Expansion HOMM 5

[vhilhu]

but eventually barbarians (low tier) conquered romans (high tier), right?

and im not saying that low and medium must get stronger, i say there should be more of them compared to level 7. maybe eg citadel/castle bonus shouldnt affect 7. level? i think 1 level 7 per week would be enough.

but i for example played a FFA vs AI as sylvan and its just that dragons do all the dirty work, while hunters/druids support, but the others do almost nothing, cause the dragons alone are more than half the army strength. low and medium archers and mages are staying useful even later on cause usually only enemy archers (or level 7!) are a threat to them. but low and medium melee die or stay quietly in the corner (like minotaur).

you noticed that strong medium units you proposed were archers too (2 out of 3)?

furies dominate? wtf? they are dog meat due to their low hp. a really fast unit attacks and they are dead. ah right you meant furries. furry - that sounds quite cool. like a big mad teddy-bear. another great suggestion.

[DaemianLucifer]

ever seen 1000 people take up the same space as 1?
ever seen 1 guy on a horse carrying thousands of troops?
ever build a farm and magically found 22 peasants in it immediately?
ever seen a real dragon?

it's a fantasy game in my opinion. you can compare it to real life, but using real life as an argument for something in homm can't be done i'd say.

There is a big difference between a model compared to real life and fantasy compared to real life.Ive been saying this many times before,and Ill say it again:THE FACT THAT A WORLD IS A FANTASY WORLD DOESNT MEAN THAT IT HAS NO RULES!And a model of an airplane that can fly doesnt disobey gravity.

but eventually barbarians (low tier) conquered romans (high tier), right?

I was comparing the armies,not the civilizations.The barbarians conquered the ruins of a roman empire,not the empire itself.

and im not saying that low and medium must get stronger, i say there should be more of them compared to level 7. maybe eg citadel/castle bonus shouldnt affect 7. level? i think 1 level 7 per week would be enough.

Here I agree.There should be less level 7s,but they should really be formidable(unlike now).

but i for example played a FFA vs AI as sylvan and its just that dragons do all the dirty work, while hunters/druids support, but the others do almost nothing, cause the dragons alone are more than half the army strength. low and medium archers and mages are staying useful even later on cause usually only enemy archers (or level 7!) are a threat to them. but low and medium melee die or stay quietly in the corner (like minotaur).

And this was what month?A large map,right?

you noticed that strong medium units you proposed were archers too (2 out of 3)?

Which just mentions that the archers are(again)overpowering.

furies dominate? wtf? they are dog meat due to their low hp. a really fast unit attacks and they are dead. ah right you meant furries. furry - that sounds quite cool. like a big mad teddy-bear. another great suggestion.

Sure they die,but theyll take half of the opponents army before that.A well placed stack,coupled with haste can have some 3-5 devastating attacks before enemy manages to counter them.

[vhilhu]

fine, if you want a better historic example, take this: finno-russian war. per 1 dead finn there were 5 dead russians. tier difference. but still finns ran out of their "high-tier" troops, russians didnt, although they lost more, they still had larger masses in stock. conclusion: Finland gave away Karelia (a big region) to Russia.

what does this "tier" mean anyway? why not just level or rank? ubi just wants to be original? anyway its unimportant.

what is important, is that:

in battles, you dont usually just send all your troops as far as they can go. however, archers(while range penalty makes it a bit more realistic) dont care and still shoot from the back row. now level 7 upgs are all fast(later in game there are only upgs). so they just go for enemy shooters while your (normally low/medium tier) shooters aid him. so basically your army is: lightningfast superstrong level 7 + some supporting archers/mages who dont kill altogether as much as level 7 but do annoy the enemy.

there is no place for non-level7 non-ranged non-magic creatures later on.

they are either fast, that means they die easily(could be cured with giving them bigger growth numbers each week by ubisoft with patch or expansion), or they are tough, which means they never get to the action-point(can be cured with haste, but without light magic and the luck of having it in mage guild its quite hopeless cause battle ends usually before the slower units get to the right place). they are not both. thats sad. and non-flying units (level 7 upg are all flying or teleporting or ranged) cant get into enemy castle right away but get there when the main unit is either dead or, more usually, already eaten all the ranged units.

[ThunderTitan]

fine, if you want a better historic example, take this: finno-russian war. per 1 dead finn there were 5 dead russians. tier difference. but still finns ran out of their "high-tier" troops, russians didnt, although they lost more, they still had larger masses in stock. conclusion: Finland gave away Karelia (a big region) to Russia.

A better one would be Allies vs. Axis.

And barbarians didn't conquer the Roman Empire, just pretty much destroyed it's western part (Bizantium did pretty well until them Crusaders decided to muck things up).


And lvl 7's should be more like in H4, from the very powerful with 1 per week, to the weakest with 3+ per week. Differences between tiers shouldn't be as great as in the previous games, nor should lvl6's be more usefull the lvl7's, or any other tier for that matter. Balance between creatures from the same faction is key.

[vhilhu]

basically barbarians did conquer the Roman Empire, because byzantium was not much of an empire anymore, just a quite big country. until Justinianus came and made it empire again. and then madyars (barbs once again, low-tier) took byzantium's balkan peninsula.

who in H4 was 4+ per week? in some expansion or equilibrium? in the original i thought i remember all except black dragon were 2 per week.

anyway, to the point:

i think balance between creatures from different factions is the key.

elseway its just like in homm3:imagine fortress(swamptown) vs castle(humantown).

the fortress units with 1 archer have to take a quick offensive vs castle units with 2 archers, because they lose more units by ranged attacks. only dragonflies and wyverns are fast and flying, they get quite decimated when targeting archers. and the heavy inf - basilisks and gorgons and hydras arrive 2 turns later, by that time they are probably all blinded by enemy, the only fortress archer lizardman cant cause alone much damage and the castle with its angels and cavaliers and griffins(all fast) and 2 archers simply bestes the fortress.

(btw noticed i didnt mention gnolls? they have a creature generator building, but still on month 2 and forward, level 1 just doesnt matter.)

factions as total must be equal, elseway nobody chooses that lesser faction. balance between creatures from the same faction is important too, elseway its just 1 creature(level 7 of course) does it all and others watch. but that doesnt mean they defenetely must have the same stats, just lower creatures need larger numbers.

[ThunderTitan]

who in H4 was 4+ per week? in some expansion or equilibrium? in the original i thought i remember all except black dragon were 2 per week.

I think Behemonths had 3/week.

i think balance between creatures from different factions is the key.

That one's a must too, but what's the point if all towns are about the lvl 7's?!


As for Byzantium being a big country: isn't that what an Empire is? And as it was already split in 2 the Roman Empire didn't really exist anymore, the Eastern and Western Empires did.

[DaemianLucifer]

Cerberi and especially furries arent useless.Imps too are very good.As are hydras,paladins and nightmares.Level 7s have very low initiative thus they wont be able to act quick enough and will usually be decimated by fast low tiers.And think of whats worse:Loosing 100 cerberi,or 20 devils?A way to make slow tanks more usefull is to bring in LoS.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Cerberi and especially furries arent useless.Imps too are very good.

I just finished a game playing as inferno. My familiar stack slways drained all of the opposing heroe's mana before he could cast a spell. So yes, they not only remain useful, they are overpowered IMHO.

GOW

[vhilhu]

but when my town is maxed out i can still recruit less than 2000 gold worth of sprites. while i can recruit 9400 gold + 2 gems worth of dragons. and the cost really shows their usefulness.

[soupnazii]

FROST WYRM (Magic immunity / Breath attack/ Freeze / Winters wrath) (flying / large)
A snake-like dragon with wings.
- Immune to magic. (magic immunity)
- Like the breath-attack of the black & emerald dragons (breath attack)
- Chance to freeze the victim solid. (freeze)
- There is a chance of 5% that the frost wyrm summons a blizzard at the start of the battle, this blizzard lasts the entire battle and slows, freezes or hurts the enemies at random.

that wont happen. i dont know if you noticed, but during the Week of the Wyrm: "a week that used to double Wyrm population before they were completely wiped out". other than that, you have some nice proposals.

[DaemianLucifer]

but when my town is maxed out i can still recruit less than 2000 gold worth of sprites. while i can recruit 9400 gold + 2 gems worth of dragons. and the cost really shows their usefulness.

I didnt play against a human for that long,but against a computer such a situation(a fully built town)doesnt happen until late month one or month two(depending on the map),and considering the sizes of maps,Im not sure thered be lots of level 7s.In campaigns I used:angels-very rarely to never;devils-never;shadow dragons-a bit,but no real significance in battles;shadow dragons-a bit,black dragons-just in the final scenario(too expensive);green dragons-a bit,emerald dragons-just in the second and third scenario because you get them for free,but didnt buy a single one.Im curently at missopn 5,but I doubt that one will change anything.Most of the major battles happend in month 2,so I really had no oportunity to have my full army to attack.The scarceness of resources forbids you to rush high levels(which is a good thing).

[vhilhu]

in capaigns its usually 1 race vs another race but in customs there are lots of races with lots of different towns. in month 2 you will have many different-race towns under your control. each town except your first will function as 2 gold mines(2000/day) + ressource. now i dont know about others but i keep only 1-2 town type creatures in army (depending on whether i have leadership, i hate when creatures miss their turns) and i replace lower units with higher 2. town units. so most towns just produce ressources for the main type towns. that way i rarely run out of money.

[Blaspheme]

... and we need balance. A lot of ideas is great but they suck without balance.

Did you read anything at all porcupine?

I told you that it were just main ideas, they should be toned down to balance it bij the makers not bij me (it's impossible anyway)

And could you people please start a medusa-topic of your own? My topic is ruined by this medusa-****

[Orfinn]

All tier 7 should lower their prices from 500 to 1000 gold or increased stats.

Medusas eternal! ......I feel all this ethernal is getting old, quick...

[asandir]

Ughh .... after almost finishing the campaigns .... lst mission in progress .... i am so over anything eternal!!!

can't wait for the single scenarios so i don't have any cut scenes with colour effects and dodgy slogans

[PhoenixReborn]

Ughh .... after almost finishing the campaigns .... lst mission in progress .... i am so over anything eternal!!!

can't wait for the single scenarios so i don't have any cut scenes with colour effects and dodgy slogans

Uh oh, you are in for a surprise

[DaemianLucifer]

Uh oh, you are in for a surprise

No..You cannot possibly mean...Not cutscenes unduying?!

[asandir]

please be joking PR .... please??

[Jolly Joker]

Leipzig Game Convention is nearing - which you should have an eye upon. There might be an announcement in terms of an addon there.
My personal announcement here is:
IF there was an official announcement about an addon to be heard there, said addon would clearly be the best HoMM addon ever with lots of content, lots of surprises and some REAL killers no one here or elsewhere including myself would have imagined.
While you can make of this what you want, I'd say that everyone who likes the game so far will wet their pants about it.

[asandir]

geez, i hope you haven't built that up too much JJ

im hoping they get HV the original working properly and supply the map editor, then maybe some addon would be great