Irresistible magic

[cornellian]

Maybe at those battles 2k damage implosions didn't mean a lot, but I doubt that you did that 10k+ damage in a custom game map, as such numbers usually can only be achieved after the third month, or in campaigns -you don't have a lot of time to save 80 angels nor build your hero to 35 attack in any custom game.

On the other hand, a 1000 damage Armageddon spell will kill two black dragons on your army and 5 Arch Devils, 8 Pit Lords, 15 Nightmares, 33 Succubus Mistresses, 66 Cerberus, 75+ Horned Overseers and 160+ Familiars. 1 week worth of your blackies will make you take out about 3 weeks of worth high tier creatures and a month's worth of lower tier creatures of enemy castles; and you will still have your raiders, furies, matriarchs etc.

And people are still complaining.. Hmmm... I repeat, Armageddon is a cheap way of winning the game and is sure to give you no honors in a MP game; I have never witnessed anyone (including myself) praised for his great command of Armageddon spamming after a game he won.

[Orfinn]

Voted no. Its lame that the WL own tropps are harmed by their special, they could all have some sort of anti- irresisestible aura or smt.

[Adicto]

You dungeon players don´t have enough with empowered+warlock´s luck, you want more: the cheap armageddon+BD tactic... yeah of course, maybe the next step will be win the game automatically when you choose play with dungeon .

I´m a necromancer and my creatures are supernatural dead monsters, so I want all my creatures immune to physical damage, death, and stuff...

[Gaidal Cain]

If Dungeon turns out to be too strong with IM fixed, why not rebalance it bny either making Armageddon, the Black Dragons, or some other aspect to Dungeon weaker? Right now, the most obvious way to use Armageddon is in fact not as good as it should be because of a bug. This means that the Armageddon spell is to a large part a waste.

[Shuyssar]

Where did my answer go?

Anyway: Yes!

[DaemianLucifer]

@cornellian

True,10k damage is imposible for custom map,but so is 2000+ implosion.Unless you get really lucky and get everything in spellpower.

[Gaidal Cain]

Where did my answer go?

It was probably eaten by a hungry moderator who thinks that posts should have an actual content, and give a reason for why your vote was cast in a certain way, rather than just saying how it was cast.

[Mytical]

Irresistable magic..well this is a tricky situation. Two schools of thought on this. Lets take dragons in mythology. Resistant (if not immune) to magic, but able to cast magic. Some believe if you are 'resistant' you should have a chance of not casting a spell you try to cast, while others think that your own magic should pass right through...sort of like an off switch that can be controlled.

I am more of a fan of the school of thought that magic resistance is controllable. You can 'focus' and be able to be affected by any spell you choose, but not effect by the ones you dont want to be if your resistances 'holds'. However, I think if you turn it 'off' it takes a little to turn back 'on', and vice versa. A matter of will, not just instant. So, in my opinon (and it is only an opinon) irresistable magic should work like this. When the combat starts, any creatures you have that have magic resistances, ect are unaffected by your spells. If you want to cast a spell on them, you target them, and they 'drop' there resistance. This also bumps them back in the IB bar, and until there next action, they can be affected by ALL magic harmful or not. Then when there turn comes they are bumped again (only 25% each time though), but now are again immune/resistant to magic. Mass spells means all your creatures get bumped, ect. This means there is a balance between choosing to 'buff' your creatures, and the effects that choice makes. However if you choose not to cast any spells on your own troops, they retain all there resistances/immunities. You should be able to control your own magics, to an extint.

There are some exceptions. Casting a fireball near one of your creatures, is as if trying to cast a helpful spell but it doesn't bump and afterwards immediately reverts without bumping the creature. This is a conscious choice to ignore your creatures presence so you don't get to 'shape' your spell arround it. You forgo your ability to control your magic for a specific goal (blasting those enemies to kingdom come). Now the same could be argued for the other spells, but I think it should be an exception, not the rule. Now chain lightning and armaggedon should not be this way, though it does make sense for them to be. Chain lightning you basically arc it so it doesn't hit your troops, and armeggedon you 'protect' your troops from. Of course since armeggedon seems to be irresistable anyhow, this may be a moot point. If your creatures are not normally immune to a spell they should not gain immunity with this skill. Doesn't make sense.

Well if I have confused enough people enough, my job is done...later.

[Cyrox]

Hey people, I've just tested Magical Immunity on my deep hydras before casting normal armagaddeon nearing 2k damage. 6 of them died. So I guess they arent really immune.

Hmm anyway I guess its fair that your own creatures arent immune...otherwise the game would be so unbalanced..just cast magical immunity and armagaddeon all the way.

Btw I noticed a game summary screen when I won the game (since 1.3). Good job Nival!

[Sir_Toejam]

meh, i still think there's other ways to balance the game rather than some nonsensical "immunity that's not really immunity".

I suspect they added a partial phyiscal damage component to armageddon just so magic immunity wouldn't work with it.

same type component as magic fist.

[Meandor]

Cheap?Sure,roughly 50000 gold and ~100 resources is very cheap.Besides,it just makes your racial special weaker then the others racial specials.

Costs doesn`t matter in such situation. It`s "I win" strategy and i`m very glad they fixed that.

[Gaidal Cain]

I hardly think it's an "I win" strategy, but if it was, it would have made a whole lot of more sense to just replace Armageddon with some other spell and be done with it. Havinig it only work for other heroes than Warlocks, who take over a dungeon and reqruit black dragons, is silly to say the least.

[Sir_Toejam]

actually, it doesn't work even then.

you should also be able to gain immunity from it with obs. gargs, fire elementals, and phoenixes.

but they aren't immune either.

like i said, armageddon isn't just fire damage; something else is going on there.

[ThunderTitan]

So wait, are the Blackies immune to the rest of the spells or not?!

[DaemianLucifer]

You cannot buff them,but you can hurt them.

Costs doesn`t matter in such situation. It`s "I win" strategy and i`m very glad they fixed that.

Yes it does,because you cannot relly on it to win.Plus,if you put only blackies,chances are your opponent will play before your hero and kill your dragons,so its a risk.

Hmm anyway I guess its fair that your own creatures arent immune...otherwise the game would be so unbalanced..just cast magical immunity and armagaddeon all the way.

No,its imbalance because irresistable magic is a racial skill,and other factions dont have any bad side effects to their racial skills.

[Meandor]

Havinig it only work for other heroes than Warlocks, who take over a dungeon and reqruit black dragons, is silly to say the least.

Warlock has more SP than any other hero, he has empowered and lucky spells and you can`t protect yourself from him with magic resistance. In other words Warlock is top caster with or without "bugy" racial skill. And it looks nice for me lore wise.

Yes it does,because you cannot relly on it to win.Plus,if you put only blackies,chances are your opponent will play before your hero and kill your dragons,so its a risk.

Why you can`t relay on it? If you had some blackies, Armageddon and a hero with high Sp it was "i win".
Even if enemy hero would get turn faster he wouldn`t have enough time to kill all dragons.
Number of blackies must be high enough to withstand few turns of beating from enemy, you can`t think about victory when going with 2 blackies against 30 Titans and some other stuff.

[DaemianLucifer]

If the opponent hero acts first hell kill one or two of your blacks with his shoot.Also,you must count that master hunters/cerbery/angels/emeralds/etc will all act before you can cast the spell,thus hve a chance of killing the blackies in round one.Also,the opponent can survive your first armagedon and have his hero hit you again.Thus youd need at least three weeks of blackies in order to do this.Very risky and very expensive.

[okrane]

I believe the results of the poll are rather explicit...
Can we mod this?

[DaemianLucifer]

I doubt it because it is embeded deep into the effect of the spell.Maybe in some 6 months time when the modders find out everything about the game mechanics.

[Sir_Toejam]

I believe the results of the poll are rather explicit...
Can we mod this?

I still haven't been able to figure out if there is a way to get area effect spells not to affect friendlies, let alone figuring out if there is a way to mod the basic faction skill so it only affects enemies. OTOH, the "banshee howl" only affects enemies, so...

to tell the truth, it wouldn't suprise me if it can't be modded from the data files themselves.

time will tell, but yeah, i expect this one to take a while before there is a defnitive answer one way or the other.

there are more experienced h5 modders than myself hanging about the elrath forums; it might be worth posting there to see if anyone has tried tinkering with it yet.