Maybe it is (another) spelling error.DaemianLucifer wrote:What?Gaidal Cain wrote:apparantly, "Week of Whales" increase ghost growth
It should be "Week of Wails"
Inferno Campaign, Map 3: The Conquest
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Qurqirish Dragon
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Gaidal Cain
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Qurqirish Dragon
- Genie
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I've been playing on normal, and I have not have any problems so far (I'm on Dungeon campaign #2, and I just eliminated my last opponent, so this map is effectively done). I tend to play (and have been playing) very conservatively- exploring everything, securing my territory before expanding, and so on. Although I have come across some strong enemies, I haven't had much difficulty. The worst was in the Inferno campaign, where in a few maps I needed to take a "wave" approach for some enemies- send an expendable hero with a strong force in to weaken the hero, and then send Agrael in to finish him off (and get the artifacts). I took care for my extra hero to flee/surrender, so that I could give him some artifacts, and build a few levels through neutrals on him.Metathron wrote:This is a ridiculously difficult scenario, even on normal. I reckon it might be frustrating for many new players as well as some veterans. Rather than play it for the third time, I reached for the cheat codes.
this map
I am quite the HIII veteran, and found everything up to this map fairly boring, but I officially gave up on this map on "hard" last night and breezed through it on normal. I'm looking forward to getting home tonight and trying out Rapier's recommendations. Finishing this map on "heroic" is truly impressive. I am concerned that it might be key to get "mass slow" and I'm not sure I can get master of curses....we'll see.
I also like the "rush the druids" strategy. I tried that once and failed but it might be a plausible plan of attack, just not properly executed.
I also like the "rush the druids" strategy. I tried that once and failed but it might be a plausible plan of attack, just not properly executed.
On 1.1 heroic I let Gilraen take back that southern sylvan town. It was anyway week 4 of first month, and he was carrying almost 100 master hunter with other troops, couldn't do anything. Was building my inferno though, and got also lv.3 mage guild for summon critters.
Anyway, as said, let him took the town, and he decided to stay there a bit. Bought all inferno army I could and went straight to the north eastern sylvan town (one where Gilraen came from). It was fully built luckily. Gilraen still stayed in town.
Now bought 4 emeralds, and 10 ancient treants and went west for last sylvan town. Also summoned all I could've from inferno. Was a tough fight, barelly survived, but managed somehow...and now had two sylvan towns. Inferno troops not needed anymore.
But now Gilraen decided to hunt me and had to use little trick. Basically running from western to eastern town and back. Gilraen did the same, but on southern road, never catching me. He could've easily taken back sylvan towns, but seems his priority was catching me. Oh well. Good for me.
Eventually he went back to south sylvan town, and stayed there till the end of game. Now was just a matter of time to get more troops than him and end the scenario.
Maybe in future will try different approach, like getting mages next to crystal mine, then earth elems and then second sylvan town. Now didn't liked that way, as there were horde of e.elems, and my army wasn't that great (not enough time to build either inferno or that sylvan town).
Anyway, as said, let him took the town, and he decided to stay there a bit. Bought all inferno army I could and went straight to the north eastern sylvan town (one where Gilraen came from). It was fully built luckily. Gilraen still stayed in town.
Now bought 4 emeralds, and 10 ancient treants and went west for last sylvan town. Also summoned all I could've from inferno. Was a tough fight, barelly survived, but managed somehow...and now had two sylvan towns. Inferno troops not needed anymore.
But now Gilraen decided to hunt me and had to use little trick. Basically running from western to eastern town and back. Gilraen did the same, but on southern road, never catching me. He could've easily taken back sylvan towns, but seems his priority was catching me. Oh well. Good for me.
Eventually he went back to south sylvan town, and stayed there till the end of game. Now was just a matter of time to get more troops than him and end the scenario.
Maybe in future will try different approach, like getting mages next to crystal mine, then earth elems and then second sylvan town. Now didn't liked that way, as there were horde of e.elems, and my army wasn't that great (not enough time to build either inferno or that sylvan town).
kudos to Rapier
and his unnamed flatmate. On hard 1.1 it went well last night. The key was waiting to take the 1st elf town as mentioned on week 2 day 1. Then, my little twist was I had my succubi sit out the battle with the mages, because I knew I'd need them for the ensuing fight with the earth elementals (who have unlimited retaliation).
I took the 2nd town and by the end of the next week, I actually took the 3rd town as well (Gilraen wasn't home).
He returned to assault his old castle a couple days later, and actually had impressive collection of master hunters, druids, and sprites (with 2 dragons and several unis), but my treants and being in a castle made the difference.
Of note, storming the druids wouldn't have worked for me as their treant guardians were #'d in the 30's and it would've been quite awhile for me to be able to take that down. Also, my supply lines from elf town #1 were immediately cut off by hordes of sprites.
I never got mass slow (must've made a bad decision earlier) and my other regret is that I didn't max level (finished at lev 19), but from what I've seen of the other maps, maybe that degree of handicap will make the rest of the campaign more fun. Thanks again for the strategic tips of what seemed to be an impossible task.
I took the 2nd town and by the end of the next week, I actually took the 3rd town as well (Gilraen wasn't home).
He returned to assault his old castle a couple days later, and actually had impressive collection of master hunters, druids, and sprites (with 2 dragons and several unis), but my treants and being in a castle made the difference.
Of note, storming the druids wouldn't have worked for me as their treant guardians were #'d in the 30's and it would've been quite awhile for me to be able to take that down. Also, my supply lines from elf town #1 were immediately cut off by hordes of sprites.
I never got mass slow (must've made a bad decision earlier) and my other regret is that I didn't max level (finished at lev 19), but from what I've seen of the other maps, maybe that degree of handicap will make the rest of the campaign more fun. Thanks again for the strategic tips of what seemed to be an impossible task.
Some notes on this map which is a bit tougher than previous ones:
Speed and choosing your battles carefully are crucial. Try to take enemy towns as fast as possible and set up hero chains for troop transfer and efficient scouting.
It is very much possible to take the South castle on day 2 and the North West castle on day 7 but you will need to hurry. Once Inferno troops are exhausted, switch to Sylvan and hit the North East castle once you have a another week's worth of Sylvan troops. Once Gilraen is defeated, you can take your time killing off the Druids at the center of the map.
Go early and you won't have to face a computer opponent with Treants or Dragons.
Expert Logistics and Expert Gating are especially nice skills to have. Expert Attack with Battle Frenzy, Archery helps considerably too.
With your initial army makeup, it is much easier to tackle walkers (especially slow and large ones), for example: Unicorns, Treants, Earth Elementals.
Use gating to get expendable troops and place these strategically to lure enemy stacks away from your main force. Ideally, your Succubi and hero (and Pit Fiends if you took them as bonus) should be able to tackle the enemy stacks one at a time, whittling them down sufficiently before Hell Hounds or another unit deal the finishing blow.
Phantom Forces is a nice spell to have as well though Gating should give you enough fake stacks to block walkers.
Avoid Phoenixes and Magi. Fast flyers and shooters will cripple your early army even if you win.
Against the above walker stacks, you should be able to win with very few casualties if at all and the North West castle should not be too problematic if you reach it in week 1.
After being forced to fight a group of Druids blocking the way to the North East castle which dealt considerable damage to my Inferno troops I switched over to Sylvan troops for the battle Vs Gilraen.
Above all bear in mind that Agrael's job is to take castles as fast as possible. All other duties like troop transfer, scouting, picking up resources and mines should ideally be done by other heroes.
Beware morale penalties when mixing Inferno and Sylvan troops. Sometimes having less troops (no Inferno units) is actually better if it would ascertain that your Sylvan units get to move every turn.
Key damage dealing Sylvan units are Hunters and Druids. So try to build up a good number of them from castle and external dwellings and protect them as best as you can. You should not lose a single one of them preferably, before your battle with Gilraen.
Played on Heroic, unpatched version and finished in 18 days.
Speed and choosing your battles carefully are crucial. Try to take enemy towns as fast as possible and set up hero chains for troop transfer and efficient scouting.
It is very much possible to take the South castle on day 2 and the North West castle on day 7 but you will need to hurry. Once Inferno troops are exhausted, switch to Sylvan and hit the North East castle once you have a another week's worth of Sylvan troops. Once Gilraen is defeated, you can take your time killing off the Druids at the center of the map.
Go early and you won't have to face a computer opponent with Treants or Dragons.
Expert Logistics and Expert Gating are especially nice skills to have. Expert Attack with Battle Frenzy, Archery helps considerably too.
With your initial army makeup, it is much easier to tackle walkers (especially slow and large ones), for example: Unicorns, Treants, Earth Elementals.
Use gating to get expendable troops and place these strategically to lure enemy stacks away from your main force. Ideally, your Succubi and hero (and Pit Fiends if you took them as bonus) should be able to tackle the enemy stacks one at a time, whittling them down sufficiently before Hell Hounds or another unit deal the finishing blow.
Phantom Forces is a nice spell to have as well though Gating should give you enough fake stacks to block walkers.
Avoid Phoenixes and Magi. Fast flyers and shooters will cripple your early army even if you win.
Against the above walker stacks, you should be able to win with very few casualties if at all and the North West castle should not be too problematic if you reach it in week 1.
After being forced to fight a group of Druids blocking the way to the North East castle which dealt considerable damage to my Inferno troops I switched over to Sylvan troops for the battle Vs Gilraen.
Above all bear in mind that Agrael's job is to take castles as fast as possible. All other duties like troop transfer, scouting, picking up resources and mines should ideally be done by other heroes.
Beware morale penalties when mixing Inferno and Sylvan troops. Sometimes having less troops (no Inferno units) is actually better if it would ascertain that your Sylvan units get to move every turn.
Key damage dealing Sylvan units are Hunters and Druids. So try to build up a good number of them from castle and external dwellings and protect them as best as you can. You should not lose a single one of them preferably, before your battle with Gilraen.
Played on Heroic, unpatched version and finished in 18 days.
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DaemianLucifer
- Round Table Hero
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I have read similar problems occur when players skip the first Sylvan town (the South one) which appears to fudge the objective to kill Gilraen.
I took the South town first and had no problems completing the objectives.
The map designers probably thought it would be logical for everyone to take the first Sylvan town they saw and based the Druid trigger on it. Not very good design obviously.
I took the South town first and had no problems completing the objectives.
The map designers probably thought it would be logical for everyone to take the first Sylvan town they saw and based the Druid trigger on it. Not very good design obviously.
Taking the towns....
I've been playing M&M since back in the "olden days" of the Commodore 64. (Yeah, prehistoric times) One common thread of all the games has been the puzzle aspect...if one approach doesn't work, try something completely different.
I hate to cheat, but will resort to a hint if I'm stumped. The walkthrough here provided just that...the clue really is to avoid taking the most obvious route of capturing the towns before you are ready....the first town you capture triggers the secondary mission object of the druid population explosion. This causes you to waste time and forces fighting the map AND the scenario.
It's really that simple....I stayed away from capturing the towns till I had enough resorces to build up the inferno town, hired sufficient heroes to act as relay for troops or scouts to cover the map, and when I started taking the towns, did it quickly to avoid generating hordes of miscellaneous Sylvan roadblocks.
One more hint...the town in the northwestern corner of the map has a good supply of resources just to the east, and southwest of the druid circle is a Hill Fort that allows you to upgrade your troops. Of course, the Earth Elementals have to be eliminated in order to get there, but seems to be the key route. I haven't determined if Gilraen's held in check by the same trigger as the Druids, but noticed he failed to advance physically and strenght-wise until after the first Sylvan town was taken.
Hope this helps...know how frustrating it is when you just can't seem to find the right path.
I hate to cheat, but will resort to a hint if I'm stumped. The walkthrough here provided just that...the clue really is to avoid taking the most obvious route of capturing the towns before you are ready....the first town you capture triggers the secondary mission object of the druid population explosion. This causes you to waste time and forces fighting the map AND the scenario.
It's really that simple....I stayed away from capturing the towns till I had enough resorces to build up the inferno town, hired sufficient heroes to act as relay for troops or scouts to cover the map, and when I started taking the towns, did it quickly to avoid generating hordes of miscellaneous Sylvan roadblocks.
One more hint...the town in the northwestern corner of the map has a good supply of resources just to the east, and southwest of the druid circle is a Hill Fort that allows you to upgrade your troops. Of course, the Earth Elementals have to be eliminated in order to get there, but seems to be the key route. I haven't determined if Gilraen's held in check by the same trigger as the Druids, but noticed he failed to advance physically and strenght-wise until after the first Sylvan town was taken.
Hope this helps...know how frustrating it is when you just can't seem to find the right path.
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Lady Farquad
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- Location: Hispanic heaven
Taking towns...
(I don't know what happened to my first post, sorry if this one is redundant)
After killing the druids I headed for the NE sylvan castle only to find Gilrael with a huge army, say 10 to 1 compared to mine (exclusively inferno).
So I had my secondary hero (4th level) gathered all the sylvan armies (from both castles) and fight every sylvan stack (by then, the entire map was swarming with sprites, hunters, druids etc.)
It was fun playing a weak hero with such a big army. Won every battle with no loses and went up 1 or 2 levels after each.
I did this preparing her to fight and weaken Gilrael a little (kill as many of his range units as possible) before sending Agrael.
Unfortunately when Deleb was level 19 - after a few days, believe me! - the sylvan heroes headed south for the castle...
Agrael just walked into the final castle, after slapping a lonely sprite.
After killing the druids I headed for the NE sylvan castle only to find Gilrael with a huge army, say 10 to 1 compared to mine (exclusively inferno).
So I had my secondary hero (4th level) gathered all the sylvan armies (from both castles) and fight every sylvan stack (by then, the entire map was swarming with sprites, hunters, druids etc.)
It was fun playing a weak hero with such a big army. Won every battle with no loses and went up 1 or 2 levels after each.
I did this preparing her to fight and weaken Gilrael a little (kill as many of his range units as possible) before sending Agrael.
Unfortunately when Deleb was level 19 - after a few days, believe me! - the sylvan heroes headed south for the castle...
Agrael just walked into the final castle, after slapping a lonely sprite.
Some talk about killing mages and druids. I really have no idea how those are possible. Magi are simply impossible to kill, at least they do so much damage it's unfuny... and druids the same. 34 magi (8m+9m+9am+8am) killed my whole inferno army in like 1 round... they all did like 150ish damage. I do not even dare to attack druids to take the third town or kill the druids for the matter...
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DaemianLucifer
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Hy everyone,
after several failed attempts (hard difficulty), I finished this map with somewhat different approach. Since taking the first elven town will trigger druids, I avoided it completely. Took all the mines, went east first, past the Sylvan town until I reached that huge zombie pack. Turned back and went the other way, where Phoenixes are. Captured all mines and killed all packs guarding chests and gold piles, then headed back to Inferno town. It took me a couple of weeks, in the meantime I had fully upgraded inferno town.
Picked up all units I could and headed back towards Phoenixes. Now there is a turn to the east, just before Phoenix spot, where mages guard some crap resources, have to kill them to move on. This opened a path to few emerald dragons guarding Scroll of Frenzy (and passage to NE town). I wanted that badly. On hard, Gilraen comes out after 21 days, I managed to get there on day 20. There were 7 dragons in 2 stacks, I suffered minimal losses thanks to Expert Gating and Phantom Forces, took the scroll and headed south toward 1st sylvan town. Picked up few nice artifacts and heaps of gold that weren't heavily guarded.
Gilraen come straight after me but could not catch me. For next couple of weeks we were running circles, in the process I set up a relay team and get all reinforcements out of inferno town. While circling, I noticed that NE town was still heavily guarded, so I decided to turn NW, through Earth Elementals. I caught them off guard there, killed some noob hero and found 5 emerald dragons available for hire
At the end of week 6, Gilraen found me.
Dwellings increase. I picked up 2 more dragons and about 10 treants, rest included some 35 succubi, 30 cerberi, 14 nigtmares, 200 horned demons and about 200 familiars. Gilraen must have picked up some reinforcements coz he came in great numbers: 9 dragons, 25 trants, 45 unicorns, 200 hunters, 70 druids, 300 war dancers and about 400 sprites. I don't think I would stand a chance without Frenzy. 1st round - I gated all I could to fill in the space within the fort to prevent dragons from barging in. Familiars drained Gilraen's mana dry, he was left with pidliy 13 mana. I was lucky to not have one single Frenzy fumble. Hunters killed druids, dancers killed sprites, dragons killed unicorns in 2 attempts, dancers killed hunters, treants halved dragons, dancers halved treants...at the end some 150 dancers and about 5 treants broke through the walls. It was tough, I was left with 50 horned demons and couple of cerberi and succubi. I bought what was of troops left in sylvan town and headed east. 1st objective ticked off.
All sylvan heroes gathered around southern town. I managed to take out weakly defended NE town just before end of the week. Another sylvan hero was coming my way, fresh with troops. Frenzy saved my butt once more, I gathered 2 dragons, 60 hunters, 25 druids, 9 treants, 12 unicorns, some 60 dancers and 50 horned demons. Second wave army was not so huge as Gilraen's but the problem was I didn't have any gated monsters to fill the fort yard. Dragons and sprites messed me up pretty havily. Sylvan army had 6 dragons, 15 treants, 25 unicorns, 120 dancers, 90 hunters and 600 sprites. Luckily, my ranged units were unreachable to both dragons and sprites. Treants managed to tangle sprites long enough to kill them with druids & hunters. Dragons kiled the druids, but hunters did the job before the walls tumbled, only survivors.
With majority of sylvan forces destroyed, completing the rest of objectives was easy. Waited another week for reinforcments from both sylvan towns, killed the druids and stormed to take the southern town. Pretty tough map, very tight on timing, I would assume newcomers to the game will have major problems on this one
after several failed attempts (hard difficulty), I finished this map with somewhat different approach. Since taking the first elven town will trigger druids, I avoided it completely. Took all the mines, went east first, past the Sylvan town until I reached that huge zombie pack. Turned back and went the other way, where Phoenixes are. Captured all mines and killed all packs guarding chests and gold piles, then headed back to Inferno town. It took me a couple of weeks, in the meantime I had fully upgraded inferno town.
Picked up all units I could and headed back towards Phoenixes. Now there is a turn to the east, just before Phoenix spot, where mages guard some crap resources, have to kill them to move on. This opened a path to few emerald dragons guarding Scroll of Frenzy (and passage to NE town). I wanted that badly. On hard, Gilraen comes out after 21 days, I managed to get there on day 20. There were 7 dragons in 2 stacks, I suffered minimal losses thanks to Expert Gating and Phantom Forces, took the scroll and headed south toward 1st sylvan town. Picked up few nice artifacts and heaps of gold that weren't heavily guarded.
Gilraen come straight after me but could not catch me. For next couple of weeks we were running circles, in the process I set up a relay team and get all reinforcements out of inferno town. While circling, I noticed that NE town was still heavily guarded, so I decided to turn NW, through Earth Elementals. I caught them off guard there, killed some noob hero and found 5 emerald dragons available for hire
At the end of week 6, Gilraen found me.Dwellings increase. I picked up 2 more dragons and about 10 treants, rest included some 35 succubi, 30 cerberi, 14 nigtmares, 200 horned demons and about 200 familiars. Gilraen must have picked up some reinforcements coz he came in great numbers: 9 dragons, 25 trants, 45 unicorns, 200 hunters, 70 druids, 300 war dancers and about 400 sprites. I don't think I would stand a chance without Frenzy. 1st round - I gated all I could to fill in the space within the fort to prevent dragons from barging in. Familiars drained Gilraen's mana dry, he was left with pidliy 13 mana. I was lucky to not have one single Frenzy fumble. Hunters killed druids, dancers killed sprites, dragons killed unicorns in 2 attempts, dancers killed hunters, treants halved dragons, dancers halved treants...at the end some 150 dancers and about 5 treants broke through the walls. It was tough, I was left with 50 horned demons and couple of cerberi and succubi. I bought what was of troops left in sylvan town and headed east. 1st objective ticked off.
All sylvan heroes gathered around southern town. I managed to take out weakly defended NE town just before end of the week. Another sylvan hero was coming my way, fresh with troops. Frenzy saved my butt once more, I gathered 2 dragons, 60 hunters, 25 druids, 9 treants, 12 unicorns, some 60 dancers and 50 horned demons. Second wave army was not so huge as Gilraen's but the problem was I didn't have any gated monsters to fill the fort yard. Dragons and sprites messed me up pretty havily. Sylvan army had 6 dragons, 15 treants, 25 unicorns, 120 dancers, 90 hunters and 600 sprites. Luckily, my ranged units were unreachable to both dragons and sprites. Treants managed to tangle sprites long enough to kill them with druids & hunters. Dragons kiled the druids, but hunters did the job before the walls tumbled, only survivors.
With majority of sylvan forces destroyed, completing the rest of objectives was easy. Waited another week for reinforcments from both sylvan towns, killed the druids and stormed to take the southern town. Pretty tough map, very tight on timing, I would assume newcomers to the game will have major problems on this one
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Lady Farquad
- Scout
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- Location: Hispanic heaven
A word on nightmares
Don't forget two characteristics of nightmares: They have very high moral and there's a chance the attacked unit will run away in fear, without inflicting any retaliation damage.csarmi wrote:Aha.
I probably should have stared wth nightmares. Most of my hell hounds are dead now, however. Can't really upgrade them anyways. hm I could have gotten a few but getting back to that castle...
Having a secondary hero to bring troops for Agrael may be a little boring, but at the end those extra nightmares (+3 after finding the orange key) might be the difference.
You can always choose to switch Agrael to a sylvan army, you'll see it's consistent with the plot.
I didn't because I love inferno troops and my Agrael had no leadership
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DaemianLucifer
- Round Table Hero
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Re: A word on nightmares
But you have to be careful though.If you strike fear into the bones of a creature youve just stollen retaliation from,it will again be able to retaliate.Plus,if its a ranged creature,it will again be able to shoot,since no one is adjacent.Lady Farquad wrote:Don't forget two characteristics of nightmares: They have very high moral and there's a chance the attacked unit will run away in fear, without inflicting any retaliation damage.
Neither did mine,but my troops were so powerfull it didnt matter.Lady Farquad wrote: I didn't because I love inferno troops and my Agrael had no leadership
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