argue very well if you wish.

[Angelspit]

The only thing left to do is perhaps to agree to disagree. Otherwise I will have no choice but to close another thread...

[Naskoni]

EDIT: I agree to disagree...

[ThunderTitan]

You almost succeded in arguing with JJ without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

Yeah, the only ad hominen attacks should be with a cricketbat.

Arcane Armor on Black Dragons would be pretty unbeatable.

Why?! Whats the dif to say... the Emerald Dragon. But i am for the "keep 'em immune" side. Then again they could make the odds based on how much reduction you have, so there would be a 25% chance for failure even for the most high lvl Warlock with the right artifact.

And Irresistible Destructive Magic is completely logical.

Don't get me started about why a piece of rock traveling at a few hundred meteres per second couldn't be resisted with spell immunity.
Or the fact that the BD isn't immune to the Priests, Mages etc ranged attack.

[DaemianLucifer]

Arcane Armor on Black Dragons would be pretty unbeatable.

Oh yes,completelly unbeatable.Theyd become something like...Um,emerald dragons then!MY god!An outrage!!

And Irresistible Destructive Magic is completely logical.

Comes from a guy that says logic has no place in heroes game

Honestly,the way you people are portrating warlocks youd think that they are unbeatable now and that if you pick a warlock you are sure to win.Oh yes,making that level 7 creature that costs an arm and a leg to get even stronger would be the end of the world.Youd think that at the start of the game you get free legion of black dragons for free.They cost,they cost a lot.And unlike other creatures that cost alot,they cannot be buffed.So why making them the only creature that cannot be buffed by magic,but can be damaged by it?Oh yes,really logical

[Idleness2]

ok, sorry moderator, im new at this, and I guess the way my brain works, im in too much of a hurry to post then have important afterthoughts hehe, i have FOUND the edit button, thanks for not deleting.

Yeah, u guys who still arent convinced, about this armageddon thing, should check the numbers, by time a warlock would get BDs, for me at least, I would have like 20 spellpower, and plenty of mana to cast an empowered armageddon, and except for veyshan i usually dont get warlocks lucks, but still, the numbers on that are absurd guys...it would be over 1k damage to all the enemy units on the battlefeild and not scratch your BD. It would do over 1/2 damage to creatures that are even fire immune, and there arent many of those...

It would by far be powerful enough that it would negate all other strategies, and it would be totally unbeatable, totally.

the hand off idea (or taking dungeon town) CAN work now, but its extra expense and effort and time, u have to get some non dungeon hero to a good level just for the sake of being an armageddoner, so your 'main' heros would suffer some potential xp asa result,...furthermore, only a necro can get near to the spellpower of a warlock and they still wont have empowered spells, which are a huge kick, and if enemy units resist, they will receive no damage, and they get full effect from magic protection, so it may not really be enough to be game-ending.

[DaemianLucifer]

ok, sorry moderator, im new at this, and I guess the way my brain works, im in too much of a hurry to post then have important afterthoughts hehe, i have FOUND the edit button, thanks for not deleting.

Indeed,could we have the auto merge option like in the old table back?

Yeah, u guys who still arent convinced, about this armageddon thing, should check the numbers, by time a warlock would get BDs, for me at least, I would have like 20 spellpower, and plenty of mana to cast an empowered armageddon, and except for veyshan i usually dont get warlocks lucks, but still, the numbers on that are absurd guys...it would be over 1k damage to all the enemy units on the battlefeild and not scratch your BD. It would do over 1/2 damage to creatures that are even fire immune, and there arent many of those...

It would by far be powerful enough that it would negate all other strategies, and it would be totally unbeatable, totally.

By the time you got BD youd have 20 power.So thats 20+ levels,right?That means youd have to play a big map in order not to be rushed before that,also youd have to acumulate more than a few dragons(at least 10,15)so another month would pass before this strategy(actually its an exploit imo)could come to use.And thats only if you do get armagedon in the guild.

But if you do think armagedon is to powerfull,then nerf the spell itself,and not the whole race(which,btw,doesnt revolve only around that single spell).When PF was powerfull,why wasnt the whole academy nerfed and had its racial broken?When raise dead was overpowered,why wasnt necromancy broken?The fact is that dungeons racial is the only racial that can harm you as well as the enemy.

[Adicto]

By the time you got BD youd have 20 power.So thats 20+ levels,right?

That is false. We can ignore that warlocks start with 3 points in spellpower, that a special dungeon structure gives +1 to KN and SP, and even ignore all the artifacts or structures that can give you additional SP, but the fact is that only with Expert Enlightenment you can get 20 SP at level 20 (+10 ability points).

youd have to acumulate more than a few dragons(at least 10,15)so another month would pass before this strategy

10? 15?! 5 black dragons are enough to halve an enemy army if Irresistible Magic don´t affect your own dragons.

When raise dead was overpowered,why wasnt necromancy broken?

1) Raise Dead only was overpowered for losers
2) Necromancy has nothing to do with Raise Dead. Irresistible Magic, armageddon and black dragons are completely related to each other.

[Idleness2]

gosh, for me, on most maps, i have 20 spellpower on average of level 18 or so, give or take 2...dungeon can buy whatever artifacts to raise it, (i usually get the breastplate and the necklace of victory)and u can hit those power ups, and its such a high percentage that u get + to spelllpwoer each level, hell, u start with 3, u his 2 power ups, which u get on subt. treatures, u have + 4 from artifacts, and this is already at 9, then 18 level u only need to get + to spell power a little more 1/2 the time, right? which u do...and then theres enlightenment, which yrwanna, a favorite for many as starting hero, starts with, and that boots it even more..

[DaemianLucifer]

That is false. We can ignore that warlocks start with 3 points in spellpower, that a special dungeon structure gives +1 to KN and SP, and even ignore all the artifacts or structures that can give you additional SP, but the fact is that only with Expert Enlightenment you can get 20 SP at level 20 (+10 ability points).

True,but in this game chance plays a big role.So considering that you wont get more then half of points in power level 15-20 is the optimum for 20 SP.

10? 15?! 5 black dragons are enough to halve an enemy army if Irresistible Magic don´t affect your own dragons.

Fine.Attack me with just five blacks and lets see how long youll stand against 100 master hunters.I wont even consider other troops that will be used.Plus,if the enemy hero acts before you,youll loose 1 or 2 dragons in an instant.

1) Raise Dead only was overpowered for losers
2) Necromancy has nothing to do with Raise Dead. Irresistible Magic, armageddon and black dragons are completely related to each other.

1)Then you obviously never used it to the fullest.
2)Thats the dumbest statement Ive read since JJ straightened up.

[Adicto]

Thats the dumbest statement Ive read since JJ straightened up

Sure, with your strange perception of reality