Creature stats discusion

[Akul]

Discuss about changing creature stats here rather then in "Ideas for nest mods" to make it better organized.

[Le_Faucheur]

I changed some things since last time

sprite:hits on 3 squares
leprechaun:always lucky,immune against misfortune
elf:3-5 damages,or change the prerequite for the dwelling
satyr:always good morale,immune against sorrow


balista:doesn't affect the morale of friendly units
crusader:growth:5
monk:spellcaster(death ward,necromancy ward,exorcism)mana:5,60 HP
champion:does +25% damages against black dragons,faerie dragons and bone dragons

dwarf:can repair mechanical units(1 HP per dwarf)
naga:the dwelling should need a prerequite(alchemist's shop or caravane for example)
titan:immune against fear,terror,cowardice,forgetfulness,berserker and hypnotise
golem dragon:something like the lizard's bite from heroes 5,or make them easier to get
(remove one of the prerequites)

cerberus:attack and defense:19,cost:210,maybe growth:6
ghost:damages:3-4
gargoyle:magic resistance:50%
mummy:casts waspswarm,mana:6,growth:7(and gives a lot more XP when beaten)
venom spawn:immune against poison
devil:negate first strike,spellcaster(armaggeddon 66 damages per devil,the use of
this spell would require the help of the magic amplifier,the spell mana flare,or
some imp)

bandit:poisonous attack(0,4-0,5 damages per bandit)
pirate:no boarding/unboarding penalty,move further on sea
troll:can stun
efreet:speed:7,the fire shield works like the spell retribution
nightmare:lowers enemies'morale by 1

harpy:the dwelling should be easier to get
nomad:increases the vision ray by 1.the dwelling should be easier to get
cyclop:can stun(at hand to hand)
behemoth:destroys a door in one hit
thunderbird:surrounded by stormy cloud(+25% range defense)

[Elwin]

should be another faction, of course.

[Le_Faucheur]

yeah,but they say it isn't possible

[eekstah]

Le_Faucheur,

I don't see how or why a sprite should be able to attack 3 squares.
Always lucky on leprachauns practically doubles their strenght, but I do like the "immune against misfortune" part.
Same for satyres.

Ballista seems ok, and even quite logical.

the dwarf idea is quite cool.

I like the special abilities to be somewhat logical, and I fail to see the connection between mummy and waspswarm.

The fact that venom spawns are not immune to poison has always bothered me.

Pirates w/o (un)boarding penalty is good.
Behemoths destroying doors too.

[eekstah]

I'm not sure about poison for bandits, but they should have some sort of ability:

They have Stealth and look very sneaky; maybe they should have some sort of "Sneakyness ability" - an ability that works just like (but opposite of ) Charge - when attacking from a distance, they can sneak up to the enemy and catch them by suprise/off guard, hence innflicting more damage.

[TheUnknown]

Nature
Unicorns shoud be better in pure combat I suggest better attack or damage
Elves minor attack boost
Might
Berserkers should be able to be commanded but not to be able to use either defend or wait button (there should have been skip turn button in case you get stuck:) otherwise their statistics are good maybe need little nerf
Harpies a bit lower defence and a bit better attack
Nomads a "no terrain penalty" ability would be a very good adition I think
Behemoths able to do 100 damage to castle door MIGHTY
Chaos
Bandits should get a bit better attack
Nightmares when they hit a target they igrnore 2(some number, may be depending of targets total defense) defense, this maybe should be only implemented for the targets in terror
Hydra +1 to minimal damage
Order
Dwarves repair mechanical ability is soooo great but doubt it can be done
Nagas a bit slower on the battlefield -1 or -0.5 movement
Genies not sure but a bit better hp would be nice
Death
Imps great units that would be twice as better if you could be able to choose from which one they drain mana and to which one to give it or at least choose the target that recives the mana
Venom Spawn altough I think they're prety good poison immune would be great
Devils just think they need something, not "negate first strike" too powerful, maybe better attack or damage or both
Life
Balistae too durable for ranged unit with "no range penalty" should have a bit less HP or defense
Crusaders a little lower HP they're just too much durable for also having double strike and a prety good movemet or maybe a lower movement would do the trick
Other
Troll a bit better movement

[Le_Faucheur]

I don't see how or why a sprite should be able to attack 3 squares.
Always lucky on leprachauns practically doubles their strenght, but I do like the "immune against misfortune" part.
Same for satyres.

for the sprite it would be like in heroes 5.always lucky and always good morale doesn't mean they have a +10.it means maybe a little boost and also that they can't have values below 1.

I like the special abilities to be somewhat logical, and I fail to see the connection between mummy and waspswarm.

I heard the curse of toutankhamon was actually due to some wasp...

[Le_Faucheur]

do you think the knight goblin and the gargantuan should be rebalanced?
I think a growth of 3 per week and a cost of 1100 can be better for the knight goblin.

the gargantuan seems to be much more powerful than any other creature in the game(considering the growth)it should at least be more expensive.

[Le_Faucheur]

I've made some change to my list:

faerie dragon:can cast misfortune(but not mass misfortune)
it would allow them to do extra damages on some stacks with their lightning

golem dragon:50% magic resistance(since they are golem and built by dwarves)

titan:can cast chain lightning(65.8 damages per titan), mana:14(yeah,cause lightning is already used by the faerie dragon and the thunderbird)

champion:as a great leader and tactician,he can use following spells
(visions,endurance)

devil:negate first try /or as the ultimate death and chaos representative, he gets 20% chance that units he killed can't be resurrected

cyclop:no melee penalty ? maybe too powerful,but seems quite logical

[eekstah]

Seen from a logical point of view, cyclops should have double chance of being blinded by spell or unicorns.

[eekstah]

*bump*

Can't people please use this thread instead of the "ideas for next mods" thread for their creatures stats talk?

And is it possible for a moderator/administrator with some spare time on his hands to move over some of the excisting creatures stats talk from that thread?

[Dalai]

No, moving threads between topics is not possible. We can only split one topic to create a new one.

I too encourage people not to go offtopic.

[Siegfried]

Seen from a logical point of view, cyclops should have double chance of being blinded by spell or unicorns.

Hmmm, you could find arguments for the opposite, too. With two eyes you have two chances for applying the spell, with only one eye only one And the same is true for evil eyes.

Generally a higher magic resistance for barbarian creatures would be good.

[eekstah]

Hmmm, you could find arguments for the opposite, too.

...yeah, you find those arguments the same place you find arguments about 2 + 2 = 5


As I see it, the spell Blind, is not affecting the eyes physically, but rather the target's mind, altering his/hers/its perception. At best, being one-eyed will not increase the chance of loosing eyesight. That is if that one eye of yours is twice as strong as a regular eye.

The unicorn's blinding ability however, is obviously quite physical. It's about hitting the target in the eye with that sharp, nasty horn. Hitting both eyes with one blow is not very likely, but i guess it could happen if you hit just in between. Other than that, the possible outcomes of an unicorn attack is either "hit in an eye" or "not hit in an eye". In this case, in a physical sense being blind means having no eyes left. If you were one-eyed to begin with and then "hit in an eye", you would have no eyes left and therefor be blind. But if you had two eyes, and then "hit in an eye", you would still have one eye and not be blind.

The more eyes you have, the less chance of having them all taken out.

[okrane]

oh come on... let's drop this... too much real life thinking will get us nowhere.

[Chorus]

One thing that bothers me about spellcasting creatures is how overpowered they become in large numbers. In the long run, players are rewarded for choosing spellcasters over regular creatures, except maybe cyclops vs. ogre magi. Genies can make far more illusory monsters than heroes, water elementals can do *tons* of damage with their ice bolt.

I don't propose a damage cap, but I do think that at some point, the bonus of adding more creatures to a stack should diminish. Right now the scale is linear: 8 genies can make 8x as many illusory hit points as 1 genie. Perhaps at some point (e.g. two weeks' worth of creatures) the added benefit of each subsequent creature should decline. For instance, at 2 weeks + 1 genie, the benefit is less than a full genie (like .95x); the next genie is worth .9x; the third .85x, and so on. That way heroes would be the ones to look to for dealing out massive damage instead of gobs of magi/water elementals/genies.

[Le_Faucheur]

can you learn to the AI how to use dispel/exorcism/cancellation/steal enchantment?

[Galactygon]

I have long wanted to see these implemented (or even tested):

- Spellcasting for Efreeti and Monks. I don't see any problem with using the (ranged) attack animations for spellcasting. All castles have spellcasting creatures except for life and chaos, and the reasons why Efreeti and Monks should recieve some spells is (IMO) very logical.

- No Retaliation for Devils, as in HoMM3. Maybe extend this to other teleporting creatures (Evil Sorceress, Earth Elemental) as well?

-Galactygon

[Dalai]

- No Retaliation for Devils, as in HoMM3. Maybe extend this to other teleporting creatures (Evil Sorceress, Earth Elemental) as well?

-Galactygon

Devil is very strong as it is. Hero killer. Some players even refuse to play against Death because of it. So no "no retal" for Devil.