Revolutionary Idea: Remove PoI's from H4

[csarmi]

csarmi:

1. I had no idea that people who play in SP are n00bs, oh my godly MP player!

First of all, I never called SP'ers n00bs, YOU did. But yes, lots of them are. (99% of them has low knowledge of the game, and about 1/3 of those thinks he knows how to play well - in my book n00b = he is a poor player AND he thinks he's great)

I was a n00b before I started playing MP actually.

2. There can be 2 different H4 files: one for SP and one for MP (like TE now). One has POI and the another not. And mapmakers can still put POI in their maps.

I can't see the point. When you play in single, you play by whatever rules you impose yourself. If you want to play without PoI, sure, go on! Mapmakers can already control if you're given PoI's, if they want to... so - what for? Also it takes 2-3 mins of extra work for a mapmaker to put a script that asks you at gamestart whether you wanna play w/o PoI's or not. And dont even mentione original maps for they all suck bigtime (gameplay and mapmaker point of view).

[Akul]

First of all, I never called SP'ers n00bs, YOU did. But yes, lots of them are. (99% of them has low knowledge of the game, and about 1/3 of those thinks he knows how to play well - in my book n00b = he is a poor player AND he thinks he's great)

I was a n00b before I started playing MP actually.

What?! I said that I play the game great?! When?! I want to see it
And I did play MP with my friends though hamachi few times. Again without PoI
Good days while I had times.

I can't see the point. When you play in single, you play by whatever rules you impose yourself. If you want to play without PoI, sure, go on!

I have no problems with that. But from my experience, 80% of other players don't play by their own rules... even when a game is made for not using a feature.

Mapmakers can already control if you're given PoI's, if they want to... so - what for? Also it takes 2-3 mins of extra work for a mapmaker to put a script that asks you at gamestart whether you wanna play w/o PoI's or not.

In that case you lose a precious slot in market!

[csarmi]

What?! I said that I play the game great?! When?! I want to see it
And I did play MP with my friends though hamachi few times. Again without PoI
Good days while I had times.

I don't know if I've been talking to you (or about you) at all.

But as soon as someone starts a topic and say PoI should be removed - and doesn't include a long list on how that would affect balance, what else to change, etc, etc, he sounds like someone who thinks he knows... While it is apparent he doesn't. Sounds like clear n00b to me (note here that I don't even know who started the topic nor do I care.

[Yurian Stonebow]

I politely ask people to re-read my posts since there seems to be much in my posts that some certain people here have missed... I can't find a single quote from myself claiming superior knowledge over Heroes IV game mechanics. Nor do I claim to be Master strategist or someone whose influence over the decisions of the Equilibris Team really meant something. Nor do I "force" my ideas and suggestions to anyone.

Furthermore I very well know for a fact that the Equilibris Team doesn't have access into the source code of Heroes IV. Wouldn't they already have changed the game drastically had they possessed the vital information? In addition, I over and over again called myself Novice in what comes to Heroes IV and a Novice is hardly a person who knows every detail about the game.

It is quite clear to me that there might be some people who have been in and around Celestialheavens.com before their time of official registration. Perhaps they didn't feel like signing in before the time that shows in their profile? In addition I would be thankful if someone explained me the word "n00b". Is this correct English? Is it English at all? Boy, I need to take more English language courses...






Yurian

[Metathron]

"n00b" means 'newbie' in the vernacular of pimply under-aged geeks, or so I've heard.

[csarmi]

Revolutionary Idea: Remove PoI's from H4

To reply in short: yes, too revolutionary to implement.... in other words, too many things would change, and not into the direction you would probably like it to, as explained in my above posts.

n00b means someone who has apparently low skills in a game AND with a too big mouth for his skill (cant explain it better, this isn't meant to sound rude, excuse my english)

a typical n00b is a wizard apprentice who thinks he knows everything and blows himself up when he tries to impress his friends

You certainly don't fall into this category with your humble starting post, but after that some posters or posts (may include yours too, didnt really folllow who posted what) are dangerously close

[HodgePodge]

Lucky for me I already created my own Potion Merchant Quest Hut. In a recent campaign I played, which was created in the original HoMM 4, I was required to buy a potion from a town which no longer sold that particular potion in the Equilibris mod. So I had to create a Quest Hut which sold that potion to continue on with the campaign. Later, I decided to have my Potion Merchant Quest Hut sell every potion in the game.

[Chorus]

Lucky for me I already created my own Potion Merchant Quest Hut. In a recent campaign I played, which was created in the original HoMM 4, I was required to buy a potion from a town which no longer sold that particular potion in the Equilibris mod. So I had to create a Quest Hut which sold that potion to continue on with the campaign. Later, I decided to have my Potion Merchant Quest Hut sell every potion in the game.

HP has observed and solved a hiccup caused by EQ changing towns' potion lineups. Is there a list of maps/campaigns with quests requiring specific potions so we know what to change? Better yet, can the EQ Team or someone else come up with a quicker/more universal solution than HP's?

@HP
Until then, would you be so kind as to disclose to those of us too lazy to crack open the editor how to script your potion shack?

[HodgePodge]

Lucky for me I already created my own Potion Merchant Quest Hut. In a recent campaign I played, which was created in the original HoMM 4, I was required to buy a potion from a town which no longer sold that particular potion in the Equilibris mod. So I had to create a Quest Hut which sold that potion to continue on with the campaign. Later, I decided to have my Potion Merchant Quest Hut sell every potion in the game.

HP has observed and solved a hiccup caused by EQ changing towns' potion lineups. Is there a list of maps/campaigns with quests requiring specific potions so we know what to change? Better yet, can the EQ Team or someone else come up with a quicker/more universal solution than HP's?

@HP
Until then, would you be so kind as to disclose to those of us too lazy to crack open the editor how to script your potion shack?

Sure, easy. If I, a lowly end-user can figure out how to do a simple Potion Merchant Quest Hut, anyone can.

In the Heroes IV Map Editor:

• - Pick a model of Quest Hut to your liking
  - Click "Triggered Script" Tab
  - Choose "Sequence"
  - Click "New"
  - Choose "Ask Question"
  - Type: "Would you like to buy an "X" Potion for "Y" Gold?" (X = Type of Potion, Y = Amount of Gold you choose)
  - If Yes, Choose "Take Materials" (Y = Amount of Gold)
  - Choose "Give Artifact" (X = Type of Potion)
  - If No, Choose "Do Nothing". (This is already the default setting, so you don't really have to do anything here.)

Repeat by clicking "New" for each Potion type you want your Potion Merchant to have for sale. You'll need to change the Potion Type and Gold Amount in each of the Questions, Take Materials and Give Artifacts for each Potion type you want to appear in your Quest Hut.

Place your Potion Merchant Quest Hut on any map and while playing the game, have a Hero or Creature approach the Quest Hut and buy any potion(s) available.

I know it looks complicated all written out but it's really simple … really.

[wimfrits]

@HodgePodge

Not that much of a problem for an honest player, but you do know that you can buy an infinite amount of potions from this quest hut if you have zero gold?

[HodgePodge]

@HodgePodge

Not that much of a problem for an honest player, but you do know that you can buy an infinite amount of potions from this quest hut if you have zero gold?

Yes, I do. Since I'm not too savvy about doing more complex scripts, I didn't/couldn't figure out how to script the Conditional actions/requirements for gold or other restrictions. Anyhow, I really just did this Quest Hut so I could continue on with a campaign scenario which required a potion type that wasn't sold in my castle(s) with the Equilibris Mod.

[jeff]

@HodgePodge

Not that much of a problem for an honest player, but you do know that you can buy an infinite amount of potions from this quest hut if you have zero gold?

Yes, I do. Since I'm not too savvy about doing more complex scripts, I didn't/couldn't figure out how to script the Conditional actions/requirements for gold or other restrictions. Anyhow, I really just did this Quest Hut so I could continue on with a campaign scenario which required a potion type that wasn't sold in my castle(s) with the Equilibris Mod.

All that is required is to make one change of if player has x-amount of gold then ask Do you wish to buy the y-potion, and do that for each potion you wish to offer. x=amount of gold need for potion y.

I saw that in the hut you sent me and those where the changes I made, that way the player can continue to buy potions as long as they have enough gold.

[HodgePodge]

All that is required is to make one change of if player has x-amount of gold then ask Do you wish to buy the y-potion, and do that for each potion you wish to offer. x=amount of gold need for potion y.

I saw that in the hut you sent me and those where the changes I made, that way the player can continue to buy potions as long as they have enough gold.

All those "If-And-Or-Else" scripts confuse me so much that I just had to leave them out altogether. Anyhow Jeff, I'd love to see a copy of your Potion Merchant Quest Hut with the changes. Maybe I could learn a thing or two.

[Le_Faucheur]

I built the same thing but it sold magic staffs

[jeff]

All those "If-And-Or-Else" scripts confuse me so much that I just had to leave them out altogether. Anyhow Jeff, I'd love to see a copy of your Potion Merchant Quest Hut with the changes. Maybe I could learn a thing or two.

I tell you what, I put it in map 4 and you'll see it when I ship that to you.

[HodgePodge]

All those "If-And-Or-Else" scripts confuse me so much that I just had to leave them out altogether. Anyhow Jeff, I'd love to see a copy of your Potion Merchant Quest Hut with the changes. Maybe I could learn a thing or two.

I tell you what, I put it in map 4 and you'll see it when I ship that to you.

Oh goody! I like that.

[Omega]

In Heroes IV we have an extra unit on the battlefield, The Hero. These Hero-Units are quite capable of destroying entire armies all by themselves, often with such a power that having regular units in your army is not needed anymore. My question is, what is all this? Gods of Might and Magic?

The idea of a single hero soundly defeating Dozens of Dragons is absurd. Really. In my opinon, having the hero directly taking part in combat was one of the most unbalancing decisions ever made by the late 3DO. This is what ruined the entire balance of HoMM IV. There is no effective counterforce to the Hero-God tactics*.

@ Yurian Stonebow

I'm agree with you for 2 reasons and those changes can be made.

First reason is that AI cant use those at all. Only once per battle and thats just because Equilibris Team forced AI to use(Equilibris Team did a good thing).
Second reason is that makes the game very absurd.


Well, I propose 3 things:

1. Potion of Imortality to have a price around 3000-5000 gold per bottle;
2. Potion of Immortality to be cast only before of battle and the price to remain the same;
3. Remove Potion of Immortality, but heroes to gain more hp per level. Instead of 10, I suggest around 15-20.

Please post some ideas

[SoRHunter]

In Heroes IV we have an extra unit on the battlefield, The Hero. These Hero-Units are quite capable of destroying entire armies all by themselves, often with such a power that having regular units in your army is not needed anymore. My question is, what is all this? Gods of Might and Magic?

The idea of a single hero soundly defeating Dozens of Dragons is absurd. Really. In my opinon, having the hero directly taking part in combat was one of the most unbalancing decisions ever made by the late 3DO. This is what ruined the entire balance of HoMM IV. There is no effective counterforce to the Hero-God tactics*.

The hero unit is one of the best aspects of Heroes IV. Why did they remain in the shadows casting spells whenever their first unit had a go? Why were they immortal (as long as they had creatures)? Why weren't they able to join another hero and combine their efforts to your ultimate victory? Weren't they more godly before?

While being very powerful in late game, heroes do have drawbacks: they have limited slots for abilities (will you take Scouting or Nobility over Tactics or Magic?), they need to get lots of experience before they reach "godly" strength and they fill one spot in your army (which could be used with other creatures).

And there are some strategies against all-powerful heroes: they have only limited retaliation (strike them with bandits - cannon fodder - before hitting with dragons); try magic - I hear it does wonders!; or get some powerful heroes yourself.

@ Yurian Stonebow

I'm agree with you for 2 reasons and those changes can be made.

First reason is that AI cant use those at all. Only once per battle and thats just because Equilibris Team forced AI to use(Equilibris Team did a good thing).
Second reason is that makes the game very absurd.


Well, I propose 3 things:

1. Potion of Imortality to have a price around 3000-5000 gold per bottle;
2. Potion of Immortality to be cast only before of battle and the price to remain the same;
3. Remove Potion of Immortality, but heroes to gain more hp per level. Instead of 10, I suggest around 15-20.

Please post some ideas

1- The price increase would only limit the amount of potions in the early game (when it is most needed). In late game, I usually have tons of gold - I can buy as much as I want.
2- Those who have Guardian Angel spell or Divine Intervention spell would have an unfair advantage, as they are able to cast those spells as much as they like. Even Angels would be a lot more valuable.
3- I wouldn't disable Potions of Immortality. That would make some campaigns very difficult (if not impossible - think of Waerjack) and no one would be able to train new heroes in middle-to-late game - "strike that wimp asap!".

I believe the problem resides in the [lack of] AI. But it is really hard to change it.

[Omega]

@SoRHunter

Well, there is a reason for this and I feel the same that must be changed. Right now is very unbalance.

I posted some solutions and from all that, I prefer that the potion to be cast before battle.

I dont have time for this change, so wont be an update for this yet.

[Metathron]

SoRHunter, what a well thought out and well-reasoned post, I agree fully and completely.