The little things you miss from previous HOMM games

[DaemianLucifer]

I've skimmed through all the posts on this thread, and I noticed that no one mentioned simultaneous vs retaliation strikes. I thought the Heroes IV fight system was pretty well done. I also loved the idea of "first strike" as well as how you could protect your archers by having units in the way of enemy fire. Personally, I prefer the old battle system but it'd be interesting to see how H-5 would change if the battle system had been the same as H-IV.

Sim retal beats turn retal any time.But it still isnt the perfect solution.Check out this one.I think its better than simretal.

[MrSteamTank]

I've skimmed through all the posts on this thread, and I noticed that no one mentioned simultaneous vs retaliation strikes. I thought the Heroes IV fight system was pretty well done. I also loved the idea of "first strike" as well as how you could protect your archers by having units in the way of enemy fire. Personally, I prefer the old battle system but it'd be interesting to see how H-5 would change if the battle system had been the same as H-IV.

Sim retal beats turn retal any time.But it still isnt the perfect solution.Check out this one.I think its better than simretal.

The only problem with heroes IV was that hero hp was far too valuable. You could reduce attacking army damage by such a large extent that a healing ability/healing tent/potion would be like 10-20 times more effective(imbalanced). I don't mind the heroes IV hero in combat system but I'd definitely incoorporate a get out of combat option(along with a in battle combat skillset). So you can enter or exit combat with your hero. This way if you really wanted to your hero could be a combat powerhouse that would enter combat and dominate or have him out of combat and not be as effective. Then if all your units die you still have a chance to win because your hero will automatically be placed in combat.

[Wombatfeatures]

... some things and then he wrote:

- One word: "Blah!"

Speaking of "Blah" why do Vampires attack with a sword? If they're going to suck your blood in order to regenerate they shouldn't have a weapon of any kind! They never did in any of the other HOMMs!

[DaemianLucifer]

Speaking of "Blah" why do Vampires attack with a sword? If they're going to suck your blood in order to regenerate they shouldn't have a weapon of any kind! They never did in any of the other HOMMs!

The claw one from HIII was the best.A true monster.The sucker from HIV looked nice,but the attack was awful.These look both nice and dumb at the same time.The green colour kills them.But them licking a sword after a blow would be more interesting as an attack

[Mightor Magic]

Well remembered and never forgotten:

Caravans and flagable locations
Caravans and flagable locations
Caravans and flagable locations

Would it really destroy the entire blancing when these two would be reintegrated (maybe even in a patch and not until Heroes 6000) ?

I've never played Heroes 4 but I guess a "flagable location" would be similar to a gold mine that gave gold once a week or a mine that gave a random resource once a week. What would be the point? Sounds like horrible game design to me: "Oh, lets keep those mills and windmills but lets give the player the ability to use them as mines."

Misses the point of why Creature Dwellings, Mills and Windmills were placed in the first game to begin with, alongside mines: You don't have to take them every week but the rewards go to the player with initiative.


Caravans? Between Town Portal and Instant Gating, I could get everything I needed done in the first day of Heroes 3 but I think the Summon Creatures spell is a good replacement for such a cheap tactic. Given that Summon Creatues only works on the nearest castle, I would say it's better than "caravans" as my hero doesn't even have to enter the castle just be closer to that one than one of my other castles.


What do I miss from Heroes 5 from earlier Heroes? The ability to learn every spell in that Mage guild I just built {Wisdom was always a given}. "I have One Magic but my Guild has Two and Three? Oh, *****." happens too often to me so either I take two magic skills or none at all.

I also miss the Heroes with those crazy specialties like Crag Hack or Loynis. Sure, having a hero that actually gets 1 def and and 1 attack every other level for their particular unit is good but I miss those wacky Attack and Defense abilities.

Oh, and Prayer, that was a good one. Where is it? And how about a spell that increases an army's range {Speed as in Heroes 3 Haste} and not initiative? The title is Might and Magic after all. And Precision which increased Ranged Attack?

[DaemianLucifer]

I've never played Heroes 4 but I guess a "flagable location" would be similar to a gold mine that gave gold once a week or a mine that gave a random resource once a week. What would be the point? Sounds like horrible game design to me: "Oh, lets keep those mills and windmills but lets give the player the ability to use them as mines."

Misses the point of why Creature Dwellings, Mills and Windmills were placed in the first game to begin with, alongside mines: You don't have to take them every week but the rewards go to the player with initiative.

No,it rewards the hero that can stand micromanagment,and thats not a good thing.And they differ from mines because they dont give you resources every day,and not same resources too.And your argument can go other way to:Why flaging mines?You dont have to take them every day,but the rewards go to the player with initiative.If there was a waypoint system Id have nothing against unflagable windmills though.

Caravans? Between Town Portal and Instant Gating, I could get everything I needed done in the first day of Heroes 3 but I think the Summon Creatures spell is a good replacement for such a cheap tactic. Given that Summon Creatues only works on the nearest castle, I would say it's better than "caravans" as my hero doesn't even have to enter the castle just be closer to that one than one of my other castles.

TP and DD were overpowered.Summon creature would be nice if it didnt cost 1 mana for every creature,no matter the tier.And caravans also allowed you to collect your dwellings without tedious micromanagment.

What do I miss from Heroes 5 from earlier Heroes? The ability to learn every spell in that Mage guild I just built {Wisdom was always a given}. "I have One Magic but my Guild has Two and Three? Oh, *****." happens too often to me so either I take two magic skills or none at all.

I hated that one.I hate this one too.The HIV magic system was the best.Dont have chaos magic?Too bad,but no fireball for you.It makes you specialise your casters and makes magic skills even more valuable.

Oh, and Prayer, that was a good one. Where is it? And how about a spell that increases an army's range {Speed as in Heroes 3 Haste} and not initiative? The title is Might and Magic after all. And Precision which increased Ranged Attack?

Ahh,the good old prayer.I miss it.But initiative boosters are quite enough.Imagine those blood furries getting even greater range.

[Akul]

They have a sense. They give a little sum of resources every week after ocupation.

And Summon Creature spell and caravans are not the same. You mised the point. Caravans are used to get creatures from town to town and from dweligs to towns.

[Gaidal Cain]

I've never played Heroes 4 but I guess a "flagable location" would be similar to a gold mine that gave gold once a week or a mine that gave a random resource once a week. What would be the point? Sounds like horrible game design to me: "Oh, lets keep those mills and windmills but lets give the player the ability to use them as mines.".

Misses the point of why Creature Dwellings, Mills and Windmills were placed in the first game to begin with, alongside mines: You don't have to take them every week but the rewards go to the player with initiative.

Escept that for the most part, those locations are in positions were there is no competition. Then it's only a boring task of having to visit each and every one of them if one wishes to use them.

Caravans? Between Town Portal and Instant Gating, I could get everything I needed done in the first day of Heroes 3 but I think the Summon Creatures spell is a good replacement for such a cheap tactic. Given that Summon Creatues only works on the nearest castle, I would say it's better than "caravans" as my hero doesn't even have to enter the castle just be closer to that one than one of my other castles.

Dim Door and Town Portal has thankfully been nerfed so that they don't rule the adventure amp as they used to. And Summon creature only works towards the nearest town, so it can't be used to atuomate sending troops from one end of the map to the other, or auto-collect creature from a number of dwellings.

What do I miss from Heroes 5 from earlier Heroes? The ability to learn every spell in that Mage guild I just built {Wisdom was always a given}. "I have One Magic but my Guild has Two and Three? Oh, *****." happens too often to me so either I take two magic skills or none at all.

You do know that every town has two assoicated schools and will give one spell from each of those at every level so you don't have to guess, right? And the same applied in H3 as well. "Oh you took Water Magic but only got frenzy and Counterstrike? too bad for you!"

[Mightor Magic]

I always thought that the point of turn based strategy games was micromanagement. Otherwise, why not play a RTS?

Millls/Waterwheels versus Mills: Small resources verses steady income. If you make the small resources flagable that why bother putting them in the map at all?

Spell schools: For me, it will always be a matter of what I want for my army type and not what my Guild will give me. Yes, I've noticed that each faction has at least two steady spell schools that always appear at the top but I would still like to learn every spell in the Tower even if I don't cast them.

Blood Furies with the real Haste spell would be a terror but imagine Blood Furies with an actual Slow spell {less Range}. The Heroes 3 spell system was always something of a chess match, countering a mass haste with mass slow. There is something wrong with the Heroes 5 spell system such that spell schools concentrate on blesses, curses, summons or attack. Obvious from the names but it makes for boring spellcasting and counterspells. Take Fire from Heroes 3: Bloodlust, Curse, Fire Elemental and well, Fireball. Bless, curse, summon and attack in one spell type.

Not really much of a chance for a surprise spell in Heroes 5. Well, I had a wizard once that had both Summon Phoenix and Puppet Master but that took two skill slots, a waste for some people.

So, what I would really like to come back are Spell skills that can vie with Luck, Logictics and whatever for your skill selection. Which means more spells that can simulate skills such as Morale and Luck or a spell that could change mana into movement points {favors the Wizard or any character with a lot of knowledge but Summon Creature is the same}. Or just more spells period.

[Gus]

I always thought that the point of turn based strategy games was micromanagement. Otherwise, why not play a RTS?

Cause some of us think that strategy doesn't equal "clickfest"?

[cornellian]

I've never played Heroes 4 but I guess a "flagable location" would be similar to a gold mine that gave gold once a week or a mine that gave a random resource once a week.

Misses the point of why Creature Dwellings, Mills and Windmills were placed in the first game to begin with, alongside mines: You don't have to take them every week but the rewards go to the player with initiative.

Well, if you had played the game that you are criticizing, you would have seen that after a month or two in the game, when your 'lands' include three mills and five dwellings, visiting every one of them every single week became rather a chore, and HoMM IV's automated system saved everyone a lot of boredom and time.

People that have played Settlers I and II will remember, there were scenarios that lasted for a good 25+ hours, and still things were automated, because the guys at Blue Byte had realized a decade ago what Nival still couldn't...

[Sikon]

Hang on, H5 did not completely ignore H4.

1. Haven.
2. Academy.
3. Squires.
4. Altar of Light.
5. Nightmares.
6. Skill-Ability system.
7. Shooter retaliation (limited though it may be).
8. Hero's turn, direct participation in combat (again, to a limited extent).
9. Surface irregularities.
10. ???
11. [Insert obvious joke here]

[DaemianLucifer]

I always thought that the point of turn based strategy games was micromanagement. Otherwise, why not play a RTS?

Errr...No.Its caled a turn based STRATEGY not a turn base MICROMANAGMENT GAME.Theres a bit difference between strategy and tedious micromanagment.If they made an automated heroes via a way point system,that would be strategy.This is not.

Millls/Waterwheels versus Mills: Small resources verses steady income. If you make the small resources flagable that why bother putting them in the map at all?

And why putting mines one the map?Why 7 resources,why not just one?And why different creatures,why not just one?

Spell schools: For me, it will always be a matter of what I want for my army type and not what my Guild will give me. Yes, I've noticed that each faction has at least two steady spell schools that always appear at the top but I would still like to learn every spell in the Tower even if I don't cast them.

Then plan your hero for your army,dont just go around waiting to get all the spells.If you have a fast but rather weak army,plan someone with haste or a master of ice/lightning or with boosters like righteous might.If your army is slow but strong,grab resurrection,or slow.

Blood Furies with the real Haste spell would be a terror but imagine Blood Furies with an actual Slow spell {less Range}. The Heroes 3 spell system was always something of a chess match, countering a mass haste with mass slow. There is something wrong with the Heroes 5 spell system such that spell schools concentrate on blesses, curses, summons or attack. Obvious from the names but it makes for boring spellcasting and counterspells. Take Fire from Heroes 3: Bloodlust, Curse, Fire Elemental and well, Fireball. Bless, curse, summon and attack in one spell type.

Errr...No,HIII was always something like "He who plays first wins".Thats not chess.

Not really much of a chance for a surprise spell in Heroes 5. Well, I had a wizard once that had both Summon Phoenix and Puppet Master but that took two skill slots, a waste for some people.

Thats because you didnt focus.You should make your hero the way you play the best.Puppet master allows you to minimize losses by making your enemy fight its own troops,while summon phoenix minimize your losses by making your enemy fight "illusionary" monsters.Both do the same(minimize your losses)but in a different way.Choose the one that suits you best and go for it.

So, what I would really like to come back are Spell skills that can vie with Luck, Logictics and whatever for your skill selection. Which means more spells that can simulate skills such as Morale and Luck or a spell that could change mana into movement points {favors the Wizard or any character with a lot of knowledge but Summon Creature is the same}. Or just more spells period.

Here I agree.The spells arent very numerous and inovative.HIV had the best spells though,and most useful ones too.

[jeff]

I always thought that the point of turn based strategy games was micromanagement. Otherwise, why not play a RTS?

That's a unique outlook, IMO wrong but unique. The caravans eliminated mundane tasks not just of collecting creatures from dwellings, but also moving creatures to the frontline cities from those cities there was no longer a need to protect. H-IV's improvement also had a strategic weakness, they could be blocked, so you had to plan is it worth the time to clear out the opposing forces blocking your supply routes or write them off. So caravans were not a guaranteed endless supply, but one that may need to be maintained and protected, that’s strategy. What H-V does would be the same as if the company president had to go to each department to find out if they needed paper for their printers. Whoa I’d better be careful I might give Nival some bad ideas.

[dbmayur]

I also miss sending a creature out to the farms to pick up my peasants...only heroes can do that...i also can't get my army to come to my hero!!!
wwaaaahh!

[underkoffer]

I also miss sending a creature out to the farms to pick up my peasants...only heroes can do that...i also can't get my army to come to my hero!!!
wwaaaahh!

Hello everybody ! new blood here.....

I agree, this is what I really miss in HV, I loved it that my creatures could walk on their own and you could use them as cheap scouts, to see whatever bad **** was lurking in the shadows without putting yourself in danger !

[ThunderTitan]

Hello everybody ! new blood here.....

BLAH!

2 TT's come back to life



Sending a lvl1 to scout the map was kinda cheap.

[jeff]

I always thought that the point of turn based strategy games was micromanagement. Otherwise, why not play a RTS

No that's why you play sim city, so you can micromanage sewerage and waste recycling if you wish. Caesar did not run around to every little hovel collecting taxes he had underlings doing this, those underlings were automated by having the caravans and flagged resources collecting items for you. Caravans could be blocked, and then you had to unblock them, that's what a general lead army is for. If you want to play underling go ahead, don’t use the caravans if they end up being added, but most of us prefer to plot strategy on the strategic level and build empires leaving the mundane to the peons.

[StMichael]

I always thought that the point of turn based strategy games was micromanagement. Otherwise, why not play a RTS

No that's why you play sim city, so you can micromanage sewerage and waste recycling if you wish. Caesar did not run around to every little hovel collecting taxes he had underlings doing this, those underlings were automated by having the caravans and flagged resources collecting items for you. Caravans could be blocked, and then you had to unblock them, that's what a general lead army is for. If you want to play underling go ahead, don’t use the caravans if they end up being added, but most of us prefer to plot strategy on the strategic level and build empires leaving the mundane to the peons.

I realy liked the caravan stuff in heroes 4. It was more easy to transport creatures quickly and safe from a castle to another one and from dwelings to castles.

[Angrilmor]

Too many things but first and foremost the caravans
And after reading the thread. Yes.
BLAH