My Necropolis Guide

[Alamar]

Trusting in the fact that you'll get Vladimir/Raise Dead and be able to cast it in every battle will most likely result in you loosing badly when you can't.

.

In my games with random heroes it is a PAIN if you don't end up with Raise Dead in your spell tower. IIRC I even had one game without Raise Dead, Phantom Forces, or EITHER of the summoning spells.

However I did wind up with some pretty good dark magic spells so it would up not being too bad. Mass Confusion followed by other Mass hosing spells works fairly well in a siege.

[Alamar]

Slightly off topic question: Is there a need for a comprehensive Necro guide like exists with Dungeon and possibly Inferno???

Basically is there enough depth to the faction that making a guide would be worthwhile??

[zhuge]

Well on HeroesCommunity, there was quite a lengthy thread discussing whether Necro is weaker than other factions:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=17784

I would think that playing Necro is a bit different and it pays to be more aggressive earlier on to level up Necromancy/Skel Archers. Once a Necromancer picks up pace he becomes a considerably bigger threat.
So a guide would indeed be nice.

In fact there already is one at gamefaqs. By no means great, but it does cover quite a lot of things:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/ ... _necro.txt

Anyway no hurry to rush out one. Much prefer a well thought out, detailed analysis as Gus mentioned.

Advice on not buying this or that stack ever is frequently misleading.
Depending on circumstances, each unit has its own set of advantages.
The Incorporeal ability for Ghosts help considerably in castle sieges, as the AI and towers like to target them often. Spectres can be useful damage wise if enemy retaliation has been eaten up.
Meatshields like Zombies can come in handy if you're a Necromancer who concentrates on direct damage spells. I know I found my Minotaurs and Hydras very useful during the Warlock campaign, 3rd mission, where my main damage output was from spells rather than troops.
Finally, having flyers like Bone Dragons are always useful in castle sieges.

[Alamar]

Advice on not buying this or that stack ever is frequently misleading.

Then later on ....

Finally, having flyers like Bone Dragons are always useful in castle sieges.

I haven't found Bone / Spectral Dragons very useful in Sieges [in the way that you describe]. Usually my goal is to use the castle walls against the defending troops. The real threat [IMHO] of the Necro is ranged damage. ASSUMING that you have clear ranged superiority if the defenders have any hope of winning they will have to come to you. This way the larger battlefield and the castle walls work against the defender because they can't get to you quickly enough ...

What I have seen a few times [that seemed useful] is to park your dragons in front of the castle gate and hope that they don't take toooo much punishment. [BTW if an enemy 2x2 is in the gate you might be able to park your dragons in a spot where almost nothing can get out until they kill off your dragons]

[zhuge]

I haven't found Bone / Spectral Dragons very useful in Sieges [in the way that you describe]. Usually my goal is to use the castle walls against the defending troops. The real threat [IMHO] of the Necro is ranged damage. ASSUMING that you have clear ranged superiority if the defenders have any hope of winning they will have to come to you. This way the larger battlefield and the castle walls work against the defender because they can't get to you quickly enough ...

Well I was just giving an example.

It's true that you should aim for the enemy to come to you so that your ranged troops get full damage and Skel Archers plus Liches can do quite a bit of damage. However sometimes you might need a blocker or two if they beat you in terms of dealing ranged/spell damage. Or you might have to split your troops and have insufficient ranged support for that particular battle.

Vamp Lords are good with their Life Drain, allowing you to lessen/negate their casualties. Ghosts/Spectres could come in handy as well since the enemy may miss, even if it's a 1 unit stack. Bone/Spectral Dragons provide more damage. Yes I know they're fragile, but I would like to think that having a flyer or two handy just in case would be nice... and we all know how good the Catapult is at targeting castle walls in H5 (it frequently aims spots which are already destroyed).

I do agree that luring the enemy to come to you is by far the superior tactic. For strong stacks, I sometimes bait with a 1 unit stack, hit with another 1 unit stack and maul it en masse with melee units and with ranged troops at full range.

[Gaidal Cain]

Spectres also has one huge thing going for them- they're the only thing that can effectively tie up enemy spellcasters and actually stop them from casting spells. They don't have to be plentyful, and they can even take a few hits before getting there, but once they do, no more mana for those pesky mages.

[Alamar]

If you have the resources you should definitely buy everything you can. Eventually you'll get into a battle where you'll want to have every Spectre, Spectral Dragon, Zombie, etc. just to make sure that you Vamps, Wights, Liches, and esp. Skeletons can do their jobs.

Note when I said I don't "field" dragons often it doesn't mean that I can't field them. From a Zero losses standpoint it often makes more sense just to field a TON of skeletons and do the "raise dead" thing on that stack. As long as the creatures you're fighting can't do more damage than you can raise back then you're guaranteed to have no losses.

With Spirit Link you might not even lose tons of mana.

[cornellian]

Definately buy everything you can, you never know when you might need those zombies, though after the third or fourth week you will rarely be in any real danger.. I think the only real problem a necro will ever have once he 'has the Force with him' is an inferno army.. Against pretty much everyone else you can keep your troops, at least the ones that really matter intact, and in full numbers if they fall via raise dead. You can spirit link in the middle of a battle to regain your mana, this is a great perk so few people use, one that makes up for low knowledge. All is good if you don't face Inferno.

The reason is as simple as a three letter word: imp. As imps and familiars are very likely to act before any of your troops, you can kiss your already low mana, and therefore opening curses or raising the stack that was just wiped out by nightmares goodbye. There is surely a formula of how much mana imps steal but in my experience 100 imps will deplete around 50 mana before you can say dammit and expect to face armies with several hundreds in normal+ maps.. Spirit Link won't matter most of the time, for then you will be able to cast in the second turn, when -against a good player- nightmares had already massacred your troops.

As a matter of fact (and a little out of topic), I find carefully built Inferno heroes with light magic practically unstoppable in MP, especially when they have resurrection and lots of cerberi and nightmares.. A hard combination to have, inferno and light, but once you get it it is worth it... You can cast mass haste your already fast troops resulting in nightmares acting three or four times before most enemy troops, or cerberi and devil closing in without too much loss; or you can cast mass endurance to make up for low defence Inferno has (esp. works wonders for cerberi).. Couple it with leadership and luck, and you are on your way to be accused of being a "something that rhymes with mustard ", as I was accused in my last MP game, where I took out half of my opponent's fat army before the first turn with only cerberi and nightmares.

Really, Inferno isn't half as weak as it is thought to be and should be avoided like the plague by the necros in a MP game if at all possible. I would list the other towns' 'danger rating' against necros as inferno>dungeon>sylvan>academy>haven...

[Alamar]

Couple it with leadership and luck, and you are on your way to be accused of being a "something that rhymes with mustard ",

Custard?

Really, Inferno isn't half as weak as it is thought to be and should be avoided like the plague by the necros in a MP game if at all possible. I would list the other towns' 'danger rating' against necros as inferno>dungeon>sylvan>academy>haven...

I tend to think the great enemy of the Necros is Haven. On a relatively rich map the training skill means that they might have enough Marksmen to make a difference.

In addition any faction with Dragons [esp. sylvan w/ great ranged troops] are a danger to a Necro.

Inferno basically has only the "imp thing" plus a couple of fast troops going for it. [and gating which can swing a battle against anyone] If they get luck in ATB placement, hero skills, etc. they can be trouble but I think any faction could be trouble in similar circumstances.

[cornellian]

Inferno basically has only the "imp thing" plus a couple of fast troops going for it. [and gating which can swing a battle against anyone] If they get luck in ATB placement, hero skills, etc. they can be trouble but I think any faction could be trouble in similar circumstances.

You are right, those, plus the succubi ar the only inferno strengths; but if you think of it, necro's strong points are less in numbers : skeleton archers, umm, mass skeleton archers? I mean they aren't fast, they aren't sturdy, they can resurrect easily but not against inferno etc. They basically have archers en masse, ghosts and vampires aren't sturdy enough to be the main troops in huge battles, and upper tiers are less useful then they sound (I dare say that wraiths are more useful than spectrals)...

I'm just saying that Inferno must be watched out, contrary to what people think, especially Necros should be carfeul..

[juventas]

As a matter of fact (and a little out of topic), I find carefully built Inferno heroes with light magic practically unstoppable in MP, especially when they have resurrection and lots of cerberi and nightmares.. A hard combination to have, inferno and light, but once you get it it is worth it... You can cast mass haste your already fast troops resulting in nightmares acting three or four times before most enemy troops, or cerberi and devil closing in without too much loss; or you can cast mass endurance to make up for low defence Inferno has (esp. works wonders for cerberi).

Aside from resurrection, it seems to me like slow and suffering can do the job as well.

[Gus]

Given the tremendously high initiative of the Inferno units, and the fact that Light is never resisted, it appears clear that Light is much better.
Now, is it worth it to specialize in a school whose spells you're not sure to get... i don't know =)

[MrSteamTank]

I think this guide is pretty spot on. That is probably the best current necropolis strat by far. Raise dead is so strong when you have the master of life skills and raise dead specially it's on the verge of ludicrous. I think a necromancer with vitality, battle frenzy, archery, and ultimate necromancy with the raise dead specialty is probably the deadliest opponent you can face. Just split your archers into like 2-3 equal stacks so units like gargoyles can't get in your face and disable the bulk of your skelly archers.

[Gus]

well, saying "use this one spell, this one unit, this one hero" is nothing near a "strategy"...

[Meandor]

well, saying "use this one spell, this one unit, this one hero" is nothing near a "strategy"...

Then what it is?

[Gus]

hmmmm... It really seems people have a hard time not mixing up "strategy", "munchkinism" (sorry GC), etc... Strategy guides are about how to use the strengths of your side, how to adapt to various situations using those strengths, etc. It's not about doing the same old thing with the same old hero all the time. What's the point of playing if every single of your game is "Necro => Vladimir => Raise Dead => Skeleton Archers" ? Play once and move on to another game instead.

[DaemianLucifer]

hmmmm... It really seems people have a hard time not mixing up "strategy", "munchkinism" (sorry GC), etc... Strategy guides are about how to use the strengths of your side, how to adapt to various situations using those strengths, etc. It's not about doing the same old thing with the same old hero all the time. What's the point of playing if every single of your game is "Necro => Vladimir => Raise Dead => Skeleton Archers" ? Play once and move on to another game instead.

Well arent those strategy guides all like:

Strategy one:Turn one -> action one;Turn two -> action two;....
Strategy two:....
.
.
.

And then you pick one of those and use it again and again and again in every single MP game you play?Seriously,even chess becomes like this after some time.I remember my brother an I got to the stage when our first 10 or so moves were completely the same every single game we played.Inovation is good,yes,but saying that when theres no more inovation is no strategy is false.

[Meandor]

hmmmm... It really seems people have a hard time not mixing up "strategy", "munchkinism" (sorry GC), etc... Strategy guides are about how to use the strengths of your side, how to adapt to various situations using those strengths, etc. It's not about doing the same old thing with the same old hero all the time. What's the point of playing if every single of your game is "Necro => Vladimir => Raise Dead => Skeleton Archers" ? Play once and move on to another game instead.

"munchkinism" is strategy oriented towards strength/might/power.

[Gaidal Cain]

"munchkinism" is strategy oriented towards strength/might/power.

And thus quite useless of accusing a maker of a guide of a strategy guide for a faction in a strategy game in. Better to accuse it of being onesided. Saying that Vladimir is the best hero is one thing, not even considering the other heroes is another.

[juventas]

Given the tremendously high initiative of the Inferno units, and the fact that Light is never resisted, it appears clear that Light is much better.
Now, is it worth it to specialize in a school whose spells you're not sure to get... i don't know =)

I'm sure in practice light magic is more powerful (if you get the spells) due to the never resist aspect, but statistically, slow is better than haste. If you take an arbitrary statistic called speed ratio = (your speed)/(enemy speed), decreasing the denominator is always better than increasing the numerator by the same proportion. Thus the fact that Inferno units have very high initiative has no bearing on whether or not you should use haste instead of slow. Obviously, this difference in ratios shrinks the greater the numerator and the smaller the denominator, but this only becomes relevant with a zombie's initiative.

And, uh, to make this relevant to the topic, dark magic is definitely a way to negate the haste on inferno units. Since you can't really haste a hero, your necromancer is going to be able to counteract the enemy spellcasting on a fairly regular basis.