My homm V Balance Patch Ideas

[Gus]

Thanks,we try

no you don't.

[DaemianLucifer]

Thanks,we try

no you don't.

Keyword is try.It doesnt have to mean that its a successful atempt.

[Gus]

I did read correctly =P

Anyway, i'm just kidding, no worries =)

[Gaidal Cain]

Anyways how is one unit better than the others unifying? Imagine an infernal army without succubi mistress? That army would be at a significant disadvantage to any other infernal army.

So would a haven army without griffons against an enemy army with them...
Succubi are very good units, but Inferno wasn't meant to be an army where you hang back and let them do all the work. Inferno armies were meant to gate in units, and then strike hard, and I would be surprised if you could use an equal worth army with succubi that hangs back and defends to defeat someone who uses this kind of tactic, especially if heroes are designed with this in mind. Pit Lords (and Demons early on) is just a Teleport Assault away from being a nightmare for the opposition.

[Bandobras Took]

Anyways how is one unit better than the others unifying? Imagine an infernal army without succubi mistress? That army would be at a significant disadvantage to any other infernal army. Forcing you to get them as they are such powerhouses at both fighting neutrals and enemy heroes.

Although I do appreciate the positive tone on these forums. Much better community imo.

Actually, in a straight-up match vs. another Inferno, Succubus Mistresses aren't spectacular, as their chain shot doesn't work on Demonic troops. Any Inferno player who has to wait until Succubus Mistresses for significant conquering is lagging. I'm currently much more in to Nightmares as the strong Inferno troop than Succubi, believe it or not.

[Gus]

I read your guide with a lot of attention, but i must say i have a very hard time getting the money and army strength needed, in heroic. Care to expand a bit on the strategic area on how to play them? Nightmares, for example, sound good, but they drop like flies. How do you manage to use them correctly? They're the only castle i have so much trouble with, unless i get Deleb (and then it's a slaughter ^^)

[Omega_Destroyer]

At least nightmares don't die as fast as the cerebi do. I'm lucky if I get 3 rounds with my cerebi before they kick it. It's very similar to how long you get to keep blood furies.

I'll agree that Succbus Mistresses aren't that impressive of a unit, especially versus other infernal units. I liked the gogs of olden days much better.

[playforfun]

You can always defend that race X is balanced because unit Y is overpowering thus making up for it's deficiencies. However, that really kills the game for me as I would like to see specializing in most units as a possibility. What the hell is the point of having zombie specialization on a hero if zombies suck? Sure skeletons make up for it but come on I might as well forget about that hero altogether.

If zombies suck, the hero specializing in zombies suck! Yeah... But I still think having something else to make it up (be it the possibility of a skeleton archer legion or something else) is better than buffing up the sucking zombie to a squire equivalent. To solve your problem, I'd rather propose modifying the hero bonus to the zombie (e.g. +2 attack/defense to the zombie specializing hero for every 2 levels of the hero, etc) instead.

[Bandobras Took]

You can always defend that race X is balanced because unit Y is overpowering thus making up for it's deficiencies. However, that really kills the game for me as I would like to see specializing in most units as a possibility. What the hell is the point of having zombie specialization on a hero if zombies suck? Sure skeletons make up for it but come on I might as well forget about that hero altogether.

If zombies suck, the hero specializing in zombies suck! Yeah... But I still think having something else to make it up (be it the possibility of a skeleton archer legion or something else) is better than buffing up the sucking zombie to a squire equivalent. To solve your problem, I'd rather propose modifying the hero bonus to the zombie (e.g. +2 attack/defense to the zombie specializing hero for every 2 levels of the hero, etc) instead.

Zombies under Orson's control drain mana from spellcasting creatures, to represent said creatures losing their lunch from the smell.

[DaemianLucifer]

If zombies suck, the hero specializing in zombies suck! Yeah... But I still think having something else to make it up (be it the possibility of a skeleton archer legion or something else) is better than buffing up the sucking zombie to a squire equivalent. To solve your problem, I'd rather propose modifying the hero bonus to the zombie (e.g. +2 attack/defense to the zombie specializing hero for every 2 levels of the hero, etc) instead.

Better yet:He gives his zombies +1 to their initiative every 5 levels(starting from the first,then at levels 6,11,16,etc).

[Campaigner]

Well I would say about the same as Bandodras Took (this isn't your real name right?) regarding your suggestions.

But did you complain about the Titans and Black Dragons vs Crusader and Cyclop in heroes II as well? Cause those units were the same tier but Titan was around 7 times as powerful as a Crusader.

And the troops of a faction in Heroes V have the current stats to fit the theme of their faction. F.e Master Hunters (love these guys ) and Elder Druids are meant to sit back and deliver death while Silver Unicorns and Ancient Treants guard them. Sprites and Emerald Dragons are used for quick assaults against ranged troops. War Dancers are like Cerberuses. Fast and reactive with a multisquare attack but weak as a leaf.

And I certainly hope that my Master Hunters aren't nerfed!

[DaemianLucifer]

But did you complain about the Titans and Black Dragons vs Crusader and Cyclop in heroes II as well? Cause those units were the same tier but Titan was around 7 times as powerful as a Crusader.

But you could easily get crusaders in the second week and buy all of them every week,as for titans you had to wait a few months to build them,and then a few more to buy them.

And I certainly hope that my Master Hunters aren't nerfed!

I certanly hope they do.Especially the basic ones.

[Mightor Magic]

I'm not that interested in building the seven unit Basic army and I actually prefer to have armies that sometimes have no range units or flyers {just not during a castle siege}.

Haven Units:

I don't think Cavaliers are that over powered as you can place your most likely targets behind some sort of cover and once that first charge is over, they usually die really quickly because they are so much closer to your ranged units and powerful but slow melee units. However, one problem I've noticed with Haven is that priests have a range penalty. They should have the same all range attack as Mages in this which would really make more sense. Also, archangels need to be able to cover more ground when upgraded. Or give them the battle dive ability. I find peaseants more useful for their gold ability but it's good that they're useful at all. I still remember them from Heroes 1: three steps and they're done for the round.

Sylvan Units:

Overall fragile units that rely on might and luck? I don't see how they are overpowered with the correct tactics on the oppenent's end. Fairly good balance so no problems here.

Academy Units:

Gargoyles are useless once you get March of the Golems or a good Artificer level. So at least give them a point of damage. The rest of the units are ok and since play style can be changed with the Artificer skill, they are highly adaptable for whatever army or magic you want. Titans seem they shouldn't have a range penalty but that would really overpower them so keep them as they are.

Inferno Units:

I'm not sure about building a whole faction around the essential skill of teleport assault is a really good balance idea so here are some changes that would allow for more army/hero builds: Increase Demon speed and initiative, make Pit Lords an actual ranged unit {Not a caster. It doesn't work with the Demon theme anyways} with a fireball attack that won't hurt nearby Demon allies or Demon enemies and Archdevils' teleport ability must be able to target any unit that can be hit by a large creature. Come to think about it, wouldn't that minus to enemy luck from Heroes 3 also be a handy skill now that there is such a thing as a bad luck modifier?

Necromancer Units:

Since Lichs use their staffs to shoot magic, I don't think it's right that they have a range penalty. Increase Vampires live stealing ability but give it only to the Vampire Lords {Still nerf it from Heroes 3}. Zombies are great defensive units so they're ok as they are. Give Wraiths that Hp healing ability they had in Heroes 3 as it would be really useful now that they actually have hit points. Spectre Dragons need some type of special attack, maybe a demoralizing attack or a minus to enemy morale. Skeleton Archers are great as they are, weak yet numerous. Ghosts are good but really easy to kill so that's fine too.

Warlock Units:

Scouts and Assassins have a short range and since they're throwing darts that makes sense {their poison does more damage then they do} but again, as spell slingers, Shadow Witches shouldn't have any range penalty. The rest of the units require a lot of planning to use their skills to their best advantage but that's good since they don't require any unique Hero abilites. Even Hydras don't need Teleport Assault to be useful, if you're patient.


Main balance issue: Either remove the Mages all range attack or give it to all the Spellslingers in the game that use magic as their primary attack. Since Succubi throw fire, that's more of a physical attack so that's fine as it is. Ditto the Druids magic powder attack {I've think that's what it is}.

[ClownRoyal]

Academy Units:

Gargoyles are useless once you get March of the Golems or a good Artificer level. So at least give them a point of damage. The rest of the units are ok and since play style can be changed with the Artificer skill, they are highly adaptable for whatever army or magic you want. Titans seem they shouldn't have a range penalty but that would really overpower them so keep them as they are.

I haven't played with Academy as much as other factions, but from what I have experienced in fighting against them a lot, gargoyles are insanely hard to kill for a tier 2 unit. Obsidian Gargoyles even have that large move range, plus flight. Once they get in the face of enemy shooters, it takes a lot of concentrated effort to kill them off. Essentially, they can prevent one stack from shooting for several turns. They also seem to have a nice growth rate, but I forgot the exact numbers.

[DaemianLucifer]

Haven Units:

I don't think Cavaliers are that over powered as you can place your most likely targets behind some sort of cover and once that first charge is over, they usually die really quickly because they are so much closer to your ranged units and powerful but slow melee units. However, one problem I've noticed with Haven is that priests have a range penalty. They should have the same all range attack as Mages in this which would really make more sense. Also, archangels need to be able to cover more ground when upgraded. Or give them the battle dive ability. I find peaseants more useful for their gold ability but it's good that they're useful at all. I still remember them from Heroes 1: three steps and they're done for the round.

Any unit cavaliers hit in their first charge is a goner.And if they happen to get a morale boost,youll have two dead units.Pretty strong.Priest have a strong attack,so giving them no range penalty is a bit overpowering.Angels need more speed,thats true.

Sylvan Units:

Overall fragile units that rely on might and luck? I don't see how they are overpowered with the correct tactics on the oppenent's end. Fairly good balance so no problems here.

You dont see how they are overpowered?Hunters are level three,yet they do insane damage TWICE.And thats a basic unit.Not to mention that sylvan has the best initiative.

Academy Units:

Gargoyles are useless once you get March of the Golems or a good Artificer level. So at least give them a point of damage. The rest of the units are ok and since play style can be changed with the Artificer skill, they are highly adaptable for whatever army or magic you want. Titans seem they shouldn't have a range penalty but that would really overpower them so keep them as they are.

Titans are a bit too weak because they are so slow.

Inferno Units:

I'm not sure about building a whole faction around the essential skill of teleport assault is a really good balance idea so here are some changes that would allow for more army/hero builds: Increase Demon speed and initiative, make Pit Lords an actual ranged unit {Not a caster. It doesn't work with the Demon theme anyways} with a fireball attack that won't hurt nearby Demon allies or Demon enemies and Archdevils' teleport ability must be able to target any unit that can be hit by a large creature. Come to think about it, wouldn't that minus to enemy luck from Heroes 3 also be a handy skill now that there is such a thing as a bad luck modifier?

Nah,pit fiends are fine the way they are,but demons do need a speed bonus,and devils need to cross the whole BF,I agree.

Necromancer Units:

Since Lichs use their staffs to shoot magic, I don't think it's right that they have a range penalty. Increase Vampires live stealing ability but give it only to the Vampire Lords {Still nerf it from Heroes 3}. Zombies are great defensive units so they're ok as they are. Give Wraiths that Hp healing ability they had in Heroes 3 as it would be really useful now that they actually have hit points. Spectre Dragons need some type of special attack, maybe a demoralizing attack or a minus to enemy morale. Skeleton Archers are great as they are, weak yet numerous. Ghosts are good but really easy to kill so that's fine too.

No,liches are fine.Giving them no range penalty would overpower them.Vampires are fine too(except the fact that lords need a better movement animation than this dumb teleport).I agree about the wraiths.The spectral dragons and wraiths should have incoporeal ability,but it should be nerfed done(50% damage reduction instead of this would be fine).

Main balance issue: Either remove the Mages all range attack or give it to all the Spellslingers in the game that use magic as their primary attack. Since Succubi throw fire, that's more of a physical attack so that's fine as it is. Ditto the Druids magic powder attack {I've think that's what it is}.

Mages have full strenght on any range because they attack the whole line,so it does make sense,since they target just a spot in fron of them.Others need to pinpoint the exact spot the creature is on,so having a range penalty is ok for them.

[Orfinn]

Nah no need to nerf them, ever noticed their defence? 1 in defence is fairly weak for a tier 3 creature, weakest I have ever seen in fact But that is to compensate for their strong double shot with high dmg.

[ThunderTitan]

I rather have other creatures buffed then hunters nerfed. Only the Paladins ability needs some nerfing.

[DaemianLucifer]

Nah no need to nerf them, ever noticed their defence? 1 in defence is fairly weak for a tier 3 creature, weakest I have ever seen in fact But that is to compensate for their strong double shot with high dmg.

So what?Cerberi are also weak in defense,but they still dont punch that hard and that often.

[Gus]

yeah, i'm all for diversity like that, but not when it's game-breaking. Hunters are randomly chosen to start the fight? say bye to one of your stacks.

The more i see how attack order can break a game, the more i favour simultaneous retaliation or similar (like that proposition of yours, DL, was it Attack Speed?).

[DaemianLucifer]

The more i see how attack order can break a game, the more i favour simultaneous retaliation or similar (like that proposition of yours, DL, was it Attack Speed?).

Thats correct.Its burried somewhere now,though.