Favorite overall faction across all heroes game?

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Poor Inferno, no votes for them yet.

I guess being in only two Heroes games has to hurt (every other faction appears in at least 4 games, except Conflux/Swamp/Dwarves)

[Muszka]

I guess their reputation went down with H3 where only the Effereti meant somekind of real power. In H5 they aren't so bad...

[Macros the Black]

Woo, that's a hard descision..

Knight/Castle/Haven: I always liked the fact that these are well balanced. Don't usually care much about humans in a fantasy game, but I gotta say they were always well-done (except in HoMM IV where they had the gay pink colorscheme..). In Heroes V, they are definately my favorite when it comes to looks. Arch Angels and Seraphs look extremely cool.

Sorceress/Rampart/Preserve/Sylvan: never liked them until HoMM 3. They sucked in HoMM IV again, but they're pretty nice is HoMM 5. All creatures are decent there, although none of them really stand out.

Wizard/Tower/Academy: eh.. they were *ok* in HoMM 3, and horrible for the rest. Not because they're bad, I just never liked their looks. Although I have to say Titans and Storm Titans in HoMM V are, next to Arch Angels and Seraphs, my favorite creatures when in comes to looks.

Warlock/Dungeon/Asylum: These guys were simple the best in HoMM 2. In HoMM 3 they were still the "super" faction, but it was balanced with the others. In HoMM 5 they are really cool. You need to really know the game to play them well. Very strategic faction to play. Both creatures as well as hero are important. Which is why I chose them as favorite faction overall.

Barbarian/Stronghold: never liked them. Just boring, imo. In HoMM IV they were kinda cool because their heroes kicked ass. In HoMM V they're nice, but they don't stand out at all. Maybe even my least liked faction in HoMM V.

Demonic town/Inferno: never liked these guys much either, although - again - in HoMM V they look cool and the whole gating thing, and the Succubus's (both upgrades) make them fun to play. And in HoMM IV I liked the Inferno/Necropolis mix.

Fortress: they sucked. End of story.

Undead/Necropolis: always been a cool faction, in each and every game. Never the best faction, but they were always up there with the coolest.

Conflux: man, this faction was just boring as hell. What were they thinking when they created this faction? I'd rather have had the Forge, honestly.

Fortress: they're a good faction, but I somehow never feel like playing them. I gotta say, if you zoom in on the hero in the combat/replay/movie maker screen, the hero looks delightfully terrifying

[UndeadHalfOrc]

A good, long post.

Sorceress/Rampart/Preserve/Sylvan: never liked them until HoMM 3. They sucked in HoMM IV again, but they're pretty nice is HoMM 5. All creatures are decent there, although none of them really stand out.

You thought Sorceress castle sucked in HoMM2? I don't know, I always liked their fast shooters and pheonixes.

Barbarian/Stronghold: never liked them. Just boring, imo.

If you're into building up an end game power, yeah they seem boring. But their strength in H1 through H3 has always been to quickly conquer the opposition before they have a chance to get the big critters and big spells out - and having a hero with 11 attack, 3 defense, 1 spell power and 1 knowledge is the perfect way to do just that, and they shine even more on maps where you start mostly with only ore and wood. Strategy games need a faction focused on quick-building and rushing

And in HoMM IV I liked the Inferno/Necropolis mix.

I thought that this was the stupidest idea NWC ever had (next to the Conflux)

Conflux: man, this faction was just boring as hell. What were they thinking when they created this faction? I'd rather have had the Forge, honestly.

A huge +1 to that !!

[Muszka]

Hey UHO, you just found someone who hates Conflux...

[Macros the Black]

You thought Sorceress castle sucked in HoMM2? I don't know, I always liked their fast shooters and pheonixes.

Hmm, that's true. Thing is, I just never really felt like playing them. I know they're good, but my "favorite faction" isn't only based on how good they are - it's based on how much I enjoy them also
Which is why I said they're better in HoMM V. Actually, if you just look at how good they are, they're maybe the worst faction in HoMMV. Too many weaknesses to come up with a good strategy for them.

About the Barbarians:

If you're into building up an end game power, yeah they seem boring. But their strength in H1 through H3 has always been to quickly conquer the opposition before they have a chance to get the big critters and big spells out - and having a hero with 11 attack, 3 defense, 1 spell power and 1 knowledge is the perfect way to do just that, and they shine even more on maps where you start mostly with only ore and wood. Strategy games need a faction focused on quick-building and rushing

Well, I've got 2 things to say here:
I never was into rushing, until HoMM V. I was always the player who wanted it all. I'd have a problem when I was buying up my creatures and staying in town with my main hero, and the week was almost over at the time I'd finally bought them all up. Really couldn't stand having to decide wether to stay in town yet another week, or move out knowing that by the time I reached the enemy's town he'd have a week's worth of more creatures than me :/
Hehe, I was never really good at the game, to be honest. But nowadays I've learned what's important to pick up and what you can leave behind, and to form strategies that don't involve amassing a huge force before attacking the enemy when it's not needed.
So that explains why I never got the Barbarians much. Second thing is, I just didn't like their looks, and never much enjoyed playing them. In HoMM 5, for instance, they can't learn magic, so all you do in a battle with the hero is use some battlecries and occasionally attack a creature. Not much to decide, really. And the strategies for the creatures are all very straight-forward too, not much room for different tactics in the battle.

About Inferno/Necropolis:

I thought that this was the stupidest idea NWC ever had (next to the Conflux)

I have to agree with you from a logical point of view. It didn't make any sence. But the reason I still liked it, is that it made it less boring to have two towns in one, rather than fighting with only undead or only demons all the time.

A huge +1 to that !!

thank you!

[UndeadHalfOrc]

. But the reason I still liked it, is that it made it less boring to have two towns in one, rather than fighting with only undead or only demons all the time.

To me, it just smelled: We don't have the time, funding or resources to add an Inferno town so let's just take the creatures we have for undead and inferno and merge them together.

I remember the 3DO boards in 2001/2002 like it was yesterday: some NWC employees posting screenshots of the game and explaining features. Everytime she (Maranthea) posted them, I would shake my head in disagreements. No more upgrades? Infernopolis? No more swamp faction? Archers being able to retaliate against projectile attacks? Genies being ultra powerful if divided? Heroes fighting in a STACK BASED combat engine? All of this made no sense to me. Never bought the game and most likely never will.

And the developers kept saying "Upgrades are a useless feature anyway, everybody upgrades" argument is weak. Upgrades DO pose a strategic choice: to attack and rush my neighbor with my unupgraded troops (and have more troops), or patiently and carefully take the time to upgrade everything to have the best army possible? (Exception made for the few must-have upgrades (gremlins, marskmen, grand elves, etc)

[Metathron]

No more upgrades? Infernopolis? No more swamp faction? Archers being able to retaliate against projectile attacks? Genies being ultra powerful if divided? Heroes fighting in a STACK BASED combat engine?

Ah yes, that is why we love HoMM IV. Despite all its underdeveloped areas, the game is leaps and bounds above the blandness of HoMM III for me. P.S.: I cannot emphasize enough how glad I am that HoMM IV and HoMM V: TotE no longer had the awful upgrade system of III.

All of this made no sense to me. Never bought the game and most likely never will.

A HoMM fan who refuses to try a HoMM game for himself? Perplexing, to say the least.

[Avonu]

Warlocks - they have the power, mana vortex (in H3-4) and purple dragons (oh, and armageddon - it is pity it not work in HV anymore but on the other hand spell damage formula for heroes in HV is joke).

Only thing I don't like is their underground castle in H3 and in HV (and this Dark Elves theme - I prefer mythological beasts theme) - swamps or lava fitting better for them (IMO).

[Macros the Black]

To me, it just smelled: We don't have the time, funding or resources to add an Inferno town so let's just take the creatures we have for undead and inferno and merge them together.

Heh, I always thought it was because they couldn't think up how the inferno would fit with the "Life v. Death / Order v. Chaos / Might" theme and so just stuck them together with Necropolis
Although, of course, they could have easily said "Life = Humans, Death = undead, Order = wizards, Chaos = inferno, Magic = dungeon, Might = stronghold". That would have made sence too.
The worst part of it would have to be the simple fact that the Demons have always been the real bad guys. What are they doing with the Undead? But meh.. Like I said, I liked having a town with diversity, even though I didn't make any sence.
Oh, and another thing - venom spawns? ice demons? What the hell?

I remember the 3DO boards in 2001/2002 like it was yesterday: some NWC employees posting screenshots of the game and explaining features. Everytime she (Maranthea) posted them, I would shake my head in disagreements. No more upgrades?

Yeah, no upgrades was bad. But I liked the idea of choosing which creature to use instead of it. But in HV: TotE you have the best of both

Archers being able to retaliate against projectile attacks?

Again, a feature I liked back then, but now I have to say I like it more that this is an ability only Succubi have.

Genies being ultra powerful if divided?

Eh.. It makes no sence, that's true, but it does add strategy to the game.

Heroes fighting in a STACK BASED combat engine?

Hey, I liked that feature. It was horribly bad implemented in HIV, but the idea made alot more sence to me than the heroes standing behind the battle lines, not even being damaged by Armageddon. However, I don't want to see it return.

All of this made no sense to me. Never bought the game and most likely never will.

You never should, imo.. Not because of the reasons you mentioned, but the game is imbalanced as hell and UGLY. All the creatures look gay as hell, especially the humans with their pink colors.
I recently started it up again to see if it would be cool to make a campaign where you had only heroes, but the uglyness and balance issues proved otherwise.

And the developers kept saying "Upgrades are a useless feature anyway, everybody upgrades" argument is weak. Upgrades DO pose a strategic choice: to attack and rush my neighbor with my unupgraded troops (and have more troops), or patiently and carefully take the time to upgrade everything to have the best army possible? (Exception made for the few must-have upgrades (gremlins, marskmen, grand elves, etc)

Very true. But I guess their idea was that now you could instead choose which creature dwelling to build..

but on the other hand spell damage formula for heroes in HV is joke).

Care to explain?

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

GOD yes Conflux sucks. It's so obvious that whoever designed that faction didn't spend quality time researching the balance between the other 8 factions.
As if Castle wasn't newbie-friendly enough, damn it. I kept discovering unfair advantages, from the most obviously broken stuff (double 7th level growth, easy access to every magic school, the grail building etc) down to the additional primary skill point the Elementalists have over other magic heroes.
Plus the hero selection is utterly boring.

Suppressing the urge to rant on about dumb AB additions, I voted Warlock/Dungeon etc here. I haven't played the other installments a lot (and never IV), but they rock in III and in the other games I immediately liked their line-up the best.

[Avonu]

but on the other hand spell damage formula for heroes in HV is joke).

Care to explain?

Sorry for long waiting for answer but here it is.

Let's start with spell formula on examples like lightning bolt and armageddon spells (for spell power 10 and expert magic school - for H3 and HV).

HoMM 1
Lightning bolt = 25xSP (250 damage)
Armageddon = 50xSP (500 damage)

So with 10 spell power you can kill:
- 5 (LB) or 10 (AR) paladins (50 hp each)
- 4 or 6 cyclops (80 hp each)
- 2 or 5 phoenixs (100 hp each)

HoMM 2
Lightning bolt = 25xSP (250 damage)
Armageddon = 50xSP (500 damage)

As above:
- 3 or 7 crusaders (65 hp each)
- 4 or 6 cyclops (80 hp each)
- 2 or 5 phoenixs (100 hp each) - note: phoenix usually starts battle
- 1 or 3 bone dragons (150 hp each)
- 0 or 1 titan (300 hp each)

HoMM 3
Lightning bolt = 50+25xSP (300 damage)
Armageddon = 120+50xSP (620 damage)

As above:
- 1 or 2 archangels (300 hp each)
- 1 or 2 ancient behemoths (300 hp each)
- 1 or 2 gold dragons (250 hp each) - note: only if you have proper artifact
- 1 or 2 black dragons (300 hp each) - note: only if you have proper artifact
- 1 or 3 ghost dragons (200 hp each)
- 1 or 2 titans (300 hp each)
- 1 or 2 chaos hydras (250 hp each)
- 1 or 3 archdevils (200 hp each)

HoMM4
I don't know how exactly dmd formula works (because of +100% dmd from pyromancy or sorcery), so I skip this game

HoMMV
Lightning bolt = 20+20xSP (220 damage)
empower spells +50% (330)
Armageddon = 30+30xSP (plus 20+20xSP if creature was hit in center of battle field) (330 damage/550 damage)
empower spells +50% (495/825)

For non-empower spells:
- 1 or 1 (2 if hit in center of battlefield) archangel/seraph (220 hp each)
- 0 or 1 (2) bloodeyed cyclops (235 hp each)
- 1 or 1 (2) emerald/crystal dragon (200 hp each)
- 0 or 1 (2) black dragons (240 hp each) - note: only if you have proper artifact (IIRC)
- 1 or 2 (3) ghost dragons (160 hp each)
- 1 or 1 (2) (storm) titans (190 hp each)
- 1 or 1 (2) archdemons (211 hp each)
- 0 or 1 magma dragon (280 hp each) - note: only if you have proper artifact (IIRC)


As you can see - basic spell damage in HV is lower then in H1. Even if you consider spell damage boosting artifacts (like +50% from lightning bolt), enemy hero can always have artfacts that reduce spell damage.
I don't count lucky spells (don't know exactly how it work with addition to empower spells and what chance of trigger they have) or sorcery in H3 and remember that empower spells cost your hero 2x more mana points.

Now - let's add artifacts that can boost hero spell power - for H1-2 only one copy of them is availbe to equipt by hero for this test - in game hero can have multiply copies of them, so his spell power can be even greater.
For H3 and HV lets equipt hero with the best spell power adding stuff.

HoMM 1:
+4SP Arcane Necklace of Magic
+3 Witch's Broach of Magic
+2 Caster's Bracelet of Magic
+2 Mage's Ring of Power
so hero can have additional +11SP (not menting about Ultimate Wand of Power +12SP) and deals:
LB 25x21 dmg = 525 dmg
AR 50x21 dmg = 1050 dmg

HoMM 2:
+4SP Arcane Necklace of Magic
+3 Witch's Broach of Magic
+2 Caster's Bracelet of Magic
+2 Mage's Ring of Power
+2 Black Pearl
+1 White Pearl
+5 Hemlet of Anduran
+5 Staff of Wizardry
+3 Arm of the Martyr
+2 Legendary Scepter

= +27 SP
LB 37x25 dmg = 925 dmg
AR 37x50 dmg = 1850 dmg

HoMM 3:
Weapon: Sword of Judjement +5SP
Shield: Lion's Shield of Courage +4SP
Armor: Titan's Cuiras +10SP
Helm: Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment +6SP
Boots: Sandals of the Saint +2SP
Amulet: Necklace of Dragonteeth/Celestial Necklace of Bliss +3SP
also some artifacts that boosts spells damage (like orbs or ring of magi)

= +30 SP
LB 50+40x25 dmg = 1050 dmg
AR 120+40x50 dmg = 2120 dmg

HoMM V:
Weapon: Beginner's Magic Wand +2SP
Shield: Book Of Power +1-3SP (lets say it is +3)
Armor: Robe of Sar-Issus +6SP
Boots: Dragon Bone Greaves +3SP
Amulet: Dragon Teeth Necklace +3SP
Ring: Dragon Eye Ring +1SP

= +18 SP
LB 20+20x28 dmg = 580 dmg
AR 30+30x28 (plus 20+20x28 if hit in center of battlefield) = 870 (1450) dmg

Of cource chance that you have all mentioned artifatcs on one hero is very small (but it is posible - you need just XL map and a lot of free time) but you can see that in HV spells do less damage then in H2 or H3 (add for this even lucky spells and empower spells and compare them to sorcery skill and damage boosting artifacts from H3 and I think winning result will be still for H3).



And final answer for your question why spell formula sucks in HV - armies in HV are large like in H3 but spells are weaken (Armageddon in HV 30xSP; in H3 50xSP; same with lighting bolt and probably with rest of spells).

[ByteBandit]

Like I posted earlier, I pretty much like them all. But when I play WoG, I always go with the Fortress. WoG balanced that town out much better than 3DO did.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Like I posted earlier, I pretty much like them all. But when I play WoG, I always go with the Fortress. WoG balanced that town out much better than 3DO did.

Did WoG do anything drastic with their units' stats? Examples please

[ByteBandit]

I don't so much know the numbers, I just know the gameplay. Sorry about that. It may have to do with my script selections. I seem to do better with Fortress than most other towns with WoG. But you know? With all the improvements in WoG, Inferno is still near the bottom. It seems to be hard to bump that town up just a bit for programmers. May have to do with Demons, Devils, you know, religious stuff. "Ohh if I bump this town up, I'll burn in Hell for my Sins!'

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Inferno: In my own patch I have lowered the cost of and increased growth of lev 1-2-3 units, made pit lords/devils slightly stronger and made town portal an earth&fire spell. Also reduced their chance of getting crap spells at level 2&3 and fire spells (including Land mine and Firewall) are stronger. Most people commented it's easier to play with Inferno now, so I'm pleased.

As for Fortress, I really didn't do all that much besides the chaos hydra buff.

[ByteBandit]

Well, I'm glad somebody did something for Inferno. Good for you UHO. Just absolutely the worst town before. I never selected it much. For me, it was all those Fire Spells they offered. And Fire Magic was something I never wanted much as a Secondary Skill. Now, if the Fire Spells had more effect than the Standard H3/SoD Spells, then I think Inferno would be excellent.

[Deni]

voted wizard/tower/academy

[UndeadHalfOrc]

This was due for a bump

[GreatEmerald]

Tower. Was a hard choice between Tower and Rampart, because I like both designs a lot, but Tower wins by a small margin. It's just awesome to think about a city of magic and knowledge, with libraries, towers, flying adventurers and other neat tricks.