MM7 Mok patch - massive weapon bug discovered

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Now I know why so many people here praised the monk despite all my proof of the Knights' (and Thief using dual dagger) sheer dominance. The weapon skill damage bonus is bugged in MoK's patch. I was using the latest official version (1.1) the whole time and that version has no such bugs. HERE IS WHY YOU WERE WRONG!

After numerous tests (backtracked using many different save games) Here's what the bug is in MOK's patch in a nutshell:

Using a sword/dagger in your left hand negates all the skill related +damage bonuses you had from the weapon in your right hand (be it a Spear, Mace, Axe or Dagger). The dagger GM damage bonus can only be gotten once. Axe/Sword combo users get screwed. Spear/Sword combo users get royally screwed: not only do they lose the spear damage bonus, but they also lose 1d6 damage due to wielding your spear using only one hand. Unequipping the sword actually raised my damage! Dual wielding GM Dagger users also get screwed. The only way Thieves can still do decent damage is by equipping a sword in his right hand and a dagger in his left hand - that way the dagger bonus still adds up, although only once.


By the way, the exact same bug also exists in MM8. I was sooo pissed off when my damage didn't increase when my knight dual wielded a sword and spear (the ultimate combo in MM7). My vampire was semi-okay by equipping a sword in her right hand and a dagger in her left hand. (see above for Thief). She did decent damage, but somewhat slower than if she used only daggers.

Is there any way I can contact the MOK team?

[CoffeeGnome]

Don't forget the monk can (in addition to using his combination unarmed & staff fighting style) diarm traps, cast magic, and at higher levels cast hamerhands upon himself to gian an additional bonus. Additionally the monk can achieve grand master in both body building and learning above that of the knight.
Sorry knight you were outmatched even before we discovered your dual-wielding glitches. Armsmaster at grand master does not do all of this for the knight.

[HodgePodge]

Wow! Looks like I'm gonna have to try playing with a Monk next game.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

HodgePodge, ignore what CoffeeGnome said, I hate to be blunt but he just rambles whatever he feels like saying (without concrete proof). He has no idea what he's talking about, he doesn't do the multitude of tests that I do, he never tried modding the game, he never tried comparing the different game versions, and I doubt he completed the game as often as I did.

CoffeeGnome, I really don't feel like repeating myself to you. Read my posts in this thread
viewtopic.php?t=7156

The CORRECT version of the game is 1.1, no Mok patch applied. Spear + sword combo is unbeatable. Can your monk surpass 120-140 damage, at max speed, without heroism!! at level 80 ? I don't think so. The best my monks could do was around 90. With Unarmed boosting rings.
And please don't mention hammerhands again, that spell is bugged, and both Vampiric Weapon and Fire Aura surpass that poor excuse of a spell. Thank you.

[CoffeeGnome]

I do not know if I have beaten the game as many times as you have but at the beginning of the game and throughout I personally want as many spellcasters as possible. The only excuse to waste a character slot with someone other than a sorcerer, cleric, or druid, is to fill a skill needed by the party as a whole.
Sorry but the knight does not fill this purpose, they have only rank ability in disarm traps and without this score being able to be promoted to expert, any skill points invested in this area are a waste. I know that there are other ways around traps but these other ways require telekinesis and you must be a master-level in earth magic to gain this ability. Good luck in completing the sorcerers quest without disarm traps as all the parts to the golem are in chests.
So for me it does not matter what data you have collected because the knight is just not practicle because it takes a character slot away from another spell-caster possibility. To me the knight is only for testing purposes only and not an option for a complete party.

[PhoenixReborn]

Unequipping the sword actually raised my damage!...Is there any way I can contact the MOK team?

From what I can see the MOK team (person) posts at the TELP tavern...I bet it will come up with google.

I was trying to reproduce what you have stated but I'm not 100% sure I understand.

I have a GM sword knight. He is using two swords. When I unequip either sword the damage drops correspondingly.

I am using Mok's patch, 1.2. This allows the game to work in Windows XP with no hassle.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Honestly I don't know which Mok version I'm using, I used the installed files from somebody else because MOK refuses to install on my W98.

However after some more tests I have found that not only is this bug present in MM8, it's also present in the 1.0 version of MM7 ! I did a fresh install, loaded up a game and same problem. So the bug might not come from MOK, it might be because the files I used were patched from the old MM7 v 1.0

Using Two swords works perfectly fine because neither of your sword raises damage via skill level. Whenever I mentioned damage, I meant weapons for which "Each Skill level raises damage by 1 point" applies. My dark elf and vampire in MM8 used two swords in most of the game, and did decent damage, like expected. It's the spear/sword combo and dual GM dagger that ticked me off.

That is why, in the bugged MM7, using a dagger in the left hand and sword in the right hand works better than the opposite. The left hand "erases" the skill bonus to the right hand (it's sword, so OK, no damage bonus anyway) but if the right hand has a GM dagger, its damage bonus is nullified.

[dcinroc]

I have never experienced such a bug in MM7 or 8.

I run on WinXP with Mok's patch (dunno which version) and no other patches or downloads.

Are you running any mods on your game?

[GrayFace]

CoffeeGnome, I posted a reply in the corresponding thread: viewtopic.php?p=204968#204968

[Avonu]

Using a sword/dagger in your left hand negates all the skill related +damage bonuses you had from the weapon in your right hand (be it a Spear, Mace, Axe or Dagger). The dagger GM damage bonus can only be gotten once. Axe/Sword combo users get screwed. Spear/Sword combo users get royally screwed: not only do they lose the spear damage bonus, but they also lose 1d6 damage due to wielding your spear using only one hand.

I have never experienced such a bug in MM7 or 8.

I think that both of these quotes are true.
I play (again) MM7 and my Goblin Knight had not problems with bonuses from skills. He wield spear and sword (both GM skills) and when I unequipped knight sword his damage was lower.
But he wields Gibbet (spear) and Wallece (sword) - both artifacts - and he is probably problem with items.

In MM6 and MM7 you can't combine bonusues from two or more items. Lets say - two rings of disarming +24 and +25 gives "only" +25 bonus to disarm trap skill. I think that same problem is with using additional weapon (not artifacts or relics or special item) in left hand (or rather using both same weapons - swords or daggers) - bonusus don't cumulate.

However - if you equipt artifact and custom item with same skill bonus, they cumulate. My knight wield Hero's Belt (+5 armsmaster), Wallece (+10 arms) and Armor of Armsmaster (+12 arms) and have +27 bonus.
Same with disarm traps - ring of disarming (+25) and Corsair (+5) give him +30 bonus.

If you have some time for testing UndeadHalfOrc, you could check this more careful than I.