Neutral Creatures Joining Party - Random or Pre-Set?

Gizah · Unread postby **Gizah** » 27 Oct 2006, 14:30

What are the parameters that affect neutral stacks joining your party when you encounter them on the map?

Is there a percentile chance that it will occur, or is this pre-determined by the map maker?

Will they offer to join only if you have an open slot?

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Sathasarus · Unread postby **Sathasarus** » 27 Oct 2006, 15:00

Well hey, I have played the homm series all the way through since the beginning but in terms of homm5, there are a few things i noticed that seem to have influenced neutral stacks joining ...... i don't know if it's just coincidences or not but this is what i came up with:

Yes, having an open spot seems to help although I would understand if this was a coincidence.

I also think that if you got the same creature in your army (and by same creature i mean same upgrade too (Scouts are less likely to join if you got assassins but if you have scouts too, they seem to want to join)

The last factor which I have observed which I am willing to bet my lucky penny is an actual factor is your army strength and money. Although some creatures don't want money to join, if you have a stronger army, there is a greater chance that stack will join.

Ok thinking about my post, i'm not sure if I was any help, but I do however have pretty good luck even w/o that leadership skill of having troops join.. mainly, same creature in your army, and having a overwhemling army strength over the stack you're attacking.

l8r

Gizah · Unread postby **Gizah** » 27 Oct 2006, 15:22

Ok, so it IS a randomized event.

We may not know what the factors are for sure, but we know that it's not pre-determined.

Thanks.

Campaigner · Unread postby **Campaigner** » 27 Oct 2006, 15:55

download the manual that got the Ubi approval (or the one this site scrambled together). I think that explain the mechanisms.

Arqane · Unread postby **Arqane** » 27 Oct 2006, 17:19

I don't remember if the manual had a section with the actual info on this.

It's actually both random, and not random. If you get the Silent Stalker skill, you can see certain neutrals that will always join you, some that will always fight you, and the rest will be random.

I know random has to do with army size, money, the Diplomacy skill, and (at least the game says) your specialized creature.

I don't know what other factors, or how much these are really taken into account.

okrane · Unread postby **okrane** » 27 Oct 2006, 17:38

Arqane wrote: It's actually both random, and not random. If you get the Silent Stalker skill, you can see certain neutrals that will always join you, some that will always fight you, and the rest will be random.

Silent stalker or is it scouting?

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 27 Oct 2006, 17:44

okrane wrote: Silent stalker or is it scouting?

Silent Stalker. Scouting only gives you numbers.

Bonzer · Unread postby **Bonzer** » 27 Oct 2006, 19:05

Without looking in the fan manual (again - wonderful piece of work), I don't think an empty slot has any effect. If I want creatures to join, I always have either an empty slot, or 2 stacks of 1 creature.

These things influence a neutral stack in your favour:
The size of your force vs theirs
Is your hero their natural leader (racial)
Do you have the same creatures in your force
Diplomacy skill

I almost always have 2 stacks (at least) of:
Academy - Genies to increase the spells cast.
Necro - Skeleton Archers - now that 1.3 limits Phantom Force to once per stack (only S.A.'s if there are 1k+ though)
Sylvan - Druids to increase spell damage

I rarely travel with tanks (golems, zombies etc.) so usually have a free slot or can make one by stacking two of the same.

Phoenix_1973 · Unread postby **Phoenix_1973** » 28 Oct 2006, 02:37

Neutral creatures joining is random , but the probability of it depends from many factors and can be from 0 to 55 percents . If your army isn't 4 times stronger than neutrals , they will always fight , if your're 4-8 times stronger they would either fight or being ready to join for money , if you're 8+ times stronger they would either flee or free join .
If all your troops have the same allignment with neutrals you have +5% chance that they will join , if you have opposite -5% .
If your hero and troops are from the same fraction with neutras , it adds yet 10% to joining chance .
If you have in your army the same troops as neutrals , it gives you another +5%
If your hero specialize in this creatures it gives you +20% chance for joining
If your hero has diplomaty , it gives you +10%

So , maximum is 55% if map creator didn't say to current neutrals always or never join a player's hero .

Sir_Toejam · Unread postby **Sir_Toejam** » 28 Oct 2006, 04:12

diplomacy only adds 10%?

I think I'll try to change that.

Grumpy Old Wizard · Unread postby **Grumpy Old Wizard** » 28 Oct 2006, 07:32

Sir_Toejam wrote:diplomacy only adds 10%?

I think I'll try to change that.

Diplomacy does indeed seem a bit low when specialization gives 20%!

GOW

okrane · Unread postby **okrane** » 28 Oct 2006, 09:18

yeah.... 30% would seem alot better

Caradoc · Unread postby **Caradoc** » 28 Oct 2006, 18:23

Would anyone happen to know whether Talanar gets the 20% for elves?

Phoenix_1973 · Unread postby **Phoenix_1973** » 29 Oct 2006, 14:04

No , Talanar isn't a unit specialist . He only adds enraged ability to dancers , hunters and druids .

Arqane · Unread postby **Arqane** » 30 Oct 2006, 09:43

Phoenix_1973 wrote:Neutral creatures joining is random , but the probability of it depends from many factors and can be from 0 to 55 percents . If your army isn't 4 times stronger than neutrals , they will always fight , if your're 4-8 times stronger they would either fight or being ready to join for money , if you're 8+ times stronger they would either flee or free join .
If all your troops have the same allignment with neutrals you have +5% chance that they will join , if you have opposite -5% .
If your hero and troops are from the same fraction with neutras , it adds yet 10% to joining chance .
If you have in your army the same troops as neutrals , it gives you another +5%
If your hero specialize in this creatures it gives you +20% chance for joining
If your hero has diplomaty , it gives you +10%

So , maximum is 55% if map creator didn't say to current neutrals always or never join a player's hero .

Well, your numbers add up to 50% if you have all 5 requirements. There wasn't a base number mentioned, so is that maybe the 5%? Or is there even a base % chance of joining (Opposite faction, no Diplomacy)? I'm not really thrilled with the way it looks. It's very much all or nothing, with a 50% chance to gain a large number of troops under the right circumstances. I like the old partial joining idea better myself.

PhoenixReborn · Unread postby **PhoenixReborn** » 30 Oct 2006, 16:41

Do they actually require money for joining? I thought it was free.

Bonzer · Unread postby **Bonzer** » 30 Oct 2006, 16:47

PhoenixReborn wrote:Do they actually require money for joining? I thought it was free.

Sometimes for free, sometimes they need to be "hired". I don't know what makes the difference, apart from the week of Diplomacy when any that would join for a fee join for free.

I think the amount is as if you were recruiting them in a town, it always seems a lot of money, but never actually checked.

If I need them, have the space and can afford them, I'll take them with me. If not, it's all useful XP.

Phoenix_1973 · Unread postby **Phoenix_1973** » 31 Oct 2006, 23:36

When the hero's army is 8+ times stronger the neutrals will join for free , if only 4-8 times they shoud be hired .
And I find 50% probability for this unit specialist very useful , few days ago I'd played with Eruina and two big stacks of shadow witches joined her that completely decide game destiny .

BoardGuest808888 · Unread postby **BoardGuest808888** » 02 Nov 2006, 10:46

It seems that neutrals require a whole lot of money to hire, even more than twice their actual cost when I hire them in castle. Is there anyway to overcome this ? Make it cheaper maybe ?

Sir_Toejam · Unread postby **Sir_Toejam** » 03 Nov 2006, 00:25

probably.

if you want someone to try modding it, you might try posting a thread over in the modcrafting guild.

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Neutral Creatures Joining Party - Random or Pre-Set?

Neutral Creatures Joining Party - Random or Pre-Set?

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