Dungeon troops better led by a demon lord?

[Zrana]

Ive got a theory that for dungeon, getting a demon lord as a main hero is mch better than using a warlock;

Demon lords get teleport assault, like warlocks do - which is great with hydras But they also get attack as a main stat. Dungeon troops are arguably the most powerful out of all the towns and a demon lord can conserve them much better . Confusion and puppet master stop them getting hit, and hellfire is just nice - a good replacement to elemental chains.


As an example i played the same map twice, and once got sinitar to lvl 29, with 38 spellpower (lots of those glowy orange things whose name eludes me) and played it again with Grok. I got something over 35 attack with grok.

With sinitar, empowered chain lightning with Trident of the Titans did 1712 damage on the first hit. With Grok, my 30 black dragons dealt 5000 damage as a minimum, and sometimes were dealing over 10k to low level units. This was without retaliation, and with no ranged attacks coming in (mass confuse) and the enemies highest units under my control (puppet master).

To see if i could use sinitar's damage to better effect, i went into battle with only my black dragon stack and cast armageddon, hoping that my black dragons would survive due to being immune..... but irrestible magic works on your own units (i know u probly knew that, but im spelling it out to have a good whine...).

Are warlocks only good mid-game?

[Cyrox]

Nah, I wouldnt use demon lords.

Dungeon heros have got better sub skills than demon lords.

Attack- Retribution

Leadership- Aura of Swiftness

and so on

Demon lords have subskills dungeon units cant use, like the hellwrath ability of defence, excrutiating strike of attack, gate master of leadership, swarming gate of luck, and swift gating of logistics...and so on.

Plus they cant use hellfire, or make use of the demonlord's gating ability

Warlocks can have the attack of demon lords sometimes, or close to it, by taking enlightenment. I tend to realise that enlightenment evens out the points gained by both spellpower and attack so u end up getting quite even amt of them.

[Jolly Joker]

Three things.
1) You have no control about the heroes you get in your Tavern, so getting a Demon Lord would be first and foremost luck.
2) You get no high level Dark Magic spells in your guild, so I don't see Blind, Berzerk or Puppet Master. What I see are mostly unusable spells or not very effective spells due to having Summoning and Destructive spells, but no Spell Power.
3) No creatures to lose! With the Inferno troops you can split your imps basically up into one big and 5 single stacks, gate with them and deal a massive amount of Hellfire damage with single gated units. That's not possible with the Dungeon units.

[Gaidal Cain]

3) No creatures to lose! With the Inferno troops you can split your imps basically up into one big and 5 single stacks, gate with them and deal a massive amount of Hellfire damage with single gated units. That's not possible with the Dungeon units.

I imagine that Blood Furies would be a able to substitute nicely here, though I agree with the two previous points.

[Elvin]

Nah, I wouldnt use demon lords.

Dungeon heros have got better sub skills than demon lords.

Attack- Retribution

Leadership- Aura of Swiftness

and so on

Demon lords have subskills dungeon units cant use, like the hellwrath ability of defence, excrutiating strike of attack, gate master of leadership, swarming gate of luck, and swift gating of logistics...and so on.

Plus they cant use hellfire, or make use of the demonlord's gating ability

Warlocks can have the attack of demon lords sometimes, or close to it, by taking enlightenment. I tend to realise that enlightenment evens out the points gained by both spellpower and attack so u end up getting quite even amt of them.

Huh?How often do you get leadrship with warlocks?Not that demon lords can get it more often.Hellfire works with any creature and probably hellwrath too for the same reason.Excruciating strike has nothing to do with your army.All you miss is some abilities which would benefit a lot more inferno but it's pretty playable this way too.And you may miss dark magic but you can go might all the way.
Still I'd prefer a warlock because I don't think hellfire,excruciating strike and some extra attack can be a substitute to irresistible empowered lucky spells with increased power(enlightenment) and speed(sorcery).At least not while guiding dungeon creatures.

Edit:What may be fun is a warlock leading inferno creatures.No morale penalty,destructive magic in guild,not many abilities tied to dungeon creatures(as in none ).More specifically,teleport assault takes 4 instead of 6 levels(though with less chance to get skill),aura of swiftness(still too rare),power of speed(it will become mass),warlock's luck which is great anytime,anywhere Familiars will help a lot with spellcasting and become doubly annoying under a warlock! I know inferno's creatures are more for direct assault but it should be interesting anyway! Too bad for gating.

[Jolly Joker]

3) No creatures to lose! With the Inferno troops you can split your imps basically up into one big and 5 single stacks, gate with them and deal a massive amount of Hellfire damage with single gated units. That's not possible with the Dungeon units.

I imagine that Blood Furies would be a able to substitute nicely here, though I agree with the two previous points.

Yup, right. The Furies would do the trick.

[ThunderTitan]

Pfftt, just get a Necro, rush your way to Armageddon (Raven starts with Destr magic) and go out to collect skellies with your BD's.


The Furies no retal would make them even better then Imps.

[Arqane]

I much prefer knight heroes for the troops. Even with the -2 Leadership (which is pretty easy to make up with Knight's leadership), it's still extremely powerful.

Dungeon troops have great stats, but there's fairly few of them. Defense is much more important than offense in my opinion. They've already got a great offense while they're alive, and knight also adds more attack power anyway. It's just a shame that the evil towns don't have a good might type hero.

[PhoenixReborn]

Hellfire works with non-inferno units. (or did they change that in 1.3?)

Could somebody just briefly go over the morale situation...which hero types affect which creatures what way?

[Elvin]

Good heroes get a penalty on evil creatures and the opposite.(Good are haven,sylvan and academy-Evil necropolis,dungeon,inferno) In the first case evil creatures will get -2 on morale,allied creatures(from good faction) remain unaffected and creatures of same faction get +1.For more details check page 201 of the manual.

[DaemianLucifer]

I seem to remember it was -3.Or is there and additional penalty for mixing troops as well?

[Elvin]

Yep.Forgot to add that one.Mixing works like previous heroes games.

[Cyrox]

Hellfire works with non-inferno units. (or did they change that in 1.3?)

Yep, I was shocked to see my zombie stacks dealing extra fire damage!

[Shauku]

I have only used deleb once when playing Dungeon. And she makes for a good hero even on a different faction, atleast she was far better than the Dungeon Heroes i received Lethos and Sorgal (it was against necro)

I got warmachines, logistics, attack and destructive for her... The destructive part obviously being just for the perks and guaranteed spells,those cold spells did work ok though.

It was agains AI...But I had fun. That Hell Fire triggering and Teleport Assault hydras Oh and Meteor Shower that didn't affect my blacks

[Zrana]

It was agains AI...But I had fun. That Hell Fire triggering and Teleport Assault hydras Oh and Meteor Shower that didn't affect my blacks

Yeah, this is what i mean