Planning to Buy ‘Tribes of the East?’

[Wolfsburg]

A master greater than Kasparov? It would be a waste of time not to promote him right away, after testing him against the chess-icon of all times.

To think: If they created a machine designed to calculate distance and wind to shoot footballs preciser than Ronaldinho, he would still be a superb player and would lose by no means respect from his fans.

Cars also run faster than 100m champions, tractor pull much more weight and computers make more calcules per second. This doesnt make human beings less spectacular, independent from conditions.

Now, back to the question. Why cant I play Deep blue on the battle screen of HOMM? Because its bad publicity for Ubisoft? Because its too hard to develop? Because no one demmands such a feature? All the previous answers?

[ThunderTitan]

It's because they can't come to your house after each battle to reprogram the AI.

That and the fact that a regular PC doesn't have the power of a supercomputer.

Deep Blue, with its capability of evaluating 200 million positions per second,
the program ran on a personal computer containing two Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs, capable of evaluating only 8 million positions per second,

@MW:

Before the second match, the chess knowledge of the program was fine tuned by grandmaster Joel Benjamin. The opening library was provided by grandmasters Miguel Illescas, John Fedorowicz and Nick De Firmian. Deep Blue's programmers tailored the computer program to beat Kasparov by studying in great detail prior games Kasparov had played.

[MistWeaver]

Now, back to the question. Why cant I play Deep blue on the battle screen of HOMM? Because its bad publicity for Ubisoft? Because its too hard to develop? Because no one demmands such a feature? All the previous answers?

And I thought I was clear enough about that ..


EDIT:

@TT, I got it. But that was not in the middle of a match

[ThunderTitan]

Check my previous post.

[MistWeaver]

Allright, even if consider that it cheated. The point wasnt about this. It was about that strong chess AI is easier to create than strong Heroes AI.

[ThunderTitan]

Like duh... especially since there are no Heroes playing supercomputers.

[PhoenixReborn]

I remember reading a dev comment on the age of wonders sm forums that basically said "I could give you an incredible chess-like a.i. if personal computers had the proccessing power to run them". In other words the technology hasn't caught up yet.

For the heroes a.i. I want it to stop doing obviously stupid things, not crush me mercilessy on easy level with no resources.

[MistWeaver]

Like duh... especially since there are no Heroes playing supercomputers.

Im sure 99% of players that dissatisfied with Heroes weak AI, never will win vs a good chess AI on 10 year old Personal Computer

And Heroes global map AI can not be developed using same principle. Why all of you ignoring this ?

[ThunderTitan]

Not until they learn the game well enough...

[MistWeaver]

Not until they learn the game well enough...

Learn is not enough here.
Good optimized chess AI can calculate more than one million moves per second, on Pentium 2 (year 1997) You've got to have potential, and many years of practice to compete with that.

[ThunderTitan]

DeepBlue could do 200 million, and still had to cheat.

[MistWeaver]

DeepBlue could do 200 million, and still had to cheat.

I think 99% of HoMM player's are too far (even potentially) from Kasparov skill, so ..

[Ya5MieL]

From time when Kasparov and Deep Blue played, computers calculation possibilities have multiplied at least tenfold,.. and how much did humans advance?

Anyway.. todays processors are quite capable of running UBER-complex AI without breaking a sweat, given that AI is built with care.

[ThunderTitan]

Would you ppl read the damned posts already:

the program ran on a personal computer containing two Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs, capable of evaluating only 8 million positions per second,

And DB had 200 because it was a supercomputer.

[MistWeaver]

We cant do supercomputers anymore ?
And as for software for PC, it can just think a bit longer.

Btw you skipped crucial parts in that quote

Modern chess programs like Rybka, Deep Fritz or Deep Junior are more advanced than the code used on Deep Blue. In a recent match, Deep Fritz vs. Vladimir Kramnik in November 2006, the program ran on a personal computer containing two Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs, capable of evaluating only 8 million positions per second, but searching to an average depth of 17 to 18 ply in the middlegame.

So its 8 millions are not just because its weaker.. its because it has more advanced and thus complex code. But in the end, current chess programs on current PC's are stronger that DeepBlue

[MistWeaver]

Oh.. It looks that I missed that part:

Deep Blue was the 259th most powerful supercomputer, capable of calculating 11.38 gigaflops, although this did not take into account Deep Blue's special-purpose hardware for chess.

So its not that cool, after all. Sandra 2007 shows that my Sempron 2600+ does ~4700 MFLOPS (4.7 gigaflops) with bunch of software on background (was lazy to shut 'em)

And Core 2 Duo E6700 does ~16 gigaflops. I dont think that even with " special-purpose hardware for chess" DP will make that much.

[ThunderTitan]

Modern chess programs like Rybka, Deep Fritz or Deep Junior are more advanced than the code used on Deep Blue. In a recent match, Deep Fritz vs. Vladimir Kramnik in November 2006, the program ran on a personal computer containing two Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs, capable of evaluating only 8 million positions per second, but searching to an average depth of 17 to 18 ply in the middlegame.

So its 8 millions are not just because its weaker.. its because it has more advanced and thus complex code. But in the end, current chess programs on current PC's are stronger that DeepBlue

Where does it say who won?

We cant do supercomputers anymore ?

Yes, you happen to have the money to buy one to play Heroes on?!

[Apocalypse]

Deep Blue just had a huge database of moves that was created with many games of chess played with that computer.

You CAN'T MAKE anything like that in HOMM. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TIME to calculate, it's almost impossible (if we are not in the stage of creating Terminators... ) because there are many variations (armies, random factors, adventure maps, etc...). At least 20 times more complex than a chess game!

Geez, have you any idea on how hard is to make a HoMM AI? Even if you're not a programmer (I am), just try and make some statements like:

if the AI blabla, then the AI blabla, else blabla....

... and you'll see how HARD is to implement a good AI... you'll find things like: "but what if...?" and stuff like that very often.

And finally, after you've spent many months at creating a decent AI, you'll find it 'sucks' in certain cases, and the people will complain about it being stupid and stuff like that.

[MistWeaver]

Where does it say who won?

Who cares ? Im telling you that "Core 2 Duo" is more powerfull that DB

Yes, you happen to have the money to buy one to play Heroes on?!

And as for software for P(ersonal)C(computer), it can just think a bit longer

And most of us, allready have PC that nearly as powerfull (or even more powerfull) than DeepBlue.

Geez, have you any idea on how hard is to make a HoMM AI?

Strong chess AI is much easier to program that strong HoMM AI. Because chess has much narrower game tree complexity.

[King Imp]

My only real problem with the AI is the fact that it seems oblivious to everything around it. Why does it just pass by resources and artifacts just sitting out in the open? It's like it's only goal is to find the shortest route to get directly to you, regardless of anything else on the map. I made a large map (upstairs and down) which had a ton of things to do and explore. 2 months in, two of the factions from up top are already downstairs trying to take over and in the meantime barely anything has been touched in the land they started in.

Personally, aside from a few dumb moves on the battlefield (i.e. Horned Overseers blowing up in the middle of their own troops and none of yours being anywhere near by, Magi shooting their own units standing in front of them, Fortress hero using the Charge rune on their shooters as if extra speed benefits them), I think the AI fights pretty well.