Opinions of the Ultimate Racial Skills?

[GatorG]

What is everyone's opinion of the Ultimate Racial Skills?

Academy - Do you give up too many other skills (e.g., no Logistics and you have to take Summoning Magic) to try and get all spells in the game?

Dungeon - Rage of the Elements looks great, but you have to select War Machines and no Destructive Magic just looks like Blasphemy! In addition, no Attack/Defense and would you take Enlightenment on a Warlock?

Haven - No real pickings, but seems to waste some subskills under Enlightenment, Logistics, and Luck. Plus, no Attack/Defense...you have to wonder if that's worth the triple damage of Retaliation Strike.

Inferno - This looks good to me! What about you?

Necropolis - No complaints, although a lot of people like Summoning Magic (in exchange for Enlightenment I would assume). Is Howl of Terror that useful?

Sylvan - Two minor pickings. No Archery (Attack) or Evasion (Defense). However, you get luck rolled on units as an ultimate...a good exchange?

G (-:

[HodgePodge]

Personally, I can't imagine a Knight without Attack & Defense … or a Ranger without Archery … or a Warlock without Destructive Magic … one has to wonder if the folks over at Nival even bothered to think things through before throwing this game together.

[Gaidal Cain]

Inferno, Necropolis and Sylvan's seems OK. The other three is probably not worth it- Haven's is way to weak, Academy's is not much stronger, and you'd probably be better of building a Warlock that's more powerful earlier.

[Gus]

one has to wonder if the folks over at Nival even bothered to think things through before throwing this game together.

or maybe it's one of those things known as "strategical choice": Do you go for the Ultimate or do you take useful skills here and now?

Now, maybe there are balancing problems (some are too strong, some are too weak) but still, if the road to the Ultimate Skill was only über skills, then it would be too much of a no-brainer, don't you think?

[ThunderTitan]

or maybe it's one of those things known as "strategical choice": Do you go for the Ultimate or do you take useful skills here and now?

It would be if the Ultimate was worth it. Right now it doesn't seem so. Especialy the Warlock one. The Sylvan one might be, with Necro and Inferno a big if.

[DaemianLucifer]

Haven has the weakest ultimate,and its not worth wasting your skills.Dungeon isnt bad,but its not that awesome.Academy seems nice,but Ill have to try it first.Necro is fine,since howl of terror is really powerful.Inferno is fine as well.And sylvan is the best,IMO.With archery,theyd be unbeatable.

[Gus]

@TT

Now, maybe there are balancing problems (some are too strong, some are too weak) but still, if the road to the Ultimate Skill was only über skills, then it would be too much of a no-brainer, don't you think?

[ThunderTitan]

Now, maybe there are balancing problems (some are too strong, some are too weak) but still, if the road to the Ultimate Skill was only über skills, then it would be too much of a no-brainer, don't you think?

No it wouldn't. Some aren't worth being chosen instead of a regular skill. Sylvan's only good coz Luck is overpowered.

[Gus]

Which ones aren't worth being chosen? But more importantly: why do you assume they won't be buffed? Or that MP experience will change how we perceive things? Enlightenment could well be an underrated skill for example.

Anyway, i really think there's some balancing needed with these ultimate, but complaining that you can't both get the skills you want AND the Ultimate is a bit strange.

[ThunderTitan]

Anyway, i really think there's some balancing needed with these ultimate, but complaining that you can't both get the skills you want AND the Ultimate is a bit strange.

I'm not complaining about that. I'm complaining that usually it isn't worth going after the Ultimate. Enlightenment isn't bad, just that it isn't much good without having a magic skill. And they force you to take it for an Ultimate that isn't really worth it (Warlock).

And i'm not gonna judge them by if they will be buffed. When that happens then we can judge them again. I also think they require too many level to get too, especialy since after lvl 25+ you level up very hard. Maybe if they cut down the requirements to only 3 skills, and powerdown the Sylvan one, or Luck.

[Gus]

Well, no offence at all, but i wonder if you read what i post before =/
I agreed that skills and the Ultimate probably needed some rebalancing, but i was defending the fact that it makes sense, from a strategical point of view, that you cannot get the Ultimate AND take the very skills you want.
Obviously, like in most strategy games, some skills need to be fine-tuned, but the concept "strong now or stronger later" is a good one IMHO.

[cornellian]

Isn't that what the ultimate skill should be like to get? I mean if it is the ultimate, then there should be no better skill, and it should perhaps not win you the game by itself, but better be damn close to it. Therefore, one should make a decision of going for normal skills or going for the ultimate risking some power for a much greater one; and so I agree with Gus, it is a nice idea, only not very nicely implemented as we have couple not-so-worthy ultimates...

I think they need to buff the two very weak ultimates, for Haven and Dungeon; two powerful ultimates that should remain the same, for Necros and Wizards (how people can call Arcane Omniscience weak is above me); and two very powerful ones that might or might not use some nerfing, for Inferno as instant gating will likely mean that your opponent's fastest units are blocked and archers will have to melee, and the Sylvan's luck is, well simply overpowered...

[ThunderTitan]

Well, no offence at all, but i wonder if you read what i post before =/

HP never said she wanted uber-skills, but skills that make some sense. And IMO Sylvan get some good skills with their Ultimate. Warlocks get screwed both with the Ultimate and the skills needed to get there. Not really a strategic choice if 1 is way better then the other.

[Pagan]

Academy - Do you give up too many other skills (e.g., no Logistics and you have to take Summoning Magic) to try and get all spells in the game?

Useless, if you reach level 30, and haven't got all the spells that you NEED, then you did something wrong, besides, I would rather go with all spell mastery, than ignore 3/4 of them and take some lame ultimate ability.

Dungeon - Rage of the Elements looks great, but you have to select War Machines and no Destructive Magic just looks like Blasphemy! In addition, no Attack/Defense and would you take Enlightenment on a Warlock?

Useless as well, the bonus damage is just not worth it, and don't forget the stupid requirements.

Haven - No real pickings, but seems to waste some subskills under Enlightenment, Logistics, and Luck. Plus, no Attack/Defense...you have to wonder if that's worth the triple damage of Retaliation Strike.

Alright, but not really great, work very well if you have a killer stack (like a stack of fast moving imperial griffins).

Inferno - This looks good to me! What about you?

Necropolis - No complaints, although a lot of people like Summoning Magic (in exchange for Enlightenment I would assume). Is Howl of Terror that useful?

Sylvan - Two minor pickings. No Archery (Attack) or Evasion (Defense). However, you get luck rolled on units as an ultimate...a good exchange?

Now that's what I call ultimate skills, instant reinforcement, dramatically reduce enemy's morale, always deal double damage (well actually it's 225%). All of which can turn the tide of battles once learned.

PS: War Machine is actually a solid skill if you can get triple ballista and/or flaming arrows, you can deal serious damage with this combo, very useful for your secondary hero, or even the main one.

[DaemianLucifer]

Useless, if you reach level 30, and haven't got all the spells that you NEED, then you did something wrong, besides, I would rather go with all spell mastery, than ignore 3/4 of them and take some lame ultimate ability.

This depends on a map.What if a map has no high level mage guilds?This ability becomes a must.

[nosfe]

the warlocks ultimate is the worst of the bunch because it was made when elemental chains where more complex, and you could do more damage by breaking them; it should be more of a mage thing as the warlock is the closest thing to a sorcerer that we have in h5(ie D&D sorcerer)

[DaemianLucifer]

the warlocks ultimate is the worst of the bunch because it was made when elemental chains where more complex, and you could do more damage by breaking them; it should be more of a mage thing as the warlock is the closest thing to a sorcerer that we have in h5(ie D&D sorcerer)

I agree.Something like 100% irresistable magic,with your own troops still resistant to your harmful effects,would be very cool.Although that might be a little to powerful.

[Gaidal Cain]

This depends on a map.What if a map has no high level mage guilds?This ability becomes a must.

Useful? Yes. A must? Not more so than the three Ultimates that are good no matter what.

[ThunderTitan]

Now that's what I call ultimate skills, instant reinforcement, dramatically reduce enemy's morale, always deal double damage (well actually it's 225%). All of which can turn the tide of battles once learned.

Does Ultimate Gating make the gated creature show up imediatly, or just the gating ones not lose their turn?

The Necro one won't affect all enemies, and is nowere near having double damage all the time.

Sylvan basicaly gets double its creatures. Luck should be only 50% extra damage. More fair that way.

[nosfe]

Sylvan basicaly gets double its creatures. Luck should be only 50% extra damage. More fair that way.

actualy they get +125% dmg per total because of the req of the ultimate