GrayFace MM8 Patch v2.5.7 [Mar 4, 2022]

[Xfing]

Broken, but understandable

[GrayFace]

I'd like to ask how to disable strafing in mouse look mode in MM8, according to readme "NormalStrafe=1" in mm8.ini should do the trick, but that doesn't seem to have any effect for me. Using the most recent v2.5.7 [Mar 4, 2022] patch.

Oops, I called it StandardStrafe in code and NormalStrafe in readme.

Alternatively, would it be possible to increase the strafe speed? Its rather slow speed is what makes me want to disable it in the first place.

Yes, that's a good idea. Stay tuned for new version.

I installed this patch in the middle of a game, which might not be the wisest thing to do, but I was having crashes upon trying to enter the Destroyer's palace before installing it and the patch fixed the problem nicely. One issue though was that it wiped clean all my set Lloyd Beacons. I don't know if this is a bug or just something unavoidable but I thought it good to report it, just in case.

You can still use them, only images aren't compatible. I had to change image names because they were broken.

There have been fixes made for this - not quite sure what the situation is now, but I'm assuming the Merge has a permanent, integrated solution, and so does Grayface's MM8 patch.

My patch doesn't AFAIR. But I should indeed do it.

[Kinox]

Hey; again, this is indirect inquiry.

Found a completely bizarre Promotion issue involving Troll→War Troll in Ironsand Desert. But I do not know if this is something that comes from MM8 base engine (which, we should remember, is nonetheless used on MMMerge) or if it something derived from MMMerge only. The conditions to replicate this are very specific, so this might be the reason why this was never identified before anywhere.

If we bring Volog Sandwind, as a Troll, to be Promoted to War Troll (in the same house we took him from), AND he is staging at the 1º of the 5 Slots in the Party, he can't get Promoted for some mysterious reason. We need to switch the order first then it will work.
In that particular game, I had another Troll, Overdune Snapfinger, Promoted to War Troll, while delivering the Quest. My Party was full so when I picked Volog Sandwind he went straight to the Adventurer's Inn. After a while, I've made a total shift in Party, that's when I took Volog Sandwing (Troll) and occasionally, at the 1º Slot, without suspecting any possible trouble on his future Promotion.

It might be that this pattern is specific to any MM8 Promotions, but to the 1º Slot, when "Character 0" (main, 1º starting Character) was taken off from this Slot or from the Party —a trick that is not spontaneously achievable in MM8 unless with simple cheats.

[Tomsod]

Indeed, it's a Merge thing. In the original MM8 the 1st character, if they're a troll, gets promoted when you first turn in the quest, and the post-quest promotion code just doesn't check that slot again, as you cannot swap the protagonist in vanilla. Report this in the Merge thread, they're the ones who should fix it.

However, I just remembered another promotion bug I found some years ago: when doing the post-quest promotion of Necromancers, the promoter will always say you lack the jars, unless one of the promotable Necromancers is in the last party slot. Not sure if it isn't still fixed, though.

[Kinox]

Indeed, it's a Merge thing. In the original MM8 the 1st character, if they're a troll, gets promoted when you first turn in the quest, and the post-quest promotion code just doesn't check that slot again, as you cannot swap the protagonist in vanilla. Report this in the Merge thread, they're the ones who should fix it.

However, I just remembered another promotion bug I found some years ago: when doing the post-quest promotion of Necromancers, the promoter will always say you lack the jars, unless one of the promotable Necromancers is in the last party slot. Not sure if it isn't still fixed, though.

Thanks for the observation. Actually, I don't remember 100%, but it is likely Overdune Snapfinger on that occasion for me was also on the 1º Slot before (even though, there, but not the first Created Character). One question would be if these Post-Quest Promotion limitations are something only related to the special 1º Slot, or if that pattern would happen similarly to any Slot: let's suppose Overndune Snapfinger was on 2º Slot on Quest Promotion, then later on, Volog Sandwind was also on the 2º Slot on Post-Quest Promotion.

I'll be sure to notify the whole issue for MMMerge anyways.
Although, structurally, this might be a 'legacy' coming directly from MM8 engine.

For the Lich Promotions/Post-Promotions… and a bit similar to the Nofesfartu Promotions/Post-Promotions, I too remember some crazy things going on from MM8; but this is a long time ago. Hope it was solved in the MM8 GrayFace Patching, but we can't expect much dynamics from MMMerge then: lots of previously solved bugs get simply 'reversed'; I guess it's very complicated to Re-Patch upgrades from one mod to the other that works, as this is not something easily integrated.

[Pedantic]

Only noticed this a few days ago ( silly me ). Thanks very much, Sergey. Finally 'Fleetfingers' is fully functional AND I noticed my Priest was doing extra damage - so you must have fixed Mace not adding to damage past Expert, too. Gave me a fright when all my Beacons dissappeared, though. But, as I discovered here, they still worked (phew!!). Thanks again.

[Pedantic]

Possible Bug?

I just looted a Doomsday Cloak of Protection - Special: +10 to all Resistances. But !!!!!

It ISN'T affecting my Magic Resistance? - which is and of itself a Resistance. Is it meant to work that way?

If so... bah humbug. This game is bonkers yet so much fun. Piles of notes all over my desk that need collating - ugh!

[xyllia]

+resistances never gives +Magic Resistance.

At least, in the original MM6. They probably kept it that way? /shrug

I assume the reason that is, is because it would be absolutely overpowered as most magic status effects like Curse, Sleep, etc would almost never land on you once you got up into the 50s or so.

[Pedantic]

Hey xyllia

thanks for the reply. It sure seems that the game wants you to be forever cursed in "The Mire of the Damned"

Ah well, If I train one week at a time, I can speed up the calender and go visit the Seer next December - lol.

Sheesh - another three years to get +9 Magic Res.

[Eksekk]

+resistances never gives +Magic Resistance.

At least, in the original MM6. They probably kept it that way? /shrug

I assume the reason that is, is because it would be absolutely overpowered as most magic status effects like Curse, Sleep, etc would almost never land on you once you got up into the 50s or so.

Why would it be overpowered? If you equipped all +10 resist items then you deserve easier time. Also magic resistance only affects a handful of effects: "Paralyze, Stone, Dead, Eradicated, DrainSP, Age: MagicResistance" and there's no prot from magic in mm6. You can bump the res with day of protection much higher than with items.

[Pedantic]

Ahah... Problem solved.

After doing the Superior Temple of Baa I beaconed back to whatever the name of the small town is in Kriegspire and...
aaarrrggghhhh!!!! - drank from the fountain. Yay.. +10 Magic Res. Bit of to and fro with Free Haven and the job's done.

@Eksekk - buffing doesn't help (as I just discovered) when battling Lich's ... eek! Even Wizard Eye was cancelled immediately I re-cast it. I like to see who's trying to mob me from behind. Ah well, killed the lot of them and got Eric's? or someone's Skull anyway.

Yeah, yeah, I'm still a noob at M&M VI - give me time. Played my first game on a printer (hangman) way back when and I'm still gaming avidly at the tender age of 68 yrs young. Yep.. still young at heart. Boys don't grow up, they just get older.

[xyllia]

Why would it be overpowered? If you equipped all +10 resist items then you deserve easier time. Also magic resistance only affects a handful of effects: "Paralyze, Stone, Dead, Eradicated, DrainSP, Age: MagicResistance" and there's no prot from magic in mm6. You can bump the res with day of protection much higher than with items.

They didn't want you buffing your Magic Resistance to upwards of 80-90 and then waltzing through the droids in the Control Center without worrying about their Erradicate ever landing.

They didn't want you to have any way of completely avoiding those attacks.

The elemental damage resist, is just that. It resists an amount of elemental damage. However, Magic Resistance resists some status effects (you sure Curse isn't among them? Pretty sure it was), and not too many spells (if any in 6?) do damage that Magic Resistance reduces.

Also, NWC loved DrainSP attacks, sadly. While I view them as entirely OP, they didn't want you stacking +Magic Resistance on your spellcasters to make druids entirely powerless. They wanted you to fear them (and the devils later) that have DrainSP.

Personally, I think DrainSP is entirely OP myself, they should have made it like 25% instead of ALL your SP. But that's just me. /shrug

I suppose there's a reason why you see a lot less of it in 7 and... IIRC, none in 8?

I guess I'm just thankful that they gave us Protection from Magic in 7 that stops the Stone/Erradicate junk. /shrug
But I suppose it does turn half of the later game into a joke, where the only thing you ever have to worry about is Dragon Breath.

[raekuul]

Why would it be overpowered? If you equipped all +10 resist items then you deserve easier time. Also magic resistance only affects a handful of effects: "Paralyze, Stone, Dead, Eradicated, DrainSP, Age: MagicResistance" and there's no prot from magic in mm6. You can bump the res with day of protection much higher than with items.

The elemental damage resist, is just that. It resists an amount of elemental damage. However, Magic Resistance resists some status effects (you sure Curse isn't among them? Pretty sure it was), and not too many spells (if any in 6?) do damage that Magic Resistance reduces.

Magic Resistance (as provided by the Earth Magic spell) reduces damage from: Magic Arrow, Mass Distortion, Spirit Arrow, Harm, Flying Fist, Mind Blast, Psychic Shock, Destroy Undead, Prismatic Light, Moon Ray, Armageddon, Dark Containment.

Unfortunately Magic is also the most common immunity that monsters have, so enjoy wasting 200 SP for nothing.

[Eksekk]

They didn't want you buffing your Magic Resistance to upwards of 80-90 and then waltzing through the droids in the Control Center without worrying about their Erradicate ever landing.

I get the point, but I don't think they "didn't want", as day of protection and ring of dark magic make it too easy. And it's not complete chance.

They didn't want you to have any way of completely avoiding those attacks.

It's not complete chance to avoid.

The elemental damage resist, is just that. It resists an amount of elemental damage. However, Magic Resistance resists some status effects (you sure Curse isn't among them? Pretty sure it was), and not too many spells (if any in 6?) do damage that Magic Resistance reduces.

I'm sure, check mechanics written down by Grayface. About half of conditions are resisted with stat effects, which are laughably low (500 stat gives you... 30 effect. So 1/3 chance of being afflicted with maxed stat and luck (which are very hard to max), while enemies deal effects every few seconds).

BTW, it's probably balanced by the fact that casting debuffs hurts you, because you waste mana and recovery trying 10 times to land any one after level 15 or so, when they would become actually useful. Literally all of them except maybe one or two target magic resistance, which monsters have in abundance.

Personally, I think DrainSP is entirely OP myself, they should have made it like 25% instead of ALL your SP. But that's just me. /shrug

Agreed. In my unfinished yet mod I did it like that. At first it was 10%, but some time later I decided it trivializes the effect and went for 25%.

I guess I'm just thankful that they gave us Protection from Magic in 7 that stops the Stone/Erradicate junk. /shrug
But I suppose it does turn half of the later game into a joke, where the only thing you ever have to worry about is Dragon Breath.

I agree it is very overpowered. But it's the only stuff that reliably protects against most debilitating effects. While you can get anti-paralysis and anti-stone items, they're quite expensive, rare, so you have to scour shops constantly, and probably you won't get them for all PCs, especially as medusas have both paralyze and stone. The best you can do is to have one/two immune PCs that cure those effects. For bigger stuff, like dead and eradicate, there is no counter except body resistance.

I would ideally somehow keep it in game, but split its effects into different game elements. For example, some rare enchantment that gives immunity to paralysis for all PCs, but protects 10 times only and then must recharge. Or having GM earth resistance give you some reliable protection from stoning, and not day of protection to not make you get all effects with one school.

[GrayFace]

They didn't want you buffing your Magic Resistance to upwards of 80-90 and then waltzing through the droids in the Control Center without worrying about their Erradicate ever landing.

That's not how it works. 100 res gives 60% protection from effects.

Personally, I think DrainSP is entirely OP myself, they should have made it like 25% instead of ALL your SP. But that's just me. /shrug

Nowhere near a bad as Death/Erradicate that drink all SP too on top of requiring someone to revive and heal and wasting a ton of time.

[Pedantic]

I too hate Drain SP so, now that I've completed the game twice, I've edited it out in Monsters.txt

Really, I don't mind it in a balanced game, Skyrim for example - Items that boost Magicka Regen AND an actual Skill tree that lets you boost Magicka Regen by 50%. Of course, none of that matters in the end because "Cleansing" drains all of your Mana during the final skirmish anyway. Besides, imho, the "Magic" in M&M VI just, erm, vacuums for the player. Not so for the minions who always hit, the majority of which hit you with completely unblockable energy Magic.

In my head I call this game - MM6: The Mandate of Personal Attrition.

[Pedantic]

@GrayFace

[-] Agar's Laboratory (d19): You could get +50 intellect any number of times.

So what did you actuallly change here? All I get is +10 stats for ONE team member - unbalancing my team. So I just reloaded, cleared the Lab again, and left the stupid bonus alone.


And, before you ask, Nobody was cursed. I cleared Mire of the Damned and the Frozen Highlands of Harpies months ago (lol - yesterday actually, but you get my drift). As of yet, I have no idea what else might curse me - on the off-chance you might want me to try something out. But, tbh, there's not much left alive right now.

EDIT: Several hours later

Bah Humbug, don't worry about it, GrayFace.

I just deleted my current game. Why? It's obviously corrupted. I just got the same bonus from one of those Decks of Fate, and I KNOW that ain't right. I did interrupt a Defrag earlier in the day - that shouldn't have started. My fault I guess....

[Pedantic]

Okay, Game Uninstalled. Removed from Registry with CCleaner. Game Partition Defragged ( I use Defraggler manually before installing "any" software - can't for the life of me understand why the disabled Micro$oft Defrag Task keeps getting reinstated AND running of its own accord... Grrr!!!) Reinstalled MM6, Patched etc. etc. and everything is dandy.

Current new team of toons is lvl 76 and about to clear Agor's Lab again. I've found a stone pillar that curses everyone ( you all know the Temple I guess - so no spoilers here ) and, once again, Maestro GrayFace, I'd like to know what you changed RE: the Cauldron or Skull pile.

[-] Agar's Laboratory (d19): You could get +50 intellect any number of times.

I'm hoping that all team members can, at least, get one INT boost each? Any danger of a reply sometime soon?

I'm really not at all well attuned to such a slow board - it's 2023 after all, but at that same time you have no idea how appreciative I am that folks are still playing, and supporting, these timeless masterpieces. I wish there were more GrayFaces in the world that actually shared the results of their passion. Seems like since the advent of Mod Pay-Walls, PTW, and Micro-transactions, that the world of modding has become close-knit and no longer shares their know-how. So big thanks, GrayFace.

Fortunately for me I am well able, and adept, at modding my own Fallout and Skyrim games - my other genre passion.

[Eksekk]

[-] Agar's Laboratory (d19): You could get +50 intellect any number of times.

I'm hoping that all team members can, at least, get one INT boost each? Any danger of a reply sometime soon?

I'm really not at all well attuned to such a slow board - it's 2023 after all [...]

I believe it now works so that if you are cursed, you can get permanent +50 intellect one time - in vanilla it worked indefinitely.

Yeah CH is unfortunately quite slow, and your ping (@Grayface) won't work. I believe the right way is to quote:

ping

And probably best thing is to join MM discord. Instant replies are not guaranteed, especially for technical stuff (as people have their own things to do) but it will for sure be much faster than here.

[Pedantic]

Hey,
thanks, Eksekk - perfect timing (it's not so slow after all

Well alright, one time seems balanced enough. tbh, I wouldn't have abused it even if it was previously an unlimited resource. From dragging out my second game of mm6 to a little over 5 years - seeing how much exp I could derive from repeating areas and repeating the shrines - it's painfully obvious what a downer the Stat Break-Points bring to the show.

Anyway, by perfect timing I mean, I've had lunch, watched the football (WFL) AND done the dishes and am about set to carry on with my play-through. I only tagged GrayFace in my post because, well, it's "his" patch after all, and only he knows what's what and all about it. My bad, besides, you've been help enough. Me? join MM discord? I have some ideas but absolutely no LUA knowledge whatsoever. I'm sure I'd just be cluttering the place up with no good reason for being there <grinning>

Cheers!