Things less known

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 24 Jun 2006, 21:48

I dedicate this topic to some interesting uses of abilities,creatures,spells,whatever,that arent that obvious.

Ill start by two....lets call them weird...facts about warlocks.

First one is irresistible magic and unicorn resistance(at least I think this one comes from irresistible magic).If the unicorns(probably other creatures too)resist your DD spell,there is a chance theyll still receive some damage.This coupled with master of fire,ice or storms lead to that spell still being quite devastating.

Second one is about grim rider.Did you ever pit them between two stacks that you attacked with a hydra?No?Well this is what happenes then:Grim riders attack one of those creatures(Im not sure which one),then the other creature attacks the riders,and then the riders attack the other creature.I didnt check what happens with more then two creatures,but I assume it is quite bloody battle.

Post other things you feel are less known.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 24 Jun 2006, 22:55

Blood Maidens/Furies and Pixies/Sprites + a hero can kill as many neutral Zombies as possible if they're only in 1 or maybe even 2 stacks. And any other slow init/movement creature.

Gus · Unread postby **Gus** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:03

I've done it against 3 stacks, actually.

zhuge · Unread postby **zhuge** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:25

Speaking of free kills, there was this battle I had in the Warlock campaign, 1st mission. It was against a group of Dark Raiders guarding an Arena.
The terrain in that battle was terribly cluttered with obstacles. It was so bad in fact that there were several spaces where a 1x1 square unit could be placed where it could never be reached by a large 2x2 unit like the Dark Raider. So basically, if your units just stay there while your hero pounds away it's free experience regardless of how many 1x1 units you bring.

In other words, the random obstacle generator for battles might still need some work.

dixing · Unread postby **dixing** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:56

hmmm while this is probably more known and maybe even posted as a bug I this the vampires in heroes 5 can drain life from undead units... if its true then might they drain life from elementals and mechanicals as well?
if this is true then is there a chance that necromancy works even after defeating elemental/undead/mechanical stacks?
also I was wondering if anyone knows on what basic does eternal servtitude works? does it bring back some of the fallen creatures based on some rule? and does it depend on which army you defeated? would love to get those questions answered as well!

5il3nc3r · Unread postby **5il3nc3r** » 25 Jun 2006, 01:38

It's true they drain life from undead creatures, but it doesn't work against mechanical (I don't think it works against elemental either).

Necromancy doesn't work against mechanical/elemental creatures. Not sure about the undead tho (I always figured the raised amount after a battle were my eternal servitude raised creatures. I never really bothered looking when I don't lose units

)

And I don't know about a rule for eternal servitude, but often, when I only lose a few units, I get all of them back. I think it might be a certain amount of HP/Units based on your hero's level. Also, it can't bring back more than one type of creature, and I think it always brings back the highest tier creature you lost.

So basically, if in a fight, you lost 3 liches and 50 zombies, then you'll get some/all of the liches back, but no zombies; whereas if you only lost 50 zombies, you'd get back some/most/all of them.
Don't know the exact rule tho, sry.

Hope it helped,
§ıĿ

cornellian · Unread postby **cornellian** » 25 Jun 2006, 06:09

Vampires regaining health from undead doesn't strike me as a very strange thing, imo it is in the boundaries of fantasy logic.. Now it would be senseless if they sucked the lifeforce (or unlife force) from a golem, something out of iron, and logically (again, in my logic, this is fantasy after all) they can't; but who is to say that a vampire can only regenerate from living things? Anyone knows a vampire to confirm/deny it?

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 25 Jun 2006, 07:43

cornellian wrote:Anyone knows a vampire to confirm/deny it?

The Undead taste like something from Kalah's fridge.

Not a good meal.

Lord Dreyfuss · Unread postby **Lord Dreyfuss** » 25 Jun 2006, 08:16

5il3nc3r wrote:And I don't know about a rule for eternal servitude, but often, when I only lose a few units, I get all of them back. I think it might be a certain amount of HP/Units based on your hero's level. Also, it can't bring back more than one type of creature, and I think it always brings back the highest tier creature you lost.

So basically, if in a fight, you lost 3 liches and 50 zombies, then you'll get some/all of the liches back, but no zombies; whereas if you only lost 50 zombies, you'd get back some/most/all of them.
Don't know the exact rule tho, sry.

Hope it helped,
§ıĿ

This is actually not true, I have received certainly 2 and maybe up to 3 different kinds of creatures (vampires + ghosts, not sure about skeletons). I believe quantity depends on level of necromancy skill and spellpower.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 25 Jun 2006, 09:36

dixing wrote:hmmm while this is probably more known and maybe even posted as a bug I this the vampires in heroes 5 can drain life from undead units... if its true then might they drain life from elementals and mechanicals as well?
if this is true then is there a chance that necromancy works even after defeating elemental/undead/mechanical stacks?
also I was wondering if anyone knows on what basic does eternal servtitude works? does it bring back some of the fallen creatures based on some rule? and does it depend on which army you defeated? would love to get those questions answered as well!

The vampires drain life from undead,but not mechanical units.Mechanical and undead units cannot be raised.And liches death cloud affects siege all non-undead units,meaning siege machines and mechanical units too.Funny thing as well is that zombies affect all units with their weakness.The game is very illogical

The eternal servitude is based on a level,I think,and it raised from lowest to the highest creature for me.I dont know how it works to details though.

5il3nc3r · Unread postby **5il3nc3r** » 25 Jun 2006, 12:05

Lord Dreyfuss wrote:
5il3nc3r wrote:And I don't know about a rule for eternal servitude, but often, when I only lose a few units, I get all of them back. I think it might be a certain amount of HP/Units based on your hero's level. Also, it can't bring back more than one type of creature, and I think it always brings back the highest tier creature you lost.

So basically, if in a fight, you lost 3 liches and 50 zombies, then you'll get some/all of the liches back, but no zombies; whereas if you only lost 50 zombies, you'd get back some/most/all of them.
Don't know the exact rule tho, sry.

Hope it helped,
§ıĿ

This is actually not true, I have received certainly 2 and maybe up to 3 different kinds of creatures (vampires + ghosts, not sure about skeletons). I believe quantity depends on level of necromancy skill and spellpower.

Well, I actually never noticed (or remember) bringing back more than one type (excluding the necromancy part where you create undead).

§ıĿ

Metal Wolf · Unread postby **Metal Wolf** » 25 Jun 2006, 20:40

dixing wrote: ... the vampires in heroes 5 can drain life from undead units... if its true then might they drain life from elementals and mechanicals as well?

They cant drain life from elementals - thats for sure, I've checked it.

About Eternal servtitude - I'm almost sure it brings back a portion from every creature stack which was hurt by the enemy, but the million dollar question - how much? - that I dont know...

cornellian · Unread postby **cornellian** » 25 Jun 2006, 22:06

5il3nc3r wrote:
Well, I actually never noticed (or remember) bringing back more than one type (excluding the necromancy part where you create undead).

Same here, I've never brought back two creatures after the same battle.. Of course everyone raises skellie archers, but in my experience, even with Markal in the campaign, with 25 spellpower I could only bring one type, and it usually was the highest tier that was raised, like one lich back out of three for example.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 26 Jun 2006, 00:18

I did some really interesting fights with hydras.They regenaret twice as fast if you wait.And they can even raise their fallen in this manner.But how much do they regenarate anyway?I noticed it isnt fixed,but what does it depend on?

djtc · Unread postby **djtc** » 26 Jun 2006, 00:37

DaemianLucifer wrote:I did some really interesting fights with hydras.They regenaret twice as fast if you wait.And they can even raise their fallen in this manner.But how much do they regenarate anyway?I noticed it isnt fixed,but what does it depend on?

I think there's a fixed range with random on it (like let's say 10-20, works like inversed damage somehow).

Gus · Unread postby **Gus** » 26 Jun 2006, 01:15

www.heroesofmightandmagic.com says 30-50 HP.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 26 Jun 2006, 01:24

Yes I thought as much.It makes them on par with vampires.Especially if you haste them.Then just keep hitting wait.

And while the dungeon is a theme,why doesnt the basic dragon have any magic ressistances?Its silly.

Caradoc · Unread postby **Caradoc** » 28 Jun 2006, 18:07

DaemianLucifer wrote:
And while the dungeon is a theme,why doesnt the basic dragon have any magic ressistances?Its silly.

Maybe it is because Dragon MR has traditionally blocked friendly spells as well as attack. A Dragon with partial MR would be a pain to use since you would not know whether your spells would take effect.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 28 Jun 2006, 19:32

Caradoc wrote:A Dragon with partial MR would be a pain to use since you would not know whether your spells would take effect.

Better then being killed by spells. Icebolt killing a Shadow Dragon always maks me cringe.

csarmi · Unread postby **csarmi** » 09 Jul 2006, 19:15

Actually, any 4/5 moving creature can be hit and run provided you have enough initiative advantage and time. And that the opponent can't get morale, or at least won't get it too often. It doesn't really matter how many groups they have. Or at least not much. Just use more than 1 fodder for safety and concentrate.

In the inferno map 3 I actually killed 83 water elementals with a minor army. I had 80 gremlins, 5 succubi, 4+1+1+1+1 hell hounds. I made sure the elementals cast Circle of Winter twice on the gremlins (succubi were placed two tiles to the left, 4 hell hounds were placed 5 tiles to the right). So they could only kill 6 of my real stacks by spells (they killed only 5 actually cause they preferred to cast Ice Bolt on the stack of 2 (that came from the 4 with gating).

I cast Mass Slow (a few times) and kept teleport for safety. It was a long (and hard!) fight, but certainly doable. The elements had +2 morale though which sucked big time.

Pit Fiends/Pit Lords can be abused the same way. Just make them deplete their mana and run around.

Some casters are fond of casting on sprites (druids, in particular).

Most 2x2 creatures are easy kills.

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