alternative upgrade speculation

[Monteniger]

(it would be hilarious to see Holy Lich )

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. Thanks for the laugh .

Glad you liked it.

Dungeon Renegades
1. Faceless One
2. Blood Cutthroat
3. Minotaur Sentinel
4. Faceless Raider
5. Chaos Hydra
6. Shadow Queen
7. Dark Dragon

You can't change the whole dark elf race and rename it faceless!!! Btw Faceless are in the Angel tier.They are mythic race !!!!


Mythical - really interesting ideas!!!
But considering that Nival is making - don't count on some high intelligence and originality.So,find some similar games and just copy/paste their ideas and voila - you'll get "alternative upgrades" .
Wrights will get some AoW attributes and Fury some Diablo / assassin skills and so on...

[Zamolxis]

Well, if we are to talk hypothetically about how the alternate upgrades should have been, here's how I would have arranged the two alternate line-ups of upgraded creatures:

Haven - The Knights of Light (defensive abilities, good):

1. Pikeman: long spear, can attack creatures one square away, 50% chance of blocking attacks by stoping the attacker in their spear (thus inducing also damage) but only if attacked from the front and only once per round (it's lvl.1 creature after all).
2. Marksman: as it is
3. Squire: as it is (shield bash, shield allies), but without Enraged
4. Royal Griffin: as the Imperial Griffin now, maybe more HP
5. Priest of Light: here I would make big changes. Starting with the basic creature - Priest - which would loose the "No Melee Penalty" and maybe even some Attack points, in exchange for Bless & Prayer as casting spells. The upgraded Priest of Light would also have melee penalty and less attack points, but will be able to cast Haste, Bless & Prayer as mass spells.
6. Paladin: as it is
7. Archangel: Resurrect Once ability changed for Resurrect spell (like H4), with amount of spell points depending on creature stack. What we have now is mindblowingly stupid, with 500 Archangels becoming a boring melee unit only, after resurrecting just 1 Peasant.

Haven - The Renegades (offensive abilities, fanatics):

1. Mercenary: Shield Bash and higher stats
2. Crossbowman: as it is
3. Crusader: Enraged and Cleave
4. Imperial or Battle Griffin: as it is
5. Inquisitor or Zealot. If Inquisitor, still melee penalty, but caster of: Bloodlust, Stone Spikes (or a new similar spell) and various Dark spells (up to the lvl.4 Frenzy & Blindness even). If Zealot, then a reduced number of spells, but No Melee Penalty.
6. Champion: as it is
7. Fallen Angel: as it is

[ThunderTitan]

You can't change the whole dark elf race and rename it faceless!!! Btw Faceless are in the Angel tier.They are mythic race !!!!

They can always say that they're bodiless and have to posses ppl, which leaves them weak.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

First off a Unicorn with wings should be a Unisus *grins*. Anyhow, you know what time it is again?? Duck and cover, it's time for Mytical to unless her creativity. Run while you still can.

Actually, I have most often heard a winged unicorn / horned pegasus called an allocorn.

[Monteniger]

They can always say that they're bodiless and have to posses ppl, which leaves them weak.

Guess you're right , but if they already fought with Angels it would be really stupid for them to posses ... But we'll see.
I would really like to see them as tier 7 neutral.

[ThunderTitan]

Maybe the angels destroyed their material bodies.... and the lvl7 could be a full Faceless with its original body.

[Mytical]

Since I am bored (again) here is some Inferno. Starting with traditional 'evil' (though evil is relative).

Again no particular order.
Mane - Instead of drawing mana from enemy increases damage of your spells by .1% per unit. 10 would be 1%, 100 would be 10%, ect.

Barbed Demon - any unit attacking this one takes a small portion of the damage they inflict back. How much depends on no of enemy units, no of Barbed demons, and ammount of damage done. Instead of exploding they can fire their barbs (which negates their damage shield) and hit all nearby units.

Chaos Hound - looses multi enemy hit, but gains double attack and keeps no-retal. Also each consectutive double attack on a creature increases damage.

Succubi Matron - Forgoing the advanced ranged training these creatures have focused on magic and melee instead. (they loose the ability to retaliate to ranged attacks but gain flying). What is more, their touch channels the spells they have. During melee combat they strike with their claws and apon contact also unleash a random Destructive spell. (If aoe they and allies still suffer from the affects).

Thantos - these creatures have not developed the fear of their kin, but instead have developed a deep hatred and rage. Frenzy, rage (two attacks no retal) and trample (stuns opponit on rare occasions).

Pit Master - Instead of casting Meteor Shower, ect, they have opted for the element of suprise. They cast Ice related spells.

Arch Demons - All demons get a +2 init, +1 speed, +1 damage..including themselves. They can not teleport like the stronger Archdevils, or summon Pit creatures. Instead they fly and cast Magic.


The 'nicer' type demon alts will be next.

[Monteniger]

Maybe the angels destroyed their material bodies.... and the lvl7 could be a full Faceless with its original body.

Cool thinking. But I'm just against losing Dark Elf race.

[bahaa]

I think it might be something like this:

-Shadow Dragon: Black Dragon/Red Dragon (with dark red color)

*Red Dragon is immune to fire and has less hp, same damage, but higher attack and defense values.

-Green Dragon: Emerald Dragon/Gold Dragon

*Gold Dragons are immune to spell levels 1-4, have more hp, same damage, lower speed, same attack and defense values.

-Bone Dragon: Spectral Dragon/Ghost Dragon

*Ghost Dragons receive 50% less damage from ranged attacks, but don't have the ability to weaken enemy units and have slightly lower initiative.

-Hydra: Deep Hydra/Chaos Hydra

*Chaos Hydra: They don't have regeneration ability, they have less hp, but they have higher initiative, speed, and damage.

-Mage: ArchMage/BattleMage (has already been mentioned)

*BattleMage: They don't cast spells, their ranged attack is more poweful.

-Shadow Witch: Shadow Matriarch/Medusa

*Medusa: A cursed witch who can petrify enemies. Ranged attacker, petrify ability, no melee penalty. They look like the medusa from Heroes 3

-Jinn: Jinn Sultan/Efreeti

*Efreeti: Not a spell caster. Fire Shield, Fire spell immunity.

-Fire Dragon: Magma Dragon/Crystal Dragon

*Crystal Dragon: Just like magma dragon, but no magma shield, lower hp, generates crystal, attacks single target, much higher speed and initiative, slightly higher attack.

-Skeleton: Skeleton Archer/Skeleton Warrior

Skeleton Warrior: Undead, 50% damage reduction from ranged attacks, higher stats than ordinary skeleton.



Maybe, we will have power liches, pegasi, sharpshooters, gogs, incubi, ghouls, vampire elders (aoe life drain ability and aoe heal, but lower initiative and speed values, so vampire lords are better at healing themselves and faster at engaging in battle).

[Darkstroem]

@ bahaa: I really love most of your proposals! (Except for the medusa and the crystal dragon's crystal generation ability)

[Marzhin]

I believe there will be no big changes of the 3D models, so I doubt the unicorns will get wings or the matriarch snake tails. I think we'll see things more like the Djinn > Efreet : a few changes here and there (different hat maybe), different texture and colour, and that's it (at least for the purely graphical side).

[Starbatron]

I agree. I doubt there will be major changes to any appearances of creatures, aside from cosmetic aspects that are easily changed. That being said, I think Bahaa is trying to pull too much into the game from previous HoMM games that simply won't happen (mind you, I am not saying I would be opposed to bringing more back from previous heroes games, but that Ubival isn't like to pull so much back in simply to please us, or at least, they never worried about that before ) More than likely the changes will be in the area of abilities and stats rather than appearances and wholesale creature imports from previous HoMM games, at least as far as the alternative creatures go.

[bahaa]

Yeah you are right

These are just what I'd wish for, though I think the most possible one is the Green Dragon>Gold Dragon.

[Adicto]

NECROPOLIS:

Alt.level 1- Skeleton Warrior
Skeleton Warriors are the old bones of fallen veteran soldiers, animated with magic to serve the necromancers.
Attack - 2
Defence - 2
Damage - 2-3
Initiative - 10
Speed - 5
Hit Points - 5
Mana - 0
Shoots - 0
Abilities: Undead

Alt.level 2- Mutant Zombie
Mutant Zombies are rotten corpses who suffered mutations due to the large exposure to dark magic.
Attack - 2
Defence - 2
Damage - 2-3
Initiative - 8
Speed - 5
Hit Points - 17
Mana - 0
Shoots - 0
Abilities: Undead, Resilient

Alt.level 3- Banshee
Banshees are restless spirits of dead women whose attack is a deadly scream.
Attack - 4
Defence - 4
Damage - 4-6
Initiative - 10
Speed - 4
Hit Points - 19
Mana - 0
Shoots - 6
Abilities: Undead, Incorporeal, Shooter

Alt.level 4- Vampire Champion
Vampire Champions are vampires trained for war who fight wearing heavy armour, so they are slow and cannot teleport nor attack without suffering a retaliation, but are tougher and deadlier.
Attack - 12
Defence - 10
Damage - 7-11
Initiative - 9
Speed - 5
Hit Points - 45
Mana - 0
Shoots - 0
Abilities: Undead, Life Drain, Cleave

Alt.level 5- Huecuva
Huecuvas are undead priests whose bonds with asha are stronger than death. They lack the magic skill to attack from distance, but they can casts spells forever as they are feeded by their almighty god.
Attack - 16
Defence - 20
Damage - 12-17
Initiative - 10
Speed - 4
Hit Points - 60
Mana - 0
Shoots - 0
Abilities: Undead, Large Creature, Dark Powers, Caster (Adv.Teleport, Adv.Confusion, Adv.Decay)

Alt.level 6- Haunter
Hate, fury, bloodlust, those are the only feelings who haunters feel. They are restless spirits of humans who died in an especially violent, unfair, or humiliating way, so now they seek revenge against life itself. Their resentment is so strong that every living being is closer to death when a haunter is near.
Attack - 30
Defence - 20
Damage - 12-15
Initiative - 10
Speed - 5
Hit Points - 110
Mana - 0
Shoots - 0
Abilities: Undead, Large Creature, Teleport, Cursing Aura

Alt.level 7- Dracolich
Dracolichs are neither dead nor alive, they live in both realms at the same time due to prolonged exposure to dark magic.
Attack - 27
Defence - 30
Damage - 25-30
Initiative - 11
Speed - 7
Hit Points - 160
Mana - 0
Shoots - 0
Abilities: Undead, Large Creature, Flyer, Transdimensional

New abilities explanation:
Cursing Aura --> All enemies positioned on tiles adjacent to this creature take double damage from physical attacks
Dark Powers --> This creature casts spells for 0 mana cost
Resilient --> This creature is immune to ranged attacks
Transdimensional --> when the creature receives the Defend command, it turns incorporeal and gets unlimited retaliation until next turn.

[Starbatron]

I like most of the ideas here, most definitely. The banshee is especially exciting, as it makes them worth the money simply for another shooter. I am not sure about the vampire champions, though. Certainly no retaliation and teleporting outweight the cleave ability, at least in my book. And the skeleton warrior? No additional ability and only slightly better stats = a no sell for me. I'll stick with the shooter version. Still, alot of good changes, and the haunter and dracolich are both interesting. The transdimentional ability is intriguing, and I think the haunters may finally be worth the price, with the teleport and cursing aura abilities. Perhaps the names need a little finesse, though

[borco]

I like the skeleton warior idea,
always asked myself why i have to have archers when I can have melee unit with more hp and higher initiative....
so this one will be most probably implemented...

[erased. over. out]

NECROPOLIS:

Some excellent ideas there Adicto. Hopefully the actual alternate Necromancer upgrades on the new expansion will be half as creative.

[Adicto]

I am not sure about the vampire champions, though. Certainly no retaliation and teleporting outweight the cleave ability, at least in my book.

Well, I think the idea is to make a good combination of creatures instead of picking the "best" upgrade of every tier. For example: Vampire Champions are slow, sure, but if you teleport them just behind the enemy shooter thanks to Huecuvas, the enemy will have to face an absolute melee nightmare to be able shoot at you.

Perhaps the names need a little finesse, though

Sure, those were just the first names which crossed my mind.

so this one will be most probably implemented...

I agree, skeleton warriors surely will be implemented as the basic creature is melee oriented like in previous HoMM games.

Some excellent ideas there Adicto. Hopefully the actual alternate Necromancer upgrades on the new expansion will be half as creative

Thanks. I guess we can enjoy daydreaming till the sad reality destroys our wet dreams lol.

[Starbatron]

On the one hand, there is something in teleporting them, but you could just as easily teleport the vampire lords there, and the question then becomes, which is more useful behind enemy lines, no retal or cleave? Especially as you deal with the upper tier shooters like Elder druids and what not that can pack a good punch with their retaliation. While it may turn out that the cleave and slightly better stats initially does more damage, the no retal means less damage received as well. I guess it's a trade off a player needs to weigh.

[watcher83]

evil sylvan uprades

1 - Kersyl's wrath
2 - Vile Dancer
3 - Sharpshooter
4 - Enchanter
5 - Dark Unicorn
6 - Plague Treant
7 - Poison Dragon