H5 performance on large maps

[fly away]

Hi all.
I was wondering if anyone else might feel that the game is quite slow on large size maps. Here is the thing - in my opinion I have a relatively good computer
Pentium D 930, 2Gb RAM, ATI Radeon X1800GTO etc. Not the best at the moment, but, well, the best I could afford when the game was released.
It has been mentioned that one of the last maps in the wizard campaighn could be slow until you eliminate a few opponents. But that was nothing compared with what I am getting now while playing the Battle for Androna map. Yes, it is an extra large sized map, but guess how long I have to wait for the computer to complete its turn - it can be as bad as 10 minutes!!! Is it normal? I don't think so.
Let's compare with H3. Roughly, the number of possible options and combinations is not that much different - in fact, I am not even sure that H5 has more stuff, conceptually. The AI is not that much smarter either, if at all. Yes, the graphics is all 3D, but it's not what takes the time. Then what does?
Game industry is not what it was 10 years ago - new algorithms, new compilers, new computers after all are available. Why does the performance go down? The only thing I could think of is that they might have wanted to simulate the behavior of slow-thinking human opponents playing over a slow network... But that's nonsence...
Well, anyways. I hope I am not the only one having such experience. Or maybe there are ways to improve performance of the game I am not aware of? Except overclocking my PC of course.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Hi all.
It has been mentioned that one of the last maps in the wizard campaighn could be slow until you eliminate a few opponents. But that was nothing compared with what I am getting now while playing the Battle for Androna map. Yes, it is an extra large sized map, but guess how long I have to wait for the computer to complete its turn - it can be as bad as 10 minutes!!! Is it normal? I don't think so.

Have you gotten the latest Battle for Androna update? I haven't played the map yet as I am working on my own map currently, but the author posted in the mapmaking thread that enemy heroes using Instant Travel was causing very long turns for the AI. He has since then posted an update disabling Instant Travel from the map.

Instant Travel appears to be the culprit in slow campaign map turns also.

GOW

[fly away]

Have you gotten the latest Battle for Androna update? I haven't played the map yet as I am working on my own map currently, but the author posted in the mapmaking thread that enemy heroes using Instant Travel was causing very long turns for the AI. He has since then posted an update disabling Instant Travel from the map.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try. I am just afraid my save won't work - so much time has been invested in that map.
Nevertheless, the question remains - why is the game so annoyingly slow?

[asandir]

I can only guess, but my guess is that the optimisation is not great, I have other games with graphics as good or better (fps style for example) and the frame rate doesn't bog down like this game does

[BlackLotus]

10 years ago alot of the programs were either written in C; even further back they were written in a language called assembly. Assembly was a very difficult language to program in; however, it was the easiest for the computer to process, since it was such a low level langauge. Assembly was also one of the fastest programming languages, just under machine code, which was written in pure hexidecemial code. The higher the programming code, the easier for us to comprehend. But all this comes at a price, it takes alot longer for the computer to process the code.
The main problem with Heroes, that it has alot of memory leaks. Whenever the programming code performs an action, it fills a small bit within your system memory. After the action has been completed, proper coding would erase that data located within that memory space. Heroes itself has been programmed somewhat sloppy, leaving bits of code lingering within your memory space, this is what is called a memory leak. If enough of this data is left behind within the system memory, the program starts to slow down, until it eventually crashes.

This information was explained to me by a master programmer known on the website as Frazurbluu of Wolfpack

Thanks The Black Evil One

[asandir]

that may be true, but the fact that this particular issue is noticed on large and extra large maps (especially those with trees - the big ones) has little to do with this, you can play multiple small maps in a row and not experience the problem, or one extra large and experience the problem immediately - this suggests a lack of optimisation .... this game is not Oblivion for a graphical example ....

[Caradoc]

It has the feel of a buffering problem.

I've been playing Androna on and off, but have not had any overall slowdown. I have a 3Ghz CPU, 512MB RAM, Raytheon 3300 -- your typical 2 year old machine. Occasionally a computer player will seem to have a hard time deciding what to do.

The worst problem I have is that incoming mail starts a memory scrum and it may take 10 minutes for things to get back to normal. (CIV and Oblivion do this too.)

When I started the map it was labelled 'too big for you' but I have seen no ill effects.

[Shuyssar]

You people need better computers!

[okrane]

You people need better computers!

[Othmaar]

My system: P4 2.5Ghz, 1GB RAM, FX5200 gpu (AGP x4). It was cutting edge 5 years ago

I get bad fps problems when the camera pitch is low, but top down view it works quite well. Never had the AI take 10 mins on a turn ... maybe 3 at most and I have played the maps mentioned. I run TuneXP for some optimization tweaks 1-2 times a month, including defragging the system drive.

My PC can get bogged down by memory leaks, but homm5 is not one of them. I can mention Firefox and Macromedia Flash plugin for IE as the worst. My AV is Norton and it doesent seem to affect performance at all unless Live Update fires up in the background. Same with MS update of course.

If your system is better specced than mine you should try to google some tweak sites. I can heartily recommend TuneXP. Easy to use, effective, well documented ... and FREE!

[Paradox]

that may be true, but the fact that this particular issue is noticed on large and extra large maps (especially those with trees - the big ones) has little to do with this, you can play multiple small maps in a row and not experience the problem, or one extra large and experience the problem immediately - this suggests a lack of optimisation .... this game is not Oblivion for a graphical example ....

bigger maps = more data to be left lying around in the ram, so it fills up faster =)

I can only suggest some kind of ram cleaner tool, that sits on the systray and when the ram gets to X% it would purge it and clear it all, which would probably cause a huge slowdown ingame for about 5-10 seconds, but should fix the leak temporarily until the ram filled up again.

[Caradoc]

You people need better computers!

Do you have one to give me?

[Caradoc]

that may be true, but the fact that this particular issue is noticed on large and extra large maps (especially those with trees - the big ones) has little to do with this, you can play multiple small maps in a row and not experience the problem, or one extra large and experience the problem immediately - this suggests a lack of optimisation .... this game is not Oblivion for a graphical example ....

bigger maps = more data to be left lying around in the ram, so it fills up faster =)

I can only suggest some kind of ram cleaner tool, that sits on the systray and when the ram gets to X% it would purge it and clear it all, which would probably cause a huge slowdown ingame for about 5-10 seconds, but should fix the leak temporarily until the ram filled up again.

I use FreeRAM XP Pro, which is freeware. I believe you can get it at tucows. It works during pauses so I have not seen slowdowns except when ALT-TABing.

[fly away]

I've been playing Androna on and off, but have not had any overall slowdown. I have a 3Ghz CPU, 512MB RAM, Raytheon 3300 -- your typical 2 year old machine. Occasionally a computer player will seem to have a hard time deciding what to do.

When I started the map it was labelled 'too big for you' but I have seen no ill effects.

Well. To be honest, upgrading to a newer version of that map did help. But if all the hassle was just about that Instant Travel spell, which was disabled in the update, then I still have a feeling that something is wrong.

And it is not the graphics that concerned me in the first place. My question is - what is it in the game that takes more time for the AI to make its turn than it did in H3 (or H4)?
Memory leaks are another problem... but it is not that crucial.

[Othmaar]

I think you would all be surprised at the amount of polygons in H5 maps. Every single object are rendered 3d with lighting effects. In addition many of those are animated 3d objects. Have you ever zoomed in and looked at the detail level. Even at low settings its kind of pretty When you have uncovered large parts of a XL map the GPU will must render a LOT of objects. If you zoom all the way out it will be as if you could set your camera 100 meters above your character in a first person shooter and look at the whole scenario.

[fly away]

When you have uncovered large parts of a XL map the GPU will must render a LOT of objects.

I hope you don't assume that I wouldn't understand such a basic thing I am curious what's taking time before I have uncovered a LOT of objects?

[asandir]

You people need better computers!

you are a tool, sir .... to suggest that these people need to upgrade their computers, when some are higher then recommended specs is pretty stupid

well done

[Othmaar]

When you have uncovered large parts of a XL map the GPU will must render a LOT of objects.

I hope you don't assume that I wouldn't understand such a basic thing I am curious what's taking time before I have uncovered a LOT of objects?

No no ... was referring to everyone else of course!