Sylvan strategy

[theriel]

Hello!
I'm quite new to Heroes V (though played a lot in H1-4) and I'm looking for some help, playing Sylvan town (though many of you found it vey strong city, I had always some problem playing it)

1. What would you be focusing on building, playing this faction?
First day - tavern and buying second hero. Buying all creatures and putting them to the first hero. Both heroes go sightseeing.
And... what next? How will you e.g. develop in next week or two?

2. What heroes would you choose?
Wyngaal is quite good in my opinion, but how about Findan?

3.What are the skills you would like to obtain for your hero?
In theory, looking at the 'best skill' (Nautre's Luck), Luck, Attack, Defense and Logistics are the primary for ranger. Are they also the best for them or it's better to chose sth else?

Thank you for help!
Greetings,
Theriel

[Kalah]

1. Build dwellings to boost the total creature count in your town. Never mind the upgrades until you have many dwellings. Upgrade the hunters to master hunters first, then upgrade level wise (sprites, war dancers -->).
2. The two best heroes in Sylvan are Ossir and Ylthin, because of their specialties (hunters and unicorns). Giving those creatures extra umph is game-winning.
3. I'd agree with you in the general skill distribution; Luck is very important to Sylvan because of the great shooters, Attack & Defense (of course), Logistics to cover more ground, and I'd add some light magic.

- My strategy of choice is the focus on ranged creatures protected by heavier tanks. That is, the undefeatable Ancient Treants. Unless you're playing a huge map and get lots of towns, forget about dragons altogether; they're too expensive and the treants are sturdy enough to make up the backbone of your army anyway.

[theriel]

Thank you very much for the response.

Reading your post I found out, that I should (after building tavern, sec. character) focus on creature buildings (without upgrades). I also think - if not, please, correct me - that I should build halls (town ~, city ~) as fast as possible. How about fort/citadel? How about other buildings - should they be built just "when I find some time" or some of them are really important?

Coming back to heroes - should I focus on one hero (as I usually have done in previous versions of Heroes, making the second hero just an "exploration help") or develop them both similarly? If focus on only one, I think it should be Ossir, am I right?

Oh, one more question - what should I consider, when choosing favored enemy? Should it be a creature from lower or higher level? E.g. I know that the enemy living near me is playing Academy...

P.S. Other people playing H5 would also be welcomed in this topic ;-].

Once again, thank you for the advice and all your time and effort!
Greetings,
Theriel

[Corelanis]

For avenger i go for shooters. or definatly anything you want dead reallly fast so things like angels and mages and such.

[Campaigner]

The best way is to buy dwellings and stuff so you just got enough gold to buy the troops (ofcourse). But if you want a realistic guide, here's one (note: have only played with this town in Inferno campaign but I know enough of it already)

1. Secondary hero.
2. Depending on the lvl of your town, try to get some Hunters and go conquering for a few days. Get a sawmill immedietly! Losses are acceptable in this case
3. You will now be out exploring for 4 days or so so you can be a bit loose on the buildorder (bo). Get the following creaturedwellings the first week and in this order if possible: Townhall, Druids, Hunters, mageguild.
4. When you return to get new creatures, get a few spells from the mageguild while you're at it.
5. If you got Triple Ballista, then a ballista and Imbue Arrow is very good.

Know this however, that depending on the map and difficulty, the advice changes. This was written for Heroic where mines are heavily guarded.

[Gus]

2. Get blacksmith and ballista
[...]
This was written for Heroic where mines are heavily guarded.

well, Ballista costs 4500 gold in a Sylvan town. I don't think you can waste that kind of money in Heroic. Especially given no hero starts with War Machines, and it is offered very rarely to Rangers...

[Kalah]

Well, theriel, you are of course correct to build the Halls quickly, to make money every turn. Now, the strategy is to get lots of creatures as soon as possible, and to do that you build both dwellings and citadel/castle (they boost creature growth too). I'd start with the dwellings, though, because without them it doesn't matter how many walls your town has . When to start building citadel and castle? When you can afford it, is my tip. The Castle gives a great boost and also grants decent protection from attack, with its three towers. So that should be something like:
Pixies dwelling --> Blade Dancers dwelling --> Hunters dwelling --> Citadel --> Druids dwelling --> Unicorns dwelling.

After the Unicorns it's of no matter; you have Treants dwelling to build, but you'd also need to build the saplings to get full growth, so that's two buildings required. I'd go for the Castle as soon as you can, to get the boost to all creature growth. After that, get the Treants and upgrade to Ancient Treants as soon as possible. They, like, totally rule, man.
Also build the Dragon dwelling, but don't upgrade until you have lots of money, and don't bother getting them into your army unless you can buy all other creatures and all the dragons - they are really expensive and spending all your gold just to get 4 or 5 dragons simply isn't worth it. Just leave the dwelling there to accumulate creatures for a few weeks.

As far as heroes go, everybody have their own strategies. I personally develop a single hero and have a go-fer secondary hero in my town to bring me reinforcements and take unwanted artefacts. My advice is to focus developing a single hero for small maps, and spend some more time on several heroes in bigger maps.

I'm not really an expert in the use of the Avenger's Guild... There's a catch-22 here: You should set it to make your main enemies your "favoured enemies", but the problem is that you can't do that until you know what you're fighting, and you'll only know what you're fighting if you go out and have a look (i.e. fight). If you discover (for instance through the use of an expendable hero) who your main enemy is, you should try to get as many creatures belonging to his faction into your Avenger's Guild. You're unable to do that, however, until you've fought some of them, so if you can't find any neutral monsters of the relevant faction out there, you're out of luck. Basically, the first real opportunity to use the Avenger's Guild comes after your first fight with the main opponent. That's not too bad, however, because you need to develop the AG skill before it becomes effective, and that takes some time.
Now, you said your main enemy right now is Academy? Then getting some Academy creatures into the AG is the way to go. Which creatures? Well, the ones you can get. If you're lucky enough to get all Academy creatures in the AG, you can start selecting. And no, it's not too important to think about levels. What you should do, is focus on the creatures that you will have the most trouble with. In Academy, they are the Archmages, the Titans and the Rakshasas. Also note that the Obsidian Gargoyles are quite tough and that they fly (thus they can get to your shooters).

[zhuge]

As others have stated, get dwellings up fast. I usually build Town Hall once I can get it. With an extra 500 G per day over Village Hall it will repay your original investment of 2000 G in 4 days. Depending on how gold/resource rich the map is, you might want to get your City Hall/Capitol as soon as possible or delayed a couple of turns in favor of creatures/key upgrades.

I would focus on getting key damage dealers like Hunters and Druids out when convenient. The bigger the stacks you can take on, the more progress you can make with exploration.

Forts are 5000 G, 10 Wood; Citadels are 5000 G, 10 Ore. If you are playing on Heroic and are starved for cash, that's a huge investment if you ask me. I generally find an extra creature dwelling more affordable so I don't build them until quite a bit later.

Of course these are just 1 player's views. Your mileage may vary.

[Vlaad II]

HEROES

Talanar is the same as the campaign hero Alaron. The Enranged ability sounds nice and can be useful in tough early battles, when your Dancers, Hunters and Druids may need the attack bonus. The trick would be to split your Pixies in a few stacks of one and send them to death. However, as you wouldn't normally want your troops dead, this tactics is limited. Finally, his Ballista, starting Recruitment (boosts the growth of Sprites, Dancers and Hunters!) and potential Estates make Talanar a good secondary hero. If possible, get him Battle Commander in order to get that one-time contingent of Dancers. Their number depends on the week: it is 10 during weeks 1 and 2, 20 during weeks 3 and 4, 30 during weeks 5 and 6 etc.

Not only does everybody's favorite Ossir have a nice specialty, but also starts with the key skill in this game - Luck. Nevertheless, if you are going for Nature's Luck, keep in mind this hero is one of the four Rangers who are unable to obtain the ultimate ability due to their starting skills. If you are playing a small map, Ossir with Soldier's Luck, Elven Luck and Archery could be a perfect choice for the rush. Finally, he starts with 3-6 Hunters, crucial on Heroic. He is also a fashionable person, although his fur coats are on the verge of political correctness.

Vinrael gets a +2% per hero level bonus to the experience gained in combat. It is an excellent specialization for large maps when the final fight is not the only big battle in the game. Similarly, his starting Enlightment provides a significant boost. Sadly, the bonus points seem to be distributed neither equally nor randomly; a Ranger is always inclined towards Knowledge and Defense, not Attack or Spellpower. Vinrael's Intelligence is needless due to his high mana. Finally, he may get Arcane Intuition next. In many ways it is better than infamous Eagle Eye (e.g. you can learn Meteor Shower cast by Pit Lords in combat), but still limited to certain maps.

Wyngaal is all about the attack - Basic Attack plus Tactics (vital for Unicorns and Dragons round 1) and an offensive specialty (+2% bonus to his creatures' initiative per hero level).

Ylthin begins with a Unicorn and First Aid Tent, useful if you need to protect your archers while flagging the mines early on. Her Light Magic with starting (!) Master of Blessings will be her best point. Used as the main hero by girls only.

Anwen’s questionable specialization grants all Sylvan creatures under her command +2% more damage to favored enemy for every hero's level. Not much difference in the late game and dependant on the heroine’s Avenger skill.

Unfortunately, Gilraen and Dirael have nearly worthless specialties. The latter even boasts Basic Summoning and Master of Conjuration, although Sylvan is inclined to Light and Destructive Magic. The damage bonus to her Wasp Swarm is too small at higher levels, but with Expert Summoning Magic the Swarm Queen is able to considerably reduce the initiative of her enemies.


SKILLS

Swift as the wind, strong as the waterfall, wise as the oak

The Elves’ core philosophy sums it up: Sylvan creatures with high initiative and speed are led by heroes with great movement, defense and knowledge. As for the graceful as the stream part, I guess their appearance has stayed true to the stereotype.

Luck is always a good choice: with Expert Luck, your hero can master Soldier’s Luck (useful for Master Hunters and Silver Unicorns), Elven Luck (a compulsory +25% damage bonus!) and Deadman’s Curse (-1 Luck for your opponent). Luck means a chance to inflict 100% more damage, which makes it a bit overpowered. On the other hand, the maximum is 5, so it is one of the skills that can be compensated by adventure map power-ups and artifacts.

Expert Attack makes up for the Ranger’s low attack. It provides 15% greater melee damage and also enables Tactics (for your Unicorns and Dragons), Archery (a must!) and Frenzy (+1 damage). The alternatives are not bad either: Nature’s Wrath (additional +1 damage) with Flaming Arrows for your Ballista, which would ignore the opponent’s defense.

Defense (up to 30% damage reduction) has always been significant in Heroes. In Heroes Tazar was one of the most powerful heroes, while in the fourth sequel heroes were often not able to survive the first few battles without unbalanced Combat skill! Now this skill offers the needed protection for your low-level troops, especially if combined with Vitality and Protection (against Academy and Dungeon).

Distrustful of technology, Rangers have a minimal chance of mastering War Machines. Focused on Ballista, it is a good skill for a powerful might hero. At Expert, the Ammo Cart provides additional +3 attack for your archers.

Logistics and Leadership are great skills, although the matching abilities are more suitable for your scouts. Covering ground faster means gaining experience and resources faster than your opponents, while a permanent +3 Morale bonus is always welcome, especially against Necropolis.

Light Magic is an excellent choice for both might and magic heroes as it will provide mass effects for Haste, Righteous Might, Cleansing, Divine Strength and Endurance. Use Mass Righteous Might early and/or with creatures with fixed damage, and shift to Mass Divine Strength later. Other mass spells counter Dark Magic.

In spite of their nature, the Elves are prone to Destructive Magic. Master of Fire might be the best of the corresponding abilities, since it grants -50% armor effects to Fireball, which compensates for the low Attack. Due to Rangers’ low Spellpower and high Knowledge, direct damage spells are best used with Imbue Arrow and Rain of Arrows, which leads us to Sylvan’s racial skill.


AVENGER

A lot has been written about it elswhere.

Remember that you can check your opponents’ alignments in your Tavern as early as day one.

If there are no neutrals which you want, you might find them exploring Crypts, Abandoned Mines, Wrecked Galleys, Vaults of the Mages, Dragon Utopias, Military Posts and Sphinxes.

Not only do Rangers’ troops have a 40-60% chance to deal double damage to the favored enemies, but also the heroes themselves inflict increased damage.

The damage dealt by heroes depends on their level and the level of the targeted creatures. In addition, the damage can be increased by the Ranger’s racial skills.

According to the description, the Ranger deals 3 times his or her level damage to his favored enemies (Rain of Arrows or a single shot), which is somewhat misleading. Needless to say, a level 15 hero does not deal 3x15=45 damage, but he does NOT inflict 3 times his current damage either. Actually, he gains 3 virtual levels when attacking his favored enemies, i.e. as if he was level 18.

Imbue Arrow does not deal additional damage aside from the spell damage itself.

Deadeye Shot grants double damage to the damage done to favored enemies but targets a single stack. On the other hand, it always kills at least one creature, regardless of its health.

(For comparison, the same hero deals 32 damage with Fist of Wrath or 56 with Fireball and Spellpower 3.)

Imbue Arrow is a good ability if paired with Destructive Magic and mass spells. Imbue your rain of arrows with Meteor Shower or Implosion and enjoy the fireworks.




Sadly, you cannot imbue Armageddon, as it doesn’t target specific creatures. Similarly, you cannot imbue Mass Slow, Mass Weakness and Mass Suffering. These spells affect ALL of the opponent's creatures. When you use Imbue Arrow, you can imbue only the spells that target a single stack or a limited area. Thus you can imbue Lightning or Meteor Shower, but not Mass Slow or Armageddon. You can imbue Mass Vulnerability and Mass Cleansing, as those affect only limited areas. Unfortunately, one of Rangers’ weakest points is they have a very low chance of being offered Dark Magic.

Nevertheless, don’t forget that the spells drain your mana. If you are trying to shoot your three favored enemies but have enough spell points only for two spells, the third one is simply not cast. Imbue Ballista drains the mana as well.

It is important to note that Imbue Arrow only works with Deadeye Shot, Rain of Arrows, and Imbue Ballista. Otherwise, the spell is not cast when you attack. Strangely, you can obtain Imbue Arrow before its requirements.

Finally, keep in mind Rain of Arrows hits only your favored enemies (not other creatures) – but it hits them all. In other words, the Ranger can shoot from 1 to 7 arrows at the opponent’s army.



ULTIMATE


To get Nature's Luck (luck always rolled on attacks), you have to give up Archery (20% bonus to ranged damage - essential for the Elves in mid-game, as your key troops are Hunters and Druids at the time). You get Nature's Wrath instead. Another minor damage bonus to all Sylvan troops is welcome but nothing special. The next step is Flaming Arrows, which is helpful since Ballista can deal decent damage later in the game.

On the other hand, Logistics is as good as in Heroes 3. However, Scouting (+4 to scouting radius) is important for your scout only. It might become more interesting once the RMG has come out... Nevertheless, Silent Stalker in a way resembles Disguise spell from Heroes 3; aside from the fact that it provides +12 tiles scouting bonus, it is nearly useless against human opponents. Finally, Familiar Ground (+1 to speed on the grass) depends on the adventure map. In the available multiplayer scenarios random towns have nothing to do with the ground though. Again, here’s hoping it will matter more in randomly generated maps.

Elven Luck and Dead Man's Curse might be abilities you would pick anyway, since Rangers have a maximal chance of getting Luck.

Vitality (+2 to health) is essential for Sylvan's low-level troops, although they might not be that significant by the time you have reached this level. Last Stand is something you do not want to ever rely on, while your Ancient Treants would become unbeatable with Stand Your Ground.

At the end, you might get Nature's Luck - IF you are lucky.


CREATURES


The Sprite is one of the best level 1 creatures and can be compared only to Assassins and Skeleton Archers (due to their high numbers).
In addition to standard Fly and No Retaliation, the latest rendition has got Spray Attack and Casting.

The Sprite’s Wasp Swarm doesn’t work against undead and elemental creatures and doesn’t seem to reduce the opponent’s initiative like the hero’s spell.

Keep in mind the damage formula for creatures’ spellpower is not linear. Thus two stacks of 50 do more damage than one of 100. On the other hand, Advanced Cleansing counters Dark Magic, although its successfulness depends on the number of Sprites.

Finally, the Pixie and the Sprite both have high speed and initiative (7/7 and 12/14 respectively). This fact enables even a level 1 Ranger to kill 3 stacks of neutral Zombies with just 1 Pixie or Sprite. The trick is to stick to the edges of the battlefield:



Useful for claiming resources on day 1. Do not try this against a human opponent, though.

The War Dancer is another worthy upgrade – the increased attack, defense and initiative of 15 make their hilarious War Dance Combo even more deadly. Among level 2 creatures, only the Blood Fury is better.

Similarly, arguably the best level 3 creature, Master Hunter provides much needed durability to Sylvan’s key unit in the early game (+3 defense and +4 hit points). Protect them with Unicorns in the mid-game.

Strangely, the Elder Druid has lower initiative and health than the Druid (as if he were the Older Druid). On the other hand, +5 attack and +5 damage bonuses are a great advantage. It is the upgrade which pays off in the mid-game, no matter whether you are engaging your enemy in the final battle or just covering ground at that stage.

The Silver Unicorn is an average level 5 critter, but it fits well in the mid-game Sylvan roster. It can either add raw power and buy time, or provide the meat shield and magic resistance for the archers. In addition to Resistance and Protection, its aura is a must have against powerful casters.

Everybody’s favorite Treant boasts 175/181 hit points, high defense (27/29) and Entangling Roots. They are excellent for protecting vulnerable archers by blocking and binding the opponent’s big guns, since they can compete with most of level 7 creatures. Take Roots ability (a defense bonus plus unlimited retaliation for one turn) makes the upgraded rendition amazingly durable in big battles. If you do not use the mod that replaces TreeAnts with beta Treants, your hero might get -1 Morale penalty.

The Green Dragon’s best point is its initiative. The Emerald Dragon’s immunity to Earth spells might seem narrow, but keep in mind that actually means Implosion and Meteor Shower.



STRATEGY


Like they always have, the Elves depend on wood. Even on Heroic, gold is not an issue (you start with 10,000).

The Heroes 3 veterans will surely miss the Grand Elves – due to the town points, in Heroes 5 you cannot get Master Hunters on day 2 anymore. My suggestion for the building order would be: Tavern, Faerie Trees, Battledance Terrace, Mage Guild 1, Town Hall or Faerie Wood and Hunters Cabin in week one. That means 25 wood, 15 more than you start with!

On day one hire another hero – in most cases you want to combine Sylvan armies, although there are exceptions. For example, Haven’s Dougal starts with 20+ Archers and an Ammo Cart. On the other hand, if you have to fight those annoying Assassins on day one, remember that the undead are immune to Poison. Not to mention Academy’s Havez with 60+ Gremlins and all three War Machines (saves up to 6750 gold) etc.

Take gold from treasure chests and recruit as many Hunters and Dancers as possible and you are up to a quick start.

If you are defending or attacking a Sylvan, keep in mind this town has a unique kind of defense. If you have built Citadel, you will get a moat with a chance to entangle the attacker’s stacks.

The moat neither hurts nor entangles the defender’s troops. The damage of the moat is fixed (hero’s skills and creature’s abilities don’t help) and equals 4.475 x town level (e.g. the moat of a level 20 town deals 89 damage). Arcane Armor spell absorbs part of the damage, but spells such as Endurance don’t reduce it.

The moat entangles the attacker for five rounds and the effect may renew afterwards. The entangled stack gets damaged if it waits or defends in the moat. If the stack attacks (melee or ranged), it doesn’t get hurt. If the stack tries to move in order to attack through the moat, it gets entangled and doesn’t do any damage, even if the opponent is adjacent.

Animated or resurrected dead units are not automatically entangled even if they reappear in the moat.

Finally, you should know the moat’s Entangling Roots are not the same as the Treant’s ability. The hero or Sprites can try to cleanse the effect; Unicorns are able to resist it, while Black Dragons never get entangled.

[theriel]

Wow, Vlaad, that's really great! All I can do is just thank you all guys for all your advice - I'm sure it will help a lot! I didn't expect such a big help, but... I simply don't know what to say..

Best Greetings and once again, thank you!
Theriel

//added:
Vlaad, you mentioned that it's impossible for Osiric to get the Nature's Luck. As far as this fact is concerned, would you still consider this hero as the best choice? (thinking about playing on the large map)

[Kalah]

... you can say that now you know where to go next time you need help.

[Vlaad II]

//added:
Vlaad, you mentioned that it's impossible for Osiric to get the Nature's Luck. As far as this fact is concerned, would you still consider this hero as the best choice? (thinking about playing on the large map)

Nature's Luck is hard to get, even on the largest maps. So, yes - I'd say Ossir is maybe not the best, but still a good choice.

I can't wait to play custom XL scenarios. I think the ultimates will be the goal of many...

Speaking of singleplayer, of course.

[cornellian]

Great job there Vlaad, very thoroughly written...
Though I don't think that except from Inferno and Sylvan players, anyone would be willing to take such a high risk.. Certainly not Haven players, that's for sure ..