Of Necropolis and "unbeatableness"

[Derek]

Well there are other things. Power Liches are fragile and extremely valuable. They're also difficult to deploy. I believe very many races can take on Necropolis at the Ranged game and score quite well:

CASTLE: Like Bandobras Took said.
RAMPART: Grand Elves are very powerful, and Gold Dragons can perform hit-and-runs on the Power Liches.
TOWER: Nothing here - Tower has the most powerful Ranged units in the game.
DUNGEON: Black Dragons can hit-and-run and the Warlock can cast some powerful DD on the Power Liches.
STRONGHOLD: Unfortunate. Stronghold has the stronger ranged unit in Cylops Kings, but Stronghold won't often get them. Stronghold will probably try to engage Necropolis in melee, banking on higher stats and brute force.
FORTRESS: Fortress has it tough. Bandobras Took can probably tell you a lot more about Fortress vs. Necropolis though...
INFERNO: With two very fast units to block the Power Liches, Inferno should not have a problem.
CONFLUX: With two very powerful ranged stacks as well as the king of hit-and-run in Phoenixes, Conflux has no problems.

What do you mean by "difficult to deploy"?

Most of your town strategies seem to be set on the idea that I do not guard my liches at all. Aside from breath damage from the dragons I cannot think of any reason why I could not move my wraith stacks to guard the liches from harm. The enemy would be forced to either waste and attack or spell to remove this obstacle. If the enemy moves in too close then I can slaughter them with the skels. And if the the enemies ranged units are going to be a problem, like Grand Elves, then why couldn't I just use my vamp lords on them? Unit stacks like that just feed a powerful killing machine. I doubt that the Rampart would be brining along their Dendroids, and I think that most towns would move across the field to engage the Necro because of the cloud damage.

I will concede that th Necro does not have much hope against Castle or Conflux. However, I think it has been established that they are too good as is.

[csarmi]

Well I think Necro kills anyone unless on very specific maps.

[Derek]

Well I think Necro kills anyone unless on very specific maps.

Such as...? Seems as though the skels would be good at any time.

[SmokingBarrel]

Just can't get all of you.I played Necropolis many times and after most battles you only raise 10 or so skeletons. How can you amass that big army of skeletons?

[Nucleon]

Just can't get all of you.I played Necropolis many times and after most battles you only raise 10 or so skeletons. How can you amass that big army of skeletons?

As soon as that, you really need to focus on it. That means you bypass tempting skill for your hero (such as "Earth Magic" or "Logistics") to raise Necromancy, in which you should chose a specialist. Same thing for the towns; If you focus on building your 3 skeletons buildings and the Amplifier intead of other dwellings, you might do it...

... He guess.

[LordScimitar]

First off, don't fight high level stacks. Fight low level stacks.

Abandoned mines are also great for skeleton growing. As are any level 1 creature dwelling that you get them for free.

Raise your necromancy skill asap. Get the building that gets +10%. With expert necromancy, and the building, 40% are raised. Its pretty easy to find stacks of 100 level 1 creatures. That's forty skeletons right there. That's a week's worth in one fight.

Use Vidominia or Isra as your heroes and that number increases even more. And Dead Man's boots, after the two movement boosting items, might just be the most common artifact in existance on most maps. Actually, most of the +% to Necromancy artifacts are common.

Amassing hundreds of skeletons a week is really quite simple. And, if you can get it, abuse Animate Dead.

[Banedon]

At the start of of a game, they're among the most fragile armies. If you can put your hand around the Necromancer's scrawny necks in the first month, they're pretty much powerless. After that, it depends on the lenght of the map, the wandering creatures therein, and the artefacts that are going to be found.

If you attack Necropolis in the first month, you're going to eat a whole lot of damage. Necropolis absolutely should have Dread Knights, Power Liches and Vampire Lords come the start of the third week, and with these units they dominate the middle game.

Animas (Golems, elementals, gargoyles) are best to deal with the Necropolis' nastier sides; Vampiric drain, morale and insignificant "Death Ripple" spell.

Death Ripple? Death Ripple is an insignificant spell indeed; no self-respecting Necro would cast that as a mainstay spell.

Conflux is not overpowered.It is special,if you want.Sure,it is cheap and fast and gets magical skills on a plate,but it is very connected and weak so that compensates.

Conflux is ridiculously overpowered. They have some impossible advantages: Storm Elementals are extremely powerful low-level shooters, Conflux gets to use the Magic University, the Pyre is way too easy to build and Phoenixes multiply at x4. Just consider the quadruple growth of Phoenixes and you'll note how impossible it is to fight Conflux.

What do you mean by "difficult to deploy"?

As in difficult to reach. Their dwellings require some heavy resources - Sulphur and Mage Guild level 2. You can probably get them by the first week, but to start using Power Liches will surely delay your Vampire Lords and / or Dread Knights.

They're also fragile and very often targetted by neutral creeps, too.

Most of your town strategies seem to be set on the idea that I do not guard my liches at all. Aside from breath damage from the dragons I cannot think of any reason why I could not move my wraith stacks to guard the liches from harm. The enemy would be forced to either waste and attack or spell to remove this obstacle. If the enemy moves in too close then I can slaughter them with the skels.

You should guard your Liches, just as anyone would guard their Ranged stacks. But what I'd do is wait, attack then retreat in the next round. This can seriously diminish the Liches' numbers while keeping the harassing units out of range of the Skeletons Warriors.

And if the the enemies ranged units are going to be a problem, like Grand Elves, then why couldn't I just use my vamp lords on them?

Because the Vampire Lords are not very fast units, and they will inevitably get ganged up upon to death. If you pressure the Grand Elves, then you will need your Dread Knights and Ghost Dragons too.

A battle between Rampart and Necropolis isn't a foregone conclusion, but it is quite complex too.

Its pretty easy to find stacks of 100 level 1 creatures. That's forty skeletons right there. That's a week's worth in one fight.

Eh? I find it quite rare to meet a throng of any level 1 creature. Often the ones guarding the mines aren't more than "Lots", and "Horde" is already uncommon.

And Dead Man's boots, after the two movement boosting items, might just be the most common artifact in existance on most maps. Actually, most of the +% to Necromancy artifacts are common.

You can't rely on getting them, however.

Amassing hundreds of skeletons a week is really quite simple. And, if you can get it, abuse Animate Dead.

Can you post a savegame where you have some stupendous amounts of Skeletons early? Short of the campaign where your quest is to raise Skeletons, of couse.

[csarmi]

Well I think Necro kills anyone unless on very specific maps.

Such as...? Seems as though the skels would be good at any time.

Well, unless you can get enough skeletons. For any reason.
If you do have food, however, then you can raise all of them at the 2nd-3rd week. Use 2-3 necromancers with vampires.

And you may consider getting Isra. Tough choice, cause Galthran can be deadly too.

It all depends on the map and whether you can afford leaving stacks of level 1's around while you build up necromancy and they build up numbers.

[Banedon]

You mean you leave the Sawmill and Ore Pits and assorted mines for the sake of Necromancy? Pardon me if I feel a little incredulous at it, since I'd imagine getting Dread Knights early is much more important. After all, how can 50 Skeleton Warriors compare to 2 Dread Knights?

[DaemianLucifer]

You mean you leave the Sawmill and Ore Pits and assorted mines for the sake of Necromancy? Pardon me if I feel a little incredulous at it, since I'd imagine getting Dread Knights early is much more important. After all, how can 50 Skeleton Warriors compare to 2 Dread Knights?

You dont leave them,you just pick them up with another hero.But your main hero focuses purely on necromancy.

[Derek]

As in difficult to reach. Their dwellings require some heavy resources - Sulphur and Mage Guild level 2. You can probably get them by the first week, but to start using Power Liches will surely delay your Vampire Lords and / or Dread Knights.

They're also fragile and very often targetted by neutral creeps, too.

Power Liches, and liches for that matter, do not require the Mage Guild level 2. I play on expert, and am able to get the sulfur that I need in the second week. Having trouble getting liches could be an issue on impossible, but not anyplace else.

I do not find it necesary as the necro to buy anything but skels in the first week or so. I am playing as Thant, but even as Isra/Galthran I get so many it doesn't matter.

Creeps seem to go after the skels more often with me...

I never had trouble getting such a large amount of skels, I suppose I do abuse animate dead though. Most maps have enough weak stacks guarding a chest or two so that you can just slaughter them and move on to the next battle.

[IceCold2000]

I once thought of the Necropolis as a pretty decent town (because I was playing on the easiest level), but I think this town is the worst in my opinion (unless you can find the legions of creatures that you need for skeletons and hope the enemy ignores you for 4 months).

Only the Vampire Lords, Power Liches and Dread Knights are worth buying.

[Banedon]

You dont leave them,you just pick them up with another hero.But your main hero focuses purely on necromancy.

You shouldn't be able to take the sawmill without destroying the neutral stack guarding it, but if you destroy it you won't be letting it grow.

Power Liches, and liches for that matter, do not require the Mage Guild level 2. I play on expert, and am able to get the sulfur that I need in the second week. Having trouble getting liches could be an issue on impossible, but not anyplace else.

Ack I mistook it with Heroes 2. Power Liches are godly expensive though, and somehow I still feel they are difficult to reach. They also keep getting targeted - if I attack a Castle with my full army, I can predict the arrow turrets will aim at my Power Liches.

[Derek]

Ack I mistook it with Heroes 2. Power Liches are godly expensive though, and somehow I still feel they are difficult to reach. They also keep getting targeted - if I attack a Castle with my full army, I can predict the arrow turrets will aim at my Power Liches.

No problem. They were crazily exspensive in H2. In H3, however, they are quite easy to reach. The sulfur is not too difficult to reach, and the ore should not be too much of a problem if you know how to manage your resources. I all seriousness, they are suprisingly easy to get considering their damage output.

The towers go after your Liches? They always go after my skels, and I do mean always. It seems like a waste of time for them to do so though.

I seem to get teleport frequently as the necro, and this lends itself to just zapping them skels across the board so that they can, literally, anihilate an enemy shooter stack. With them gone the liches will force the enemy to draw nearer, and nearer...

Getting skels is just a matter of going after every neutral and not letting any of them flee from your mighty army. They'll come to appreciate it in time. I tend to invade my opponents quickly, first month or so, and the amount of skels you'll get from that is more than sufficient.

[SmokingBarrel]

It'll only be about 400 skeletons or so after a month, won't it? The towers usually shoot the liches, unless the castle does not stand a chance in defending. Thats always the case right? If your army is too intimidating, I think the towers will shoot the skeletons instead.

[Banedon]

Tell you what. We'll test it. You know the map "All For One"? If you play Blue and take Necropolis (and Isra or Vidomina or Thant or Galthran), how many Skeletons can you amass by the third week?

I'll go through two weeks too as Red, and I'll see how powerful an army I can get.

[Derek]

Tell you what. We'll test it. You know the map "All For One"? If you play Blue and take Necropolis (and Isra or Vidomina or Thant or Galthran), how many Skeletons can you amass by the third week?

I'll go through two weeks too as Red, and I'll see how powerful an army I can get.

Sure, I'll try it out tomorrow. Should be interesting to see how many I could get...

However, what about the chance of me starting as Thant and me being able to recruit Galthran?

[SmokingBarrel]

Chances would be quite low. How about you add um...50 to the total amount?

[csarmi]

Tell you what. We'll test it. You know the map "All For One"? If you play Blue and take Necropolis (and Isra or Vidomina or Thant or Galthran), how many Skeletons can you amass by the third week?

I'll go through two weeks too as Red, and I'll see how powerful an army I can get.

I'll might try it. One thing is sure: on a map with lots of towns necro is unstoppable.

[Derek]

After two weeks, day 7 of week 2, I had 210 skeletons. I played as Thant, but did not manage to get Galthran as a tavern hero. Probably could have done better, but this is a good idea of how many you can get in such a small amount of time.