The Wraith - is it underrated?

[soupnazii]

... or it can also be made to give a bonus damage to the normal attack, a certain percentage of the total HP that stack of wraiths have.. Say, a 10% percent would mean an extra 10 damage for every single wraith, applied after attack/defence calculations, so it would still be a threat to a high defence enemy hero.. This way they wouldn't totally destroy low tiers, which they are already powerful against; and they wouldn't instantly kill 10 weeks worth of level7s...

i actually really like that idea...

[MrSteamTank]

Harm Touch should either
1. be incoorporated into the regular attack like vorpal sword(except increasing by the amount of wraiths in the stack).

2. increase by the amount of wraiths in the stack.

Making harm touch a 1 shot per battle ability that kills 1 unit for every 4 wraiths would be quite balanced. Considering their high damage to begin with the only situation you'd ever consider using it is either vs tier 7's or very high defense tier 6's which is the way it should be.

In any other situation the wraiths dmg would out-kill anything harm touch could do. as they are the highest dmg dealing tier 6(save for cavaliers/paladins on a charge which is broken imo).

[Metal Wolf]

Hey ThunderTitan,
How come you're a "leprechaun"?

Found a Pot O'Gold™. And a funny hat.

lol....good one!

[soupnazii]

actually, i think this entire discussion is pointless. people are trying to come up with all these complex and original ways for the harm touch to work, while most of them are unbablanced and stuff and then we get into trying to change it to make it balanced. i like some of the ideas, but why would you want to make it so complex?? whats the point?? just make it so that the wraith always kills 1 creature in addition to its normal attack. end of discussion, no more needs to be said.

[DaemianLucifer]

Hey ThunderTitan,
How come you're a "leprechaun"?

Found a Pot O'Gold™. And a funny hat.

lol....good one!

actually, i think this entire discussion is pointless. people are trying to come up with all these complex and original ways for the harm touch to work, while most of them are unbablanced and stuff and then we get into trying to change it to make it balanced. i like some of the ideas, but why would you want to make it so complex?? whats the point?? just make it so that the wraith always kills 1 creature in addition to its normal attack. end of discussion, no more needs to be said.

When in doubt,just copy/paste another creature and change its name?A bit dull,dont you think?

[soupnazii]

of course its a bit dull, but why fix what isnt broken? plus its been done many times in many other games, and as long as it works fine and fits the actual creature nobody really cares. plus, thats what harm touch really is and should be, isnt it? the incarnation of Death touches you and you die... and also it really isnt a copy of he pit lord cause they are completely different creatures in every way possible except for that. if they did what i said before the two creatures would still be so different from one another that people woud noticwe but not really care. for the pit lord it is just a weak ability to make up for its short movement and stuff that Ubi made up becauyse they couldnt think of anything else (i mean seriously, who the hell has ever heard of a vorpal sword before? and why on a demon?? is vorpal even a word???) while for the Wraith it is there because that's what a wraith is and it is the basic ability that an incarnatioln of death is supposed to have, andf i dont understand why a big deal eeds to be made out of it.

[DaemianLucifer]

Well my idea for that was to make a guy that instead of dealing damage always kills creatures.For example:it has 20-30 damage,fighting a stack of 2 enemies with 25 hp,hell always kill just one,and the other will be at the top health.If he fights 2 enemy stack with 200 hp,hell still kill exactly one.Same goes if that 2 enemy stack has 18 hp,but not 15.If it has 15 hp,theres 10% chance hell kill both.Now if this is how harm touch worked,and if it was the only wraiths attack it would be fun,inovative,and it could be balanced.

[Gus]

but why fix what isnt broken?

Actually, the starting reason of this discussion is that Harm Touch IS broken, because it doesn't scale with the number of Wraiths. So, fixing is needed.
Now the question becomes, why use bland ideas to fix something when we could come up with interesting ways to do so?
That should answer your suggestion.

[DaemianLucifer]

Actually, the starting reason of this discussion is that Harm Touch IS broken, because it doesn't scale with the number of Wraiths. So, fixing is needed.
Now the question becomes, why use bland ideas to fix something when we could come up with interesting ways to do so?
That should answer your suggestion.

Actually the why fix it when its not broken refers to the vorpal sword idea being implemented instead of the harm touch.But I agree with you.Its more than enough that we have vamps draining undead,liches deathclouding mechanicals and zombies enraged,we dont need a pit lord clone without spells.

[Gus]

Now the question becomes, why use bland ideas to fix something when we could come up with interesting ways to do so?

Actually the why fix it when its not broken refers to the vorpal sword idea being implemented instead of the harm touch.

Emphasis mine, just to clarify my reasonning =)

[soupnazii]

because the more interesting ways are always harder to balance and always spark tons of controversey among at least a part of the fan community, while the bland ones, as long as they work fine, need very little balancing and usually dont spark much controversey among the fan community at all, after all, why should you complain if it works fine? granted, there does need to be lots of intersting and original ideas in every game otherwise its just boring, but there are already enough new and interesting and controversial things in this game to make it deffinetly not boring, and probably lots of other new and original things planned for expansions. and if they still want to add some more new things to the game there are plenty of other things that could be improved and/or fixed and/or changed, and i dont see any reason for the wraith to have any ability other than the "vorpal sword" thing.

btw, if you people are so intent on not having a "pit lord clone", i think that the most logical thing to do since it is obvious that the wraith needs some sort of "death touch" ability and that the vorpal sword thing is completely made up just to make up for the pit lord's weak attack with absolutely no logical reasoning behind it, i think what should be done is to make the Wraith's attack automatically kill one creature in addition to its normal attack, and then take away the pit lord's vorpal sword andf increase his damage and attack. actually, i dont see why they didnt do this in the first place, its not like the pit lord lacks a special ability since it can cast spells and sometimes even gate, so why did they have to come up with a completely unreal and unlogical stupid ability?

[theLuckyDragon]

(i mean seriously, who the hell has ever heard of a vorpal sword before? and why on a demon?? is vorpal even a word???)

You're obviously not an Alice in Wonderland fan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorpal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_M ... ce#Weapons

[Gus]

I'd even go as far as to say that you probably don't have much experience about RPGs, since Vorpal has been a term used in such games, in reference to Alice, for quite a long time.

[ClownRoyal]

I'd even go as far as to say that you probably don't have much experience about RPGs, since Vorpal has been a term used in such games, in reference to Alice, for quite a long time.

Extensively in Dungeons and Dragons as well.

[Gaidal Cain]

You're obviously not an Alice in Wonderland fan.

Jabberwocky. You don't need to have read Alice to have read Jabberwocky

[thecheese]

You're obviously not an Alice in Wonderland fan.

Jabberwocky. You don't need to have read Alice to have read Jabberwocky

BURBLE! P:

[Gus]

I'd even go as far as to say that you probably don't have much experience about RPGs, since Vorpal has been a term used in such games, in reference to Alice, for quite a long time.

Extensively in Dungeons and Dragons as well.

well, D&D is a PnP RPG (abbreviations are fun!!) so it was included =P

[Omega_Destroyer]

Also has a chance to kill with a hit in Baldur's Gate 2 if I remember correctly.

[Gus]

Also has a chance to kill with a hit in Baldur's Gate 2 if I remember correctly.

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 use D&D rules, so yes.

[Omega_Destroyer]

+3, 25% chance to kill. Get the 1st half from Simon Haverian and the 2nd half from the Gyntharki assassins/holy warriors who want it for their faith. Sound about right?