Klaus too powerfull?

stijn · Unread postby **stijn** » 22 Jul 2006, 20:25

luckily, klaus ain't that powerfull in the hands of the AI, their paladins attacked my ancient treants on the first turn, lol.

(and since they only seem to be nerfing things when the ai doesn't get how it works i doubt it'll be fixed anytime soon. (that's the reason the gremlins got nerfed, cause the ai only attacked the golems

))

MrSteamTank · Unread postby **MrSteamTank** » 23 Jul 2006, 05:38

Orfinn wrote:If they are not gonna nerf herd Claus, a petition would be the right thing too do, since monkeys works at Ubival. I s it really that hard for them to their eyes and see what a mess this game is, including this clausthrophobic insane ability?

So true. If they cut the strength of this ability in half it would still be too strong. How can you stop a human from simply massing cavaliers and 1 shotting your army. Even the cavaliers/paladins themselves alone without klaus are a little on the strong side. With klaus its a slaughter

Personally I would do the following
Klaus special - 2% jousting dmg bonus + 0.5% dmg bonus per level.
Cavalier/Paladin - Decrease damage to 15-25 from 20-30 with no retal rather than nerfing jousting. This would make cavaliers and paladins weak in normal combat but still strong when it comes to charge attacks.

csarmi · Unread postby **csarmi** » 23 Jul 2006, 06:27

Fix console cheat?

It's just right you can still use codes in MP. But the opposing player should be notified.

russianspy5727 · Unread postby **russianspy5727** » 24 Jul 2006, 00:03

while we're on the topic of insanely over-powered heroes, vladamir should be handicapped as well. He's the necro who can resurrect over a thousand hit points at level 20 with the level 2 spell, raise dead.

vicheron · Unread postby **vicheron** » 24 Jul 2006, 00:55

Vladimir is not that powerful. The spell power for Animate Dead increases by 1 every 3 levels. Level 20 Vladimir with Expert Summoning can resurrect 210 more hit points than another Necro hero with the same spell power.

Nebs · Unread postby **Nebs** » 24 Jul 2006, 00:59

Well, in 1.2 jousting is nerfed. Must be Klaus as well, right? What? No?!

Well, just a bit. Still mighty powerful.

Here's from 1.0 and 1.1 chart:

Now here's from 1.2:

Might not be exact percentage, but pretty close.

This nerfing much more ruined other heroes and their cavs/paladins than Klaus.

juventas · Unread postby **juventas** » 24 Jul 2006, 01:45

Where do these guys get their info? We wanted them nerf Klaus! Klaus! Not every single Paladin under every single hero!

asandir · Unread postby **asandir** » 24 Jul 2006, 01:57

geez, i never realised he had this bonus, and now they "fix" it like this??

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 24 Jul 2006, 02:03

juventas wrote:We wanted them nerf Klaus! Klaus! Not every single Paladin under every single hero!

Please, Jousting was way too powerful too.

cornellian · Unread postby **cornellian** » 24 Jul 2006, 02:28

ThunderTitan wrote:
juventas wrote:We wanted them nerf Klaus! Klaus! Not every single Paladin under every single hero!
Please, Jousting was way too powerful too.

Well, maybe, but keep in mind that Cavaliers/Paladins are tier 6 creatures, they are supposed to be powerful, not just under Klaus' command, but in any army. Nerfing Klaus was the wiser choice, instead they nerfed the whole Haven town competitiveness in the later game, considering that Angels are hard to get and easy to lose...

Having something like Warding Arrows, or Incorpereal(ness?) on tier 3 creatures is something else, having Jousting in tier 6 is another in my opinion...

juventas · Unread postby **juventas** » 24 Jul 2006, 03:12

ThunderTitan wrote:
juventas wrote:We wanted them nerf Klaus! Klaus! Not every single Paladin under every single hero!
Please, Jousting was way too powerful too.

That's like saying Black Dragons are too powerful. Keep the balance of the whole faction in mind.

Meandor · Unread postby **Meandor** » 24 Jul 2006, 06:20

cornellian wrote: Well, maybe, but keep in mind that Cavaliers/Paladins are tier 6 creatures, they are supposed to be powerful, not just under Klaus' command, but in any army.

With high level Klaus they were stronger than most of tier 7.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 24 Jul 2006, 11:21

Meandor wrote: With high level Klaus they were stronger than most of tier 7.

Even without him they were stronger than most level 7s.10% per square is too much of a bonus.

juventas wrote: That's like saying Black Dragons are too powerful. Keep the balance of the whole faction in mind.

Oh,please!BDs are weak,just like all of the level 7s.Sure,they pack a decent punch,but they cost like hell,cannot be healed,nor resurrected,nor buffed in any way,yet you can blast them with your own AOE spells.

cornellian wrote: Well, maybe, but keep in mind that Cavaliers/Paladins are tier 6 creatures, they are supposed to be powerful, not just under Klaus' command, but in any army. Nerfing Klaus was the wiser choice, instead they nerfed the whole Haven town competitiveness in the later game, considering that Angels are hard to get and easy to lose...

Having something like Warding Arrows, or Incorpereal(ness?) on tier 3 creatures is something else, having Jousting in tier 6 is another in my opinion...

Yes,they should be strong,but not stronger then angels,which they are.Or at least were,before the patch.

juventas · Unread postby **juventas** » 24 Jul 2006, 14:18

Master hunters are as good as most 4th tier creatures, and yet people don't have a problem with that. Sylvan armies are almost always centered around their 3rd and 4th tier units (at least from my impressions on message boards). You have to ask yourself the question: did Paladins make Haven more powerful than the other factions? No, they didn't. Unbalanced units are okay as long as they don't ruin the balance among factions. And even if you think black dragons are weak, my point wasn't that black dragons are the be-all end-all unit. My point is that all the units from the same tier do not have to be the same power.

MrSteamTank · Unread postby **MrSteamTank** » 24 Jul 2006, 15:16

juventas wrote:Master hunters are as good as most 4th tier creatures, and yet people don't have a problem with that. Sylvan armies are almost always centered around their 3rd and 4th tier units (at least from my impressions on message boards). You have to ask yourself the question: did Paladins make Haven more powerful than the other factions? No, they didn't. Unbalanced units are okay as long as they don't ruin the balance among factions. And even if you think black dragons are weak, my point wasn't that black dragons are the be-all end-all unit. My point is that all the units from the same tier do not have to be the same power.

Master hunters are ridiculous. They have more dmg than hp(whoever gets to attack first gg) and it leads to very stale sylvan gameplay. What if you decide to get your unicorns, treants, and wardancers first for a melee strat. Sorry you have to rush for master hunters and arch-druids because they are by far the best choice.

Every faction will start off with the exact same units because 1-2 are far better than the alternatives. Wow fun!

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 24 Jul 2006, 15:22

juventas wrote:Master hunters are as good as most 4th tier creatures, and yet people don't have a problem with that. Sylvan armies are almost always centered around their 3rd and 4th tier units (at least from my impressions on message boards). You have to ask yourself the question: did Paladins make Haven more powerful than the other factions? No, they didn't. Unbalanced units are okay as long as they don't ruin the balance among factions. And even if you think black dragons are weak, my point wasn't that black dragons are the be-all end-all unit. My point is that all the units from the same tier do not have to be the same power.

Sorry,but I got the impresion that people DO have a problemwith hunters being overpowered.They should be nerfed as well.

LordErtz · Unread postby **LordErtz** » 24 Jul 2006, 15:41

DaemianLucifer wrote: Yes,they should be strong,but not stronger then angels,which they are.Or at least were,before the patch.

Well, IMO, most level 6 units are stronger than the level 7 units. It's not just paladins, just look at pit lords. You have to take into account the tons of weeks you had growth with them before you got level 7s too. Even if you don't 2 level 6 whoop level 7 anyway most of the time.

Meandor · Unread postby **Meandor** » 24 Jul 2006, 20:21

juventas wrote:Master hunters are as good as most 4th tier creatures, and yet people don't have a problem with that. Sylvan armies are almost always centered around their 3rd and 4th tier units (at least from my impressions on message boards). You have to ask yourself the question: did Paladins make Haven more powerful than the other factions? No, they didn't. Unbalanced units are okay as long as they don't ruin the balance among factions. And even if you think black dragons are weak, my point wasn't that black dragons are the be-all end-all unit. My point is that all the units from the same tier do not have to be the same power.

I see your point. I would realy like that armies would rely on different tier units and maybe some tier 7 would be only support units, like angels good only at resurecting, devils at summoning and so on. But problem is with costs. It takes a lot of time to build tier 7. So i finaly manage to build angels(or any other tier 7) with their insane costs and then i compare then in battle, and what do i get? Tier 6 can be built faster, are cheaper and are stronger. I can only say- WTF?

juventas · Unread postby **juventas** » 24 Jul 2006, 23:18

Ah well. I'm under the impression that, unless you can point to a unit and say "hey, those guys make x faction win significantly more battles than all the other factions," it's all ok. I can see that happening with Klaus, but I don't see it happening with regular 1.1 Paladins.

It's a good rule of thumb that Tier (x+1) is better than Tier x in terms of ease of balancing, but rules of thumb make for a dull game.

Kalah · Unread postby **Kalah** » 24 Jul 2006, 23:48

Sure, he's a decent @$$-kicker, but he's not what you'd call overpowered. All heroes have their thing, and some are better than others - let's have a look at some of his competitors, shall we?

Jhora has increasing initiative as her level goes up. Having high initiative doesn't just give you the edge in this game, it can indeed prove so powerful you might want to cast Mass Slow as the first thing you do when you face this babe. Having initiative gives your creatures the right of way, so to speak. They act first, strike first and thus you own the battlefield. The fact that this ability works on all creatures in her army makes it an awe-inspiring ability.

Lazlo's ability strengthens the backbone of the Haven army - the footmen/squires - by +1 to attack and defense for every three levels (right?). That means by the time this boy reaches level 21 he gives them +7! OK, not exactly a game-winning feature, but when you add the other bonuses you are likely to gather up during the game and the importance of the squires in your average Haven army, you have a very important hero skill. However, several heroes has this kind of skill, so it evens out. Dougal's bonus to the archers/marksmen, which is also +1 for every three, makes him a viable candidate for hero of the year. Jezebeth's strengthening of the Inferno shooters does the same. Lucretia powers up the important vampires. Ossir boosts the mighty elves.

Findan: As the Sylvan shooters are among the most powerful beasts in the game, that pre-battle Elven Volley can prove as devastating as it can prove game-deciding. It has for me, many a time.

Unicorn mistress Ylthin just rocks.

But yes, Klaus is a very powerful hero indeed. Just remember he is dependant on the growth and cost of the creatures.

The Heroes Round Table

Klaus too powerfull?

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