Sylvan Strategy Thread

[Elvin]

@Wolfsburg
You can't possibly depend on a 2% skill. Heck sometimes I wait on an 8% skill and it's not offered till lvl 15..

@godlyatheist
Then pick logs faster Seriously in almost any map I can get lvl 15+ on week 2, if the map ends week 4-6 and the map has enough goodies what more can you ask for?

[Asheera]

Actually, that 2% chance is never 2%, because you already have some skills taken (even the racial counts), and the chances for all other skills to pop up is increased

[Elvin]

Might as well be. To create a warmachine build you must aim for it from the beginning and getting them early is almost as rare. Sure you may get them easier at lvl 18 but then who cares.

[Asheera]

But even if you have absolutely no skills at all other than the racial, it will still be increased to 2.22% (because the racial has a 10% chance)

I know it's not a big difference but I just had to correct the 2% stuff

[John.Galt]

Hmmm... I never thought about that Asheera, but I suppose you're completely right. So in all actuality, the probability should be a lot higher than 50%...

[Wolfsburg]

@Wolfsburg
You can't possibly depend on a 2% skill. Heck sometimes I wait on an 8% skill and it's not offered till lvl 15..

Can you share perhaps some alternative builds for sylvan then?

What skills should I pick if I dont get war machines offered up to lvl 10?

[godlyatheist]

@godlyatheist
Then pick logs faster Seriously in almost any map I can get lvl 15+ on week 2, if the map ends week 4-6 and the map has enough goodies what more can you ask for?

Picking up logs early is irrelevant if the game simply does not want to give me snatch after the pre-requisite are met. It's like you have a 2% chance to meet the requirement for (insert perk) and on top of that you have a 2% chance of it showing up after getting the pre-req. Make it so the same basic perk cannot be offered more than 3 levels in a row, why should I be forced to take the catapault 10 levels in a row as a war machinist??

[Elvin]

Learn to deal with lvling up There is bound to be some crap along the way but you can minimize it to an acceptable level. Not sure whatever you are talking about 2%, doesn't work that way.

@Wolfsburg
Dunno, so many options really. Att, enlight, light, leadership, luck are all viable choices. Heck even summoning/destructive or dark are brilliant choices. Not all factions can do that but high druids ensure that any magic can work well, imagine a heavily boosted phoenix or 100+ fire warriors with phantom.. Or God forbid rain of arrows with frenzy.

[danhvo]

You do have better odds at advancing in some skills than others depending on what faction you are playing.

You seem to be confused between skills and abilities. The 2% number for Ranger applies only to the chance of being offered War Machine as a *new* skill. You can do something about improving those odds, but not much.

But once you've selected a new skill, all abilities you're qualified for are given uniform chances. I was talking about that, because some people wonder why certain abilities keep being offered.

[Asheera]

Ok, this is explained in the manual, but I decided to post here as well for those that are lazy and don't want to read the fan manual


Skills
For skills, you'll have two pop-ups: one of a new skill, which is selected from all the skills you don't have based on some specific chances your faction has, and an old, upgradeable skill (upgrade it to higher mastery) chosen from the list of all your skills not taken to Expert mastery yet, with the same chances. That's right, once you pick a skill it won't matter that it pops only 2% for your faction anymore, it will have the same chance to pop up at "upgrade" as the others.

There is the special case when you don't have more skills to upgrade, and you'll be offered two new skills. There is also the special case when you can't learn a new skill (you have all 5 slots occupied) and you'll be offered from two upgrade-able skills to choose.


Abilities
First, there is a rule: You can learn only ONE ability per mastery level of the respective skill. So, to learn Battle Frenzy AND Archery, you'll have to have at least Advanced Attack.

Now, there are three "basic" abilities for each skill. These pop up with equal chance at level up, regardless of the skill they are in.

There are also "advanced" abilities with specific requirements based on your class.

When you level up, you are offered two abilities: one basic and one advanced (doesn't matter the skill from which they originate). If you have no advanced skills, two basics will pop up, and vice-versa.

Don't forget the rule that you can gain only one ability per that ability's skill mastery level. This also means you can learn only THREE abilities max for a specific skill.

[danhvo]

But even if you have absolutely no skills at all other than the racial, it will still be increased to 2.22% (because the racial has a 10% chance)

I know it's not a big difference but I just had to correct the 2% stuff

Yeah, what's up with that 10% chance of racial skill? You are never offered a racial skill as a new skill. I don't know why it's included in that table. Is it there just so that the total adds up to 100?

[Asheera]

Is it there just so that the total adds up to 100?

Yes

But the point is that it's still considered as a taken skill, so you actually never have a 2% chance for a skill (you have a bigger chance - at least 2.22%, higher depending on how many and which skills you take)

[Wolfsburg]

Dunno, so many options really. Att, enlight, light, leadership, luck are all viable choices...

What about defense? Not a good pick?

And can you explain a bit better how come enlightenment be of any use to rangers?

(And you know me well enough to assume I want to know those answers for PvP purposes )

[godlyatheist]

Dunno, so many options really. Att, enlight, light, leadership, luck are all viable choices...

What about defense? Not a good pick?

And can you explain a bit better how come enlightenment be of any use to rangers?

(And you know me well enough to assume I want to know those answers for PvP purposes )

Enlightment gives you stats, which is always good. If you have heroes that start with it, you get more exp = more level = even more stats. Intelligence allows to spam triple/rain of expensive high level spell. The perk that gives you +10% chance crit on avenger is good late game.

[Elvin]

Defense can be good but if I want a defensive skill I'll go for enlightenment. Not so much for the extra xp but extra defense and secondarily knowledge that the ranger often gets in lvl ups. The extra knowledge also translates into more spellpower through the high druids. Seems to me like a better deal.

[blizzardboy]

What about defense? Not a good pick?

And can you explain a bit better how come enlightenment be of any use to rangers?

(And you know me well enough to assume I want to know those answers for PvP purposes )

Enlightenment is a universally overpowered skill. It's not a bad idea to take it regardless of what faction you are, unless you're playing a very quick map.



Let’s say you have a level 20 ranger. A ranger has a 45% chance to gain defense each level. So going with averages, your ranger will have a defense of 9.

A level 20 ranger with expert enlightenment gets +1 stat per 2 levels, for +10 total. So you’d be averaging a gain of +4/+5 to your defense. We'll round up and say it’s +5.

In contrast, a level 20 ranger with expert defense will have a flat 30% melee damage reduction.

If the attack of the attacker is equal to the defense of the defender, then the 30% reduction from expert defense would bring the damage multiplier from 1.00 down to 0.70. With the +5 defense from enlightenment, it would bring the damage multiplier from 1.00 down to 0.80.

If the defender has a large advantage of defense over the attacker’s attack, let’s say +30, then the 30% reduction would bring the damage multiplier from 0.4 down to 0.28. With the +5 defense from expert enlightenment, it would bring the damage multiplier from 0.4 down to 0.3636.

If the attacker has a large advantage of attack over the defender’s defense, let’s say +30 again, then the 30% reduction from expert defense would bring the damage multiplier from 2.50 down to 1.75. With the +5 defense from expert enlightenment, it would bring the damage multiplier from 2.50 down to 2.25.

However, the 30% reduction for defense only counts with melee attacks. You have to take the evasion perk to get the 20% reduction to ranged attacks. The defense bonus from Enlightenment is universal. Still, I think we will agree from the numbers that Defense is overall superior for helping your defense.

But, obviously, this is only counting the benefit to defense that Enlightenment is giving you. Enlightenment will also increase your other stats as well as increase your experience gain.

[Asheera]

I don't have time now (it's late) to check all your calculations, but I just spotted an error here:

With the +5 defense from enlightenment, it would bring the bring the damage multiplier down to 0.80.

Shouldn't it be 0.75? (you actually counted with +4 defense?)

[blizzardboy]

Shouldn't it be 0.75? (you actually counted with +4 defense?)

Not according to the formula in the Fan Manual (page 302).

[Lord Lakely]

Defence is a good perk overall, but in Sylvan's case, there are simply better skills to take. Vitality can be a big help though.

I agree with Elvin, if you want to absorb enemy damage, take Enlightement to boost that Defence. It's synergetic with Defence, but you can better use the Defence slot for another skill, like War Machines, Leadership or Attack (I expect most people to take Enlightement and Luck, if they have the chance)

[Asheera]

Not according to the formula in the Fan Manual (page 302).

Ah yes sorry, my bad