Change how wasp swarm works for sprites

[Sir_Toejam]

after the discussion in the "worthless spells" thread, it seemed that a lot of the reason wasp swarm was gettin' the "shaft" was because folks were judging it by how sprites cast it.

well, sprites cast at a skill level of "none", which means not only very low damage, but no initiative effect.

so, I made a simple mod to change the casting level to basic.

what this does by example:

previously, a stack of 10 sprites would cast wasp swarm for 20 damage, with no initiative effect.

*yawn*

now, the same stack does 40 damage, and reduces initiative of the target stack by 20% for one turn.

a quick test suggested this might be a bit overpowered early on.

hard to say without some independent feedback.

if most decide this is then overpowered, i could release a different mod that changes the way the wasp swarm spell itself works.

I could add a bit more damage to the "none" skill level, and add say 10% initiative decrease.

example:

currently, the spell does 10+2(power) damage at a skill level of none.

I could change that to say 15+2(power), or 10+3(power), and add an initiative reduction of 10%.

the mod will be up in the mods section momentarily.

edit:

ok, i also put up the mod to the wasp swarm spell itself.

it now does 15+2(power) damage and causes a 10% init reduction in the target stack when cast at the "none" skill level.

the two mods are not mutually exclusive.

[okrane]

Hi,

I did a test of the Uber Sprites mod... and I found it overpowered. Here's a brief hystory of my game:

I played a 1v1 map on hard difficulty, for about a month... didn't cross the computer player's heroes yet.
Started with Ossir(i'm using the mod that gives him Soldiers Luck)

Week 1:

Ossir level 5(after some chests and learning stones): skills: Adv Luck, Dead Eyeshot (and other I won't mention since they aren't very important)
Army: 31 Sprites, 9 Hunters

versus: 27 Master Hunters : beat them - no casualties... they didnt even act. I split the sprites into 6 stacks and cast wasp swarm, finished the enemy with my hunters and my hero.
versus:50 archers : same outcome

Week 2:

Ossir level 8: skills Expert Luck, Elven Luck, Basic Destuction Magic, DeadEye shot
Army: 16 MH, 8 Druids, 42 sprites.

versus: 18 priests. Lost 1 sprite: one last priest remained...
versus: 54 footmen: no casualties
versus: 32 succubus: no casualties(attacked the succubi with one of the sprite stacks so they won't retaliate against my MH)
versus: 50 cerberi : no casualties
versus: 19 Inquisitors: casualties 13 sprites
versus: 50 imps: no casualties - they all died due to Wasp swarm

Week 4: (I came back to my castle in the begining of week 4 ... I have cleared mostly all the creatures from mines and other basic places just with the army from week 2)

Ossir Level 13:new skills Imbue Ballista
Comment: I'd love to have a mod that makes Imbue Arrow a requirement for Imbue Ballista... because I had Imbue Ballista, didn't have Imbue Arrow... and I couldn't use it...

Army: 51 MH, 20 Elder Druids, 60 Sprites

versus 19 cavaliers: no casualties... they didn't even act...

Conclusion: the uber sprite mod, makes the sprites in hero's army overpowered in comparison with troops of their tier... Because of this spell you get to stunlock the enemy while your hunters do the job.
In 1 month of the game I only lost 14 Sprites...
In early week 1 they can be the actual killers killing really easy any level 1 creeps defending your mines.
To be honest I don't like it when I find mines defended by master hunters or spell casters... but with these sprites the only things I haven't attacked were ghosts. So I guess ghosts and vampires or leeches could be a problem... but nothing a Sylvan Army can't handle since these undead aren't particularily strong, nor fast...

Suggestions:I'll try the mod that modifies only the spell and not the sprites and see how things are going with only a 10% initiative loss, because I think that's the mod to use.

[DaemianLucifer]

Sprites had initiative reduction in beta,and it proved to be a mistake.So leave it out.If possible,make them gain expertise with number(100 sprites being basic,500 advanced,1000 expert summoning magic).If not,just make it do a bit more damage,but not too much.Sprites already are strong(high init,tpray no retal attack make them excelent units),and dont need much boosting.

[Gaidal Cain]

Sprites already are strong(high init,tpray no retal attack make them excelent units),and dont need much boosting.

Sprites doesn't need any boosting. Caster creatures in general does, but if that's ever fixed, Sprites would have to be nerfed.

[Metathron]

So is there any sense at all in sprites having wasp swarm then?

[DaemianLucifer]

Its usefull for them in the begining,when the stacks of them are small.

[okrane]

I also tried the Wasp swarm mod... it came out very strong with sprites. I was playing Haven and I lost 25 archers when figthing 45 sprites. MY army was lead by Dougal and cosisted of 65 archers 9 griffins 10 footmen.
I don't think any other 45 lvl 1 creatures upgrated or not would have given me this size of casualties. I mean not even M Gremlins or Skeleton Archers where usually I lose 5 - 10 archers...

So I think the mod empowers sprites a great deal and I don't recomment its use. Correct me if I'm wrong

[Sir_Toejam]

did you mean the change to the spell, or the change to the sprites?

I expected the changes to the sprites would be considered overwpowered (hence "uber sprites"), but i've played a bit now with the change to the wasp swarm spell, and it seems to be not very overpowering.

[okrane]

The uber sprites is overpowered.
I was talking about the other one. The extra damage at no proficiency gives sprites a good damage boost in early figths. If there are more stacks of sprites you will take more extra damage which in the begining of the game is something... And it's too much for a level 1 creature. Normally with an army or 60 archers you would have almost no casualties when fighting lvl 1s. Maybe against ranged ones... but with the range penalty these casualties are rather small...

[Sir_Toejam]

so.. drop the damage boost for the no skill level.

okeedokee.