Grade the racial skills

[DaemianLucifer]

On the scale of 1 to 10(1 being the worst,10 being the best)grade the racial skills.Racial skills with two effects(like counterstrike or irresistable magic),should still be graded with a single grade.Also,evaluate just the racials and notthe skill asociated wit them.

Here goes mine:
Counterstrike:The primary effect of this(increasing your retaliation damage)is almost useless,except in the final fight.But the secondary effect(training units)is extremly usefull,evn though it is a bit costly.So Ill give it a 7.
Gating:Can always be used,and adds additional fodder to the map.Although you have to wait a bit for the fodder to come,it requires no investment(except for leveling up),so Ill give it a 9.
Necromancy:Imo this is the most beneficial racial skill of them all.It allows you to raise 5/6 of your defeated enemies as skeletons/skeleton archers,thus increasing your army on the move.Plus it costs nothing to use.So Ill give it a 10.
Irresistable magic:This is the weakest racial imo,because its primary effect can be used only against 10 units,5 of which are neutrals,and 1 being your own unit.Its secondary effect requires you to invest money into it,and usually requires you to attack lower priority units first in battle.Thus Ill give it 5.
Avenger:Though this one needs money to work,it is very usefull,especially if you know who you are up against.By making the most dangerous units your enemy posseses your favourite enemies,youll kill them in a blink of an eye.Thus this one gets a 7.

[ThunderTitan]

IM also give a % dmg bonus to Elemental Vision attacks i belive.

[DaemianLucifer]

IM also give a % dmg bonus to Elemental Vision attacks i belive.

Thats its secondary function.

[ThunderTitan]

Ups... didn't notice it there.

[Jolly Joker]

For me they are more or less all alike. Each and everyone can easily win the game.
Avenger skill may make a hell of a difference. Chance plays a role, but it's quite powerful. Of course it will get better and better the more neutrals you fight and the bigger the map is because your selection on the shit list is bigger.
Necro is obviously good, in skills as well as in dwelling. It can easily be decisive, but Golems, Gargoyles, undead and Elementals in the wrong places may be a downside. Too many of them in the beginning can seriously hinder things. The second racial comes into play only when there are alien towns or joins, which means again that some maps are better than others. This may be the worst racial on tiny and small maps. but the best on very big ones.
Haven. I don't like the counterstrike effect because you have no control over it. On the other hand, on the plus-side you can say, you MAY have the most of it when the going gets tough. The training grounds CAN be great, but again, but it costs. Still, since it is optional and you can make use of it how YOU like it, it's good.
Inferno. Gating is great. Skill is needed. It make sitself felt in every fight. Certainly on par. Not map-depending and can be balanced in itself. This might be the best racial from a design point of view.
Academy. A very versatile skill; you have actually control about HOW you go ahead and boost your creatures - but you must LEND resources for it. A contender for Gating from a designer's pow and a great idea that gives players an opportunity to be creative.
Dungeon. This means Destructive Dominance. The opposition can protect themselves only so far against the Destructive power. A contender for the best combination of Dwellings, skill and racial skill abilities. Elemental damage is actually a bonus damage the player can control. (other than Counterstrike, Hellfire, favorite enemy bonus damage.)

[maltz]

I will give them ratings based on solely the SP campaigns (no MP).

Haven (Counterstrike):
Counterstrike itself doesn't mean much, because if you are hit first, then you are doing a bad job already. (2/10) However, the secondary feats that comes with it are quite good:
Benediction: Very good for early game; exceptionally good for Godric throughout. (8/10)
Expert trainer: Not really useful itself as you are usually rich enough when you train troops to upper tiers. However, it leads to the MOST profitable feat in Haven: Retribution (under attack, 25% damage bonus!). Simply can't miss it. (9/10)
Retaliation Strike: Not really useful itself, as you can almost always cast something that helps more otherwise. However, it leads to Divine Guidance, which from time to time saves your day. Divine Guidance leads to Aura of Swiftness, which is an awesome skill for paladins -- kill all of the ranged untis before they get to act! (8/10)
Unstoppable Charge: This ultimate ability requires quite a few almost-useless skill from Logistics, Luck and Light. We can simply make a much more effective Isabel/Godric without wasting points on them. Needless to say its power based on you being hit -- you shouldn't. (0/10)

Overall: I would first go for advanced Counterstrike, Benediction and Expert Training. (3 points spent) (3/6 = 50%)

Inferno (Gating):
After getting Swift Gating you'll probably gate something in every single battle. Very useful for troop conservation, and in major boss fights as well! (10/10)
Hell Fire: Very nice passive skill that inflicts a lot of extra damage, often making the wipe-out instead of a predicted counter attack. But with increased Phantom Force mana cost in patch 1.3, it is possible Agrael's mana will be a constant low now...(9/10)
Consume Corpse: As Agrael will probably run low in mana, consuming corpse becomes an excellent way to keep the clones running. There are quite a lot of mana wells on the maps of the Inferno campaign, though. (8/10)
Mark of the Damned: A little more "pro-active" than the retaliation strike, but since phantom force, mass haste, mass slow or mass righteous might are so much more useful, this entire skill set (mark of the damned, excruciating strike) isn't really helping too much, unless you are goin gfor the ultimate. (4/10)
Urgash's Call: This ultimate ability nullfies all threats from ranged units (not casters, too bad), and gated units can act one turn earlier. Unfortunately, getting it means you will skip some other very useful skills, and will have a weaker Agrael earlier, when the challenge is tough. (7/10)

Overall: Expert Gating asap, Hell Fire and Consume Corpse sometime in the first two missions. (4 points spent) (4/6 = 67%)

(to be continued)

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Necromancy: 10 +
Gating: 10
Counterstrike: 8.5 (training)
Avenger: 7
Irresistable magic 6
Artificer 5

I place artificer on the bottom because it can hardly be used at all on smaller than very big maps and kind of late on them. And on harder difficulties it is even harder to use.

You must use your resources to buid your dwellings and mages guild and find lots of resources before this skill can be used. Yes, it is very nice when you can finally use it, assuming you can find the time to go back to your castle to make artifacts.

[ThunderTitan]

Counterstrike itself doesn't mean much, because if you are hit first, then you are doing a bad job already. (2/10)

And if you're not going to get hit at all you're doing too good a job. Not much of a challanging game if the enemy doesn't hit you at all.

[Arqane]

I place artificer on the bottom because it can hardly be used at all on smaller than very big maps and kind of late on them. And on harder difficulties it is even harder to use.

You must use your resources to buid your dwellings and mages guild and find lots of resources before this skill can be used. Yes, it is very nice when you can finally use it, assuming you can find the time to go back to your castle to make artifacts.

That's just because you're a Grumpy Old Wizard. I usually create a L2 artifact for one of my units in the first week. That can actually give a very big boost to the hero when you add +1 speed and either hp, def, or magic protection. The only real drawback is having to return to the town to get the resources back or power up the artifact. As you know, you don't actually lose the resources.

[mr.hackcrag]

Counterstrike itself doesn't mean much, because if you are hit first, then you are doing a bad job already. (2/10)

That's hilarious.

[Kilop]

DM, you say racial skills, does that mean sub skills too if so , Dungeon are my favorites , empowered lucky meteor shower FTW !!

[Idleness2]

No, i think thats a realistic expectation, from haven, sure, wipe out the enemy completely without getting hit, why not? U guys havent played haven in a while im guessing...

I just started playing haven again, after expiramenting with all the other factions for a while, and man its a joke, Im suprised their racial ability is this counterstrike, instead of something that lets you, say, ressurect enemy troops so u get the pleasure of squashing them again.

[Kilop]

are you playing MP???
haven are strong, but not THAT strong !!
though, they are clearly second to necropolis or dungeon depending the size of the map ...

[Idleness2]

Are u playing MP? what yr dungeon got, against 300 marskmen on week 3? MAN im curious

GRIFFIN ETERNAL

[Kilop]

300 marksmen on week 3 , heroic , hard ?
anyway that is not the point, what does your 300 marsmen do against 1200 dom empowered implosion with sinitar ??

[maltz]

Counterstrike itself doesn't mean much, because if you are hit first, then you are doing a bad job already. (2/10)

And if you're not going to get hit at all you're doing too good a job. Not much of a challanging game if the enemy doesn't hit you at all.

Actually, there aren't really a lot of times that Isabel and Godric (as my ratings were given for campaigns) are hit "first" with melee, maybe just a handful, plus the final boss fight in C6M5. Of course you will be hit, but not hit first. If you hit the enemy first, you already wipe out more than half (if not all) of the stack, so you suffer much less when the enemy hits back. It is quite a different story then. Also, make a good use of 1-unit stack & stage your troops away from long-runners will pretty much eliminate the chance that you are hit first.

[joerginger]

Based on what they did for me in the campaign, these are my ratings:

Counterstrike: 8
Gating: 7
Necromancy: 10
Irresistible magic 6
Avenger: 4
Artificer 3

[Gaidal Cain]

DL: what happened to Artificer?

Anyway:
Counterstrike: Primary ability isn't going to be of any great aid, but the secondary is solid. 7/10
Gating: Overall good, no drawbacks, can be readily improved by other skills, gives a unique playing style in a way that none of the others can really match. 9/10
Necromancy: What necropolis centers about, but it still doesn't quite shift the gameplay in the manner that gating does. Still the most important racial. 10/10
Irresistible Magic: Only racial which might cause you more harm than help. Secondary is an OK bonus, even if it might not be as powerful as a few others. 6/10
Avenger: Great if it actually can be used, but difficulties in using (first having to kill the creatures, then go back to base to get to choose them as enemies) detracts a lot. 6/10 (8/10 if you're up against necromancers)
Artificer: Huge investment costs to make use of full potential, requires going home to base to reassemble and change bonuses, but otherwise versatile. 6/10

[DaemianLucifer]

DL: what happened to Artificer?

Never used it,so I cannot grade it.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

That's just because you're a Grumpy Old Wizard. I usually create a L2 artifact for one of my units in the first week. That can actually give a very big boost to the hero when you add +1 speed and either hp, def, or magic protection. The only real drawback is having to return to the town to get the resources back or power up the artifact. As you know, you don't actually lose the resources.

Whatever works for you man, but I don't think it is very efficient to build the forge in week1 for the following reasons.

In week 1 you spend 3000 gold and 1 of each resource for the forge plus the cost of the artifact itself.

You must skip dwelling(s) and stop conquering stuff (potential mine income loss) by using up turns going to and from your castle.

Here is what you are spending to get the one creature artifact.

1) +1speed/+1 HitP: 3000 gold 11 wood 6 ore 6 mercury 11 gems 1 sulfer 1crystal +potential mine income loss

2) +1speed/+25%MagicProtection: 3000 gold 11 wood 6 ore 6 mercury 11 gem 1 sulfer 1 crystal +potential mine income loss

3) +1 speed/+2defense 3000 gold 11 wood 6 ore 6 mercury 11 crystal 1 gem 1 sulfer +potential mine income loss

You also lose out on a skill or ability that would probably benefit you more than that 1 artifact by chosing to advance artificer rather than another skill.