raise dead

[Alamar]

Alamar, if you are trying to indicate that the Necropolis faction could not hold off on its own without raise dead, I would have to disagree.

<Lots of good reasons deleted>

I'm not saying that Necros couldn't hold their own but I do believe that it needs to be looked at.

In a large or XL game I may "raise dead" literally thousands of troops. If you take away that no loss tactic then other tactics will have to be developed that are likely not as effective. As such you need to make sure that these less effective tactics allow Necros to stay competitive in games that don't favor them as much [like normal difficulty games on medium sized maps]

[Caradoc]

I met Vladimir in week 4 after he had acquired a stack of 100+ Spectres (I assume by greater glory) to go with his Skeleton Archers . I had a strong army, but could not get enough hits on the Spectres to make a dint as he was raising 50-60 at a time.

[kingbudda]

hi everyone, its my first post here as I like this thread hehe.

you see, I and my friends have played all heroes games a lot! and we are big fans etc. We tried the "raise dead" thing many times in H5, as we like Necropolis, (undead, yeah!) and the funny is, the one of us who plays Necropolis ALWAYS wins, haha.

the undead simply cannot be stopped if they use the damn skill. its so sick! becuz nowdays, we deceided that we just cannot use the spell. you just have nooo chance at all against an undead necromancer with normal spellpwer/knowledge. its not just overpowered, its MEGA-overpowered
its such a shame becuz raise dead is such a cool spell...

[PhoenixReborn]

In my opinion, 3 spectral dragons are better than any two level 7 units making necropolis even more superior.

Out of what you said this I do not understand. Why are 3 spectral dragons better than 2 titans or 2 black dragons?

In general I've been able to win maps without raise dead for example Mystic Vale (I can't remember if I was on normal or hard) but I was able to beat it by conquering all my enemies. There are plenty of handy spells besides that one.

Raise dead specifically I find overpowered just in general not even for the necromancer. It's annoying as hell to have to rekill some mages when his only real troop left is an obstinate gargoyle stack that won't die.

[russianspy5727]

yeah nevermind, I added up the statistics and 2 black dragons are stronger than 3 spectral dragons, but raise dead makes up for that

[thecheese]

My suggestion would be making raise dead a level 3 spell that only raises units for the battle, living or undead. Then add in a 4th level spell, animate dead, which allows for permanent resurrection of undead only. This spell can only appear in the necromancer town, and its chance of appearing are incredibly slim. Either that, or just make it a 4th level spell that only raises any unit for the battle. No permanent undead resurrection.

In my opinion, the undead don't need permanent resurrection in any form because they already have necromancy, which gets considerably buffed in H5 with Eternal Servitude.

[russianspy5727]

[quote="thecheese"]In my opinion, the undead don't need permanent resurrection in any form because they already have necromancy, which gets considerably buffed in H5 with Eternal Servitude.[/quote]

I agree cheese

[Caradoc]

What is missing here is the Turn Undead family of spells, which would provide a countervailing force to Raise Dead. Since these spells affect only the undead, they do much greater damage than general damage spells at the same level. We are also missing artifacts that would make attacks on the undead more effective.

Add these to the game and Raise Dead will be balanced without being nerfed.

[asandir]

it certainly does make for a very hard team to beat .... they just take too few losses

[Alamar]

it certainly does make for a very hard team to beat .... they just take too few losses

Not only do they take too few losses they get [imho] way too many skeleton archers. There needs to be a better way to balance the faction so it's more fair based on both map size & resource levels.

FYI: My favorite faction at this point is undead and if I'm complaining about them being too powerful something just isn't right.

[Night_Heaven]

Hey..I am new here so excuse me but Necrpolis creatures are worst from all. I know that because I play with my syster Heroes 5 and she loves Necropolis and Vladimir as her main hero.However,Necropolis units are terrible. Even if you can ressurect 10 wighs or 5 dragons they are terrible low...
Skeletons-main force when are 500 +
Zombies- just lay on the battlefield....
Ghosts- a joke
Vampires - no more a thread
Lich - the only good archers of this town
Wight- good
Dragon- phatetic...

So,he picks vladimir and start getting spellpower for her raise dead spell.Now,when we fight last time we had this armyes and Heroes

She- Vladimir level 24- 600 skeletons archers,300 ghosts, 100 + lich, 59 wight and 40 dragons(all units upgraded)

Me - Vinrael(nature hero-2 experience bonus per level)- level 29
Army- 300 pixies, 198 blade dancers, 200 elves, 100+ druids,70+ treants and 28 dragons(all units upgraded)

Battle starts...I am waiting with all exept druids and archers and I hit her dragons and her wighs(2 targets because she will cast just once raise dead).Defensive state with treants..waiting with the rest. I manage with a lucky shott and magic from druids to take several dragons.My hero comes first and I cast mass slow.She now...attaks me with skellies and dragons and tryes to overcome me but the only spell cast by her is raise dead.Then i shoot another target and with druids another one and then with treants another one..She cast the spell on dragons(bad move) and soo on

My point is this one....nature or Academy are too strong for necropolis.Soo are Haven and Inferno...they have week abilities and the necropolis heroes get only spellpower...not good.If you don't belive me try and see I am right.

[Warlock]

Necropolis is fine - if anything they are *too* powerful. The only crap units they have are Zombies and to a lesser extent Bone/Spectral Dragons (compared with other teir 7s and their cost).

Skeleton Archers - best unit they have and you can get thousands of them very quickly
Ghosts - insane miss rate means they can really save you by wasting enemy turns
Vampires - great melee that can ressurect as they kill
Lich - great ranged with splash damage
Wight - ok as a meatshield though a little too expensive for not having any real special abilities (though I think Wraiths get a guarenteed kill each hit - so they are good for high HP stacks)

Combined with Raise Dead the Necromancer is crazy powerful. You can't say a whole faction is weak just because you beat your sister Besides which, with that army she should have steamrolled you

[thecheese]

Night_Heaven, just because you managed to beat a big Necro group doesn't mean they're the worst of the lot, or even close. Just that simple.

[Night_Heaven]

Yes..I see you're point.She actualy beats me that time . However...I hadn't all my creatures buy from town..And after i took my revenge with Academy where my artificier skill allows me to put 8 attack and deffense to all my creatures . In that battle my Titans had a lucky shot and took 15 death dragons..a pity:P And my counterspell ability don't let her raise dead..hurayyyy:D:D.

[stijn]

She- Vladimir level 24- 600 skeletons archers,300 ghosts, 100 + lich, 59 wight and 40 dragons(all units upgraded)

600 archers isn't much when you're at the point where you got 100 liches. (week 16?), you could be having 2 500 archers, especially with vladimir. now thats killing with battle frenzy and the artifact that gives +1 damage to each creature.

[thecheese]

Indeed. It's not even too difficult to get 600 before you can afford dragons, much less their upgraded form.

[Night_Heaven]

Well she had more than a half in her castle.Her zombies in the castle too.However i have a question..why I can't counterspell that banshee goul?

[Orfinn]

because that is a special ability wich again arent counted as a spell by counterspell.

[DaemianLucifer]

In a month you can easilly get 1000+ skel archers.With vlad,you can do this even without losses.Just throw all of your creatures out of the battle and squash them with archers.Mark of the necromancer ensures that you dont even loose mana in any battle.So free raise dead combined with thousands of skel archers and vladimir,means no army can defeat you,because your enemy has to kill over 200 skelies before vlads every turn.

[Orfinn]

which is quite a task, even for a powerful warlock like sinitar or any other faction Well Haven may be one of few towns good enough to withstand Vladimirs armada of skeletons, or maybe inferno too since they also focus on great numbers. One wrong move by exposing your skeleton archers and you are toast! Thanks to the gating ability