First Aid Tent

[Jolly Joker]

No, it's Nival's job because it's their game.

And here i though you said you trust them.

I said, I trust them a lot more than the "fans".

[DaemianLucifer]

No, it's Nival's job because it's their game.

No,its ubisofts game.If ubi wanted to make heroes with big heads,nival could do nothing but grumble and comply.

[ThunderTitan]

I said, I trust them a lot more than the "fans".

Low opinion of the "fans" you have there...


But i agree that Ubival should decide how they implement it, i just haven't been impresed by it. Different definition of what's "part of the fun" i guess.

[Jolly Joker]

I said, I trust them a lot more than the "fans".

Low opinion of the "fans" you have there...


But i agree that Ubival should decide how they implement it, i just haven't been impresed by it. Different definition of what's "part of the fun" i guess.

The lowest. Well, there are fans and there are "fans". If you read or saw Stephen King's Misery you know what I mean. Everytime I see "fans" going rampart because they know so much better how something has to be like than the actual makers of something some warning lights start blinking for me.

[Marzhin]

The lowest. Well, there are fans and there are "fans". If you read or saw Stephen King's Misery you know what I mean. Everytime I see "fans" going rampart because they know so much better how something has to be like than the actual makers of something some warning lights start blinking for me.

Oh I know this feeling. I work in DVD edition for japanese animation and some fans are really funny in their heads, in a frightening way...

[ThunderTitan]

Everytime I see "fans" going rampart because they know so much better how something has to be like than the actual makers of something some warning lights start blinking for me.

It's also funny how Ubival aren't the makers of the series. Now if you said "copyright holders".

Oh, and who took Nivals staff prisoner?! And why are they forcing them to make the game crappy?! Someone call the police. (btw, this is a joke about your rather exagerated use of SK's Misery)

Oh, and Han Shot First damn it.

[Sir William S Titan]

More than three shots, yes.

[Jolly Joker]

Everytime I see "fans" going rampart because they know so much better how something has to be like than the actual makers of something some warning lights start blinking for me.

It's also funny how Ubival aren't the makers of the series. Now if you said "copyright holders".

Oh, and who took Nivals staff prisoner?! And why are they forcing them to make the game crappy?! Someone call the police. (btw, this is a joke about your rather exagerated use of SK's Misery)

Oh, and Han Shot First damn it.

Well, they ARE the makers of Heroes V, for one. For two, it's not me who exaggerates SK's Misery, it's SK who exaggerated his own experiences with fans to make an interesting story about it - you may want to read his non-fiction stuff about fan reactions on, for example, Cujo with lots of people complaining about the little boy ending dead in the car and so on and so forth. It's simply a story about SK's fears the "fans" could actually force the makers of art to do things their way. I'm adding "Forge" here, and we are right on target.

[Naskoni]

Everytime I see "fans" going rampart because they know so much better how something has to be like than the actual makers of something some warning lights start blinking for me.

It's also funny how Ubival aren't the makers of the series. Now if you said "copyright holders".

Oh, and who took Nivals staff prisoner?! And why are they forcing them to make the game crappy?! Someone call the police. (btw, this is a joke about your rather exagerated use of SK's Misery)

Oh, and Han Shot First damn it.

Well, they ARE the makers of Heroes V, for one. For two, it's not me who exaggerates SK's Misery, it's SK who exaggerated his own experiences with fans to make an interesting story about it - you may want to read his non-fiction stuff about fan reactions on, for example, Cujo with lots of people complaining about the little boy ending dead in the car and so on and so forth. It's simply a story about SK's fears the "fans" could actually force the makers of art to do things their way. I'm adding "Forge" here, and we are right on target.

I'm impressed - you seem very good (very good indeed) in creating defitions all yourself too, other than being a self-sufficient reference point to all aspects of truth in the universe, especially when it comes to Nival... Nival are the makers of HoMM V, which just so happens to have borrowed almost everything out of the previous titles, and most the things changed are not for the better or simplified. As for your faith that we should trust Ubival with the future of this game, let me show you something about their past first

Now, depending on which part of Germany you've been raised in (and here I'll make a wild guess and guess that it was the former FRG) you might be able to understand most (most probably nothing) of what is written here and most importantly, by whom:

http://www.dtf.ru/articles/read.php?id=41640

If you could read this article you would see why Ubival has failed and there were failures on both ends with Nival being the only side that actually did something to preserve some sort of heritage from the series with UBI playing the part of the brainless idiot that hardly realised what sort of license they had on their hands, with "original" ideas such as making the game RTS or consisting predominantly of RTS elements, complete factions remake and renaming stuff for the sake of being "new" and made by them... UBI clearly didn't have a clear idea what the hell they wanted this game to look like and set up a team responsible for the HoMM universe, a team that had ideas that might make each fan's hair raise. There are plenty of indications in the article that this might very well be the last HoMM game that has anything to do with what we know as past and present of this series. So I guess there will be a mediocre HoMM RTS coming in an year, or two for what UBI cares... As an example of where UBI is coming from - do you know why the Wraith has taken the place of the Dread Knight? You think balance? Or better design philosophy? Nope - UBI liked the Necro lv3 unit 3D presentation made by Nival's artists so much they wanted to promote the unit and so they ordered it being "inflated" into a big unit and pumped it's stats to lv6 (series history out the door - "wowy, look at that - me like - make that strong!") - and I wondered why it's ability seems so "simple" for a lv6 unit - now I know. That much for UBI's "competence"... and that's not the only example there, trust me...

Nival on the other hand shows off as a complete amateur in so many regards during the development of this game. You will find several conclusions based on their work with UBI there - namely what additional clauses one should put in a development contract so the publisher cannot make you change the interface, the story or factions backgrounds indefinite times just because they felt like it (which speaks tons about their experience in the field). And now comes the best part (or at least something I found amusing) - the battlefield size. Do you know why Nival made it small? Because they were afraid the units in the upper corners would be too small and people wouldn't be able to admire their artist's creations. So they made the battlefield smaller and trully believed that such a small battlefield was sufficient and offered "a lot more tactical opportunities" - they knew best, right? It was the wild outcry of the "fans" as you called them, that managed to scare UBI, which in turn literally forced the increase of the battlefield on Nival (despite their conviction). That's how the design process worked. If we had people like you over there we would have ended with a battlefield the size of my shoe. So don't tell me how the "fans" insisting on something is wrong and the creators know "best", because this is clearly not the case.

There is plenty of other interesting stuff you can find there, these are not the only things you can find interesting. I have to say that after reading the article I have little to no hope for the future of the series, which is why I'm intent on learning how to mod as otherwise I might as well uninstall it for good - there is plenty to salvage still though.

As a summary - only ingorant people that have never tasted the past of this series might buy your propaganda crap and blind faith in Nival. Don't insult the intelligence of the rest by your transparent rhetoric - it makes you a good jester, but you are not to be taken seriously - at least I don't. As I said - you are good humor value but that's it

[Jolly Joker]

@Naskoni
Since your rather offensive, ill-mannered and quasi-knowing posts are getting more and more lengthy in their repetitiveness I'll try to summarize your last:
You cite a very obscure reference and because of what you read there
1) Ubival failed completely
2) The fans saved them from failing completely
3) That's why modding may salvage something out of an otherwise completely failed game
4) The game has no future
5) Your usual offensive polemics: Only ignorant people blabla prpaganda crap blabla insult blabla transparent rhetoric blabla not taken seriously blablabla.

Well, I'm NOT impressed.
You shouldn't take éverything for granted and you shouldn't get too melodramatic. "It was the wild outcry of the "fans" as you called them, that managed to scare UBI, which in turn literally forced the increase of the battlefield on Nival (despite their conviction)." Yeah. I was part of "the outcry", except that is wasn't an outcry. It was, as everyone can read in every forum, and especially in the official one a cry for
a) a variable battlefield with different sizes depending on forces
b) a MUCH bigger battlefield as in bigger than in H3
c) a bigger battlefield
There were even people who liked the battlefield size. Sure, they cried, but hardly with one voice. And if you look at the absolute numbers involved.
1) No
2) No
3) Ubival has the right to make the game however they like, you have the right to mod it however to like and the sooner you start modding and stop trying whatever you are trying for whatever the reason, the better.
4) It has. It has even one without you as a fan. And it has one without me translating the game or speaking in Ubival's favor. It has one with Nival at the helm. But it hasn't one with the "fans" at the helm, not even fully agreeing about the First Aid Tent thing, not to mention any other thing - and it's not me who's voting against majorities.
5) You too.

[Naskoni]

So I take it you are either unable to read the article or you are way too proud to allow for anything that might contradict your utmost faith into your ideal to be shaken. As I said - you should pay a bit more attention to who wrote it - THEN give me your brain farts about "obscure" references How can it be obscure if I give you a direct link to it?

Additionally it seems that in your limitless wisdom you can comment on materials without even having to bother your highness with reading them, no? Impressive...

After you more or less guaranteed that the "enought" syndrom is constrained ONLY in the English version I was left with the impression you actually spoke languages other than German and English, but I guess your highness is limited to only those two - how disappointing indeed

[Sir_Toejam]

Everytime I see "fans" going rampart because they know so much better how something has to be like than the actual makers of something some warning lights start blinking for me.

it truly depends on the "fan" there, JJ.

some "fans" actually do have more experience programming strategy games than a lot of programmers at various small game developers do.

I've seen good mod teams make a game soooo much better.

[Jolly Joker]

Everytime I see "fans" going rampart because they know so much better how something has to be like than the actual makers of something some warning lights start blinking for me.

it truly depends on the "fan" there, JJ.

some "fans" actually do have more experience programming strategy games than a lot of programmers at various small game developers do.

I've seen good mod teams make a game soooo much better.

Sir_Toejam, I don't doubt that there might be a "fan" or two who, if they got a Stephen King manuscript, change and edit it to the better. That doesn't mean, Stephen King should listen to some fans about how to write his books.
With this game it's infinitely more easier: Nival makes the game and you can mod it as much as you like. Everyone agreeing to a certain point can download a mod and apply it. So I don't see a problem here.
Take for example the Raise Dead topic. Nival makes it their way; they might even change things 5 times in the next 4 patches. But whatever Nival does, any modder can make a mod doing things their way. And everyone agreeing with that mod can downlod it and install it.
As it happens I made a rather vast mod for Heroes 3 myself. You won't find me in any forum tearing NWC's head off, though, saying the game sucks and whatnot even though I wasn't really satisfied with some game aspects. They made things their way, I made something different after I had everything I needed to check for myself.
So it's still the same side of the same coin: They do their version of the game their way; you may disagree with them; you can mod them; but they are no idiots and they do a lot of interesting things and there is certainly no reason to bash them to hell and back when you can change the game to whatever you want.

[ThunderTitan]

Oh, and Han Shot First damn it.

Well, they ARE the makers of Heroes V, for one.[/quote]

Which is a continuation of the series. Which many ppl here are familiar with, and want H5 to be more like. Calling those ppl "fans" (read "deranged psychopats" - SK's Misery, remember) isn't very nice. Saying that just because they made the game Nival's ideas are better is stupid. Now, if you just menat that it's Ubival's right to ef the game over anyway they want, that's true, it's kinda the law, but no more "appeal to authority" pls.

As for SK's little ode to his fans: ever heard of paranoia?! Also, read my post more carefully next time, i really wasn't talking about you exagerating his work, i was talking about comparing it to the HoMM "fans". There were actualy no death treaths this time, right?

So it's still the same side of the same coin: They do their version of the game their way; you may disagree with them; you can mod them; but they are no idiots and they do a lot of interesting things and there is certainly no reason to bash them to hell and back when you can change the game to whatever you want.

I'm gonna go with the "free speach" thing and say that they can call them that if they trully feel that certain aspect of the game show inferior mental development and not just difference of opinion. It is opinion though.

[Sir_Toejam]

Sir_Toejam, I don't doubt that there might be a "fan" or two who, if they got a Stephen King manuscript, change and edit it to the better. That doesn't mean, Stephen King should listen to some fans about how to write his books.

*shrug* one could view both a book and a computer game as a work of personal expression that to some extent should completely ignore fan input of any kind. the difference between a book and a computer game is there is far more to a computer game than just "the story". In working with game companies myself, I always valued knowledgeable fan input highly. Heck the game is really for them to enjoy, and if there is something that is limiting their enjoyment, I always felt it worthwhile to listen, or at least provide explicit reasons why I made the decisions I did to counter.

With this game it's infinitely more[sic] easier: Nival makes the game and you can mod it as much as you like. Everyone agreeing to a certain point can download a mod and apply it. So I don't see a problem here.

which i agree with 100%

hence the reason i posted the thread: less talk more action.

[Idleness2]

I think its funny, as it is, war machiens are really great if you are fighting with really small armies, like in the 1st week, with deleb, for example. But around month 2 or 3, they are almost totally worthless. Only the ammo cart for archery-dependent armies becomes a real boon. for example necromancers. Therefore you dont wanna make kaspar overpowered by changing the 1st aid tent...

If you give the 1st aid tent unlimited shots, I think you are also gonna have to change kaspar somehow.

Maybe if you just keep it like it is, but give it 4 shots instead of 3

[Naskoni]

I think its funny, as it is, war machiens are really great if you are fighting with really small armies, like in the 1st week, with deleb, for example. But around month 2 or 3, they are almost totally worthless. Only the ammo cart for archery-dependent armies becomes a real boon. for example necromancers. Therefore you dont wanna make kaspar overpowered by changing the 1st aid tent...

If you give the 1st aid tent unlimited shots, I think you are also gonna have to change kaspar somehow.

Maybe if you just keep it like it is, but give it 4 shots instead of 3

Overpowered? Really? Have you noticed how easy it is to bring the tent down? You do know you can attack it, right?

I think the main problem is they decided to let the tent resurrect, it should only heal, without any limitation of turns.

[Jolly Joker]

Well, keep in mind here that the tent cannot fully "resurrect": try resurrecting a dead stack with the tent. Not possible. So for the tent the resurrect effect is more like a continued healing.
Another way to avoid the possible consequences of too many resurrect effects is simply to heal ALL friendly stacks (without any resurrect effect) when you have the First Aid ability.

[Idleness2]

the 1st aid tent isnt so easy to bring gown anymore, from patch 1.3, i dunno if you play it, with small or middle size armies, forget it.

[okrane]

I think a good way to balance the first aid tent would be to give it 2 spells/abilities.
First: Lay on hands which would cost 0 mana and you can always use this
and
Second: the Resurection spell... cast at a spell power equivalent to the healing power...

and so the tent would have only 42 mana.... just enough for 3 resurections... but it would be able to heal forever