H3: Are certain heroes too good?

[HodgePodge]

I'll take that "overpowered" Hero, Solmyr anytime.

[Gaidal Cain]

In other words: your brother needs to suck it up, lose honorably, learn from his failure and deal with this disadvantage in better fashion next time, or do better in other areas so that this advantage is not enough to give you victory. (Or he could just choose Thant next time himself!)

Well, as much as I agree with the conclusion, I don't think the earlier comparison was fair. Thant was not just a random event- it was a starting advantage, perhaps akin to one team starting with two points more. It wouldn't have been impossible to overcome, but complaining about it should be done before the game, not after.

[DaemianLucifer]

Having a better start isnt the necessity to win a map.Give some newbie a grail right from the start and I believe most of us will still be able to defeat him.You have to know how to use the start youre given.Thats why I hate most of those rules since they were usually made by people that know of no other way to counter certain tactics.

[Gaidal Cain]

Naah. It's one thing to be able to overtake a newbie with a grail, another to overtake someone as good as you with it. Not that any of the heroes are THAT bad, but they're good enough that it makes it all so much harder that it isn't any fun. Besides, how do you counter someone moving at least some 15% faster than you're able to? The difference between Kyrre and, say, Daremyth is so large that you're basically playing with a handicap, which hasn't got much to do with countering it. Overcoming is more like it.

[DaemianLucifer]

Yes,but there are other ways to counter that.Its like the diference between cities.Those that are slow,are usally more sturdy(at least they should be).So in order to beat someone as good as you you need to study his tactics and find ways to counter that.

[Gaidal Cain]

Not really. For the cities, it's (or should be) a tradeoff. Here it isn't. Kyrre is faster than Daremyth, while she doesn't have anything that can be used to compensate. Again, you're not countering it, you're overcoming it, which is another thing.

[DaemianLucifer]

But you also have some good heroes at your disposal.You just need to find the one that will help you beat your opponents tactics.

[Gaidal Cain]

Perhaps not. There are only three logistics heroes, and the only other hero which has a similar advatage is Sir Mullich. It's not that certain heroes are different, it's just that some heroes are stronger, and there's very little one can do to counter it.

[DaemianLucifer]

Well some do have better specials but if you dont know how to use them,they are worth nothing to you.If you always concentrate on raw strenght,starting with solmyr will be your doom.

[Gaidal Cain]

But that isn't the point. As you said earlier, a newbie would be able to squander the advantage a Grail would give him. Balance is ultimately only interesting if we're talking about two players that are both skilled enough not to squander an advantage (say, experienced enough to understand what Solmyr's real advantage is). They don't have to be top notch, but they need to know the ropes.

[DaemianLucifer]

Just an example that crossed my mind:I use multiple tabs in opera and have cable internet,plus I lead by post numbers,so you could say that I have an unfair advantage in spotting ranks.However,Vlad976 managed to spot one rank in before me,and it was the rank Ive reached,not someone else.

[Derek]

Technically, you're not supposed to let your units get killed in the first place. Well, maybe let the Infernal Troglodytes die a little, but not the vital units.

Certain battles it is unavoidable that you will have some units die, that's just a fact. However, I recently did load up Heroes III and played a game using Jeddite. I shall now retract my earlier comments about the advantages of ressurection...while still good it does not have the power of other abilities, namely Necromancy/Archery.

In other words: your brother needs to suck it up, lose honorably, learn from his failure and deal with this disadvantage in better fashion next time, or do better in other areas so that this advantage is not enough to give you victory. (Or he could just choose Thant next time himself!)

Fair enough. Certainly Thant did provide me with an advantage, and technically my brother did agree to let me use him. The logic of us both picking 'broken' heroes is very appealing. I envision a map with Gunnar against Kyrre and they're both able to run the entire length of the map in one turn. They are both be broken, but if everyone has a broken hero then it is okay.(I think... )

[Banedon]

Certain battles it is unavoidable that you will have some units die, that's just a fact.

It is my experience that few battles will necessarily result in a loss of your strongest stacks, except for the final battle (where damage is almost certain) and also some calculated risks (like charging the town with a Castle inside). Other times good management will reduce / redirect the damage to your expendable stacks.

Fair enough. Certainly Thant did provide me with an advantage, and technically my brother did agree to let me use him. The logic of us both picking 'broken' heroes is very appealing. I envision a map with Gunnar against Kyrre and they're both able to run the entire length of the map in one turn. They are both be broken, but if everyone has a broken hero then it is okay.(I think... dontknow )

That would be okay, except you'd be bullying the computer

[Derek]

It is my experience that few battles will necessarily result in a loss of your strongest stacks, except for the final battle (where damage is almost certain) and also some calculated risks (like charging the town with a Castle inside). Other times good management will reduce / redirect the damage to your expendable stacks.

I'm not talking about HUGE losses, but a loss of a few units, in proportion to your stack that is. Perhaps you misunderstood me.

That would be okay, except you'd be bullying the computer

Bah! This can easily be done on any difficulty. The computer doesn't seem to know many things.

So what heroes do people ban if they do play in tournaments(other than Mullich)? I'm sure there must have been a list made for this quite a while ago...

[Banedon]

I'm not talking about HUGE losses, but a loss of a few units, in proportion to your stack that is. Perhaps you misunderstood me.

Even a few losses should never happen. If I go into battle with 20 Archangels, I'd feel terrible if I lose even 1.

So what heroes do people ban if they do play in tournaments(other than Mullich)? I'm sure there must have been a list made for this quite a while ago...

I don't know about tournaments, but I guess all Logistics specialists will be banned.

[ThunderTitan]

I'm not talking about HUGE losses, but a loss of a few units, in proportion to your stack that is. Perhaps you misunderstood me.

Even a few losses should never happen. If I go into battle with 20 Archangels, I'd feel terrible if I lose even 1.

But you do lose some more creatures by protecting the Archangels.

[Corribus]

But you do lose some more creatures by protecting the Archangels.

Not if you resurrect them! With two stacks of AAs in your army you should rarely lose any creatures going against moderately defended targets.

[HodgePodge]

And I thought I was the only one, when playing against the computer, to make it my goal not to lose any creatures in combat. It's very challenging sometimes.

[Derek]

I'm sure there are situations it would be impossible for you not to lose, say, Dragon Flies in a battle.

Thanks Banedon, that's what I was looking for.

[HodgePodge]

I'm sure there are situations it would be impossible for you not to lose, say, Dragon Flies in a battle.

Yeah, those poor little bugs, they're always the first to strike and the first to get smacked around.