My homm V Balance Patch Ideas

[MrSteamTank]

Now I've hardly played enough to be sure how balanced most units/spells are. However, their are a few that are imbalanced enough that it is quite evident it's simply too gamebreaking. They clearly outshine the competition so I'm going to post the changes I'd like to see in patch 1.2.

General -

All spellcasters in general should make buffs/debuffs more powerful the more in the stack. Either that or make buffs/debuffs waste less mana when cast by larger stacks so say a stack of 50 inquisitors casting haste will waste only 1 mana while 1 inquisitor will waste all his mana doing it.

Begin every map with the tier 1 building and first town hall upgrade. This is simply a waste of time for every player as every player will ALWAYS build these 2 first. A lot of the other homms had the tier 1 building built already so why not in this case. If nival's intention is to speed up gameplay eliminating 2-3 useless turns at the beginning of a match would clearly reduce a game by a good 5 minutes so why not?

The Battlefield should be 2-3 squares longer. Exactly enough so that very few units can ever reach the other side of the battlefield in one round and without the enemy reacting. This would signifantly reduce the luck factor of poor placement in the tactic phase.

Ultimate Skills should have less requirements. Not that much less but dropping a single requirement off of each ultimate skill would go a long way in making them achievable in at least some multiplayer games.

Skills -
Enlightenment:
Scholar - Make scholar add +2 knowledge on top of the current bonus.
This ability seems weak to me as you can always learn all your spells from the mage guild anyways. If someone can find a real use for this ability please tell me and I'll revise my change.

Arcane Intuition - Make intuition add +2 spell power on top of the current bonus. This seems like a too specific of an ability for me as well. Although it seems to have a use vs neutrals I'd still improve this anyways as it is such a situational ability.

War Machines:
First Aid - Let this ability up the charges on the first aid tent. A flat quantity of 3 charges makes the first aid tent a little weak. This would definitely encourage me to pick this underused skill.

Spells -
Phantom Phorces - Eliminate the incorporeal effect or move them up to rank 5. Far too powerful of a spell for a level 3 move. Even mirror image(level 5 spell in homm2) was a 1 shot removal although it could always be insta-dispelled by any unit in range.

Academy -
Golems - +1 to initiative. I usually leave these guys behind because they are too slow. Also with a bigger battlefield they need to move more often so they can actually do something. Initiative apparantly was not factored in when balancing units by the looks of it.
The rest seems fine to me although mage/arch-mages seem a little too powerful for their level although probably not enough to warrant any changes yet. Djinn's seem the other way around and look only like buff/debuffers to me.

Dungeon -
Seems ok to me although I haven't played them much to be sure. The Rider Charge ability on raiders seems a little much although the raiders themselves aren't that good. Removing 100% of defense easily simply slaughters the tier 6-7 units too easily. Particularly when tier 6-7 units aren't the powerhouses they used to be in the old homm games. Also statistically they are far more powerful than the other tier 4 units even factoring in their increased gold cost. I mean compare these guys to gryphons and vampires.

Haven -
Knights/Squires - +1 initiative. Just like the golems from the academy these guys need to get to take their turns more quickly. Another unit I generally leave behind.

Cavaliers - Reduce jousting bonus from 10% per square to 5% per square. These guys are simply insane when charging into battle. Not minding their excellent speed, damage, and decent hp pool they don't need that killer charge bonus. That really needs to be toned down.

Sylvan -
Hunter/Master Hunter - Damage reduced to 4-7/5-8 to 3-5/4-6. Hitpoints increased to 12/16 from 10/14 and defense from 1/4 to 3/5. These guys have damage outputs higher than their hp. This really needs to be toned down. No unit in homm can deal more than it's own hp in damage and that was done for balance. It's no fun having a unit that is hit first or die trying since the hp to dmg ratio is so skewed.

Druid/Arch-Druid - Tone down the damage on the lightning by a little bit. It just slaughters armies. Their lightning bolts tear through enemies like butter and could use a 15-25% reduction in power. Give them another spell to make up for it but right now they are simply 1 trick ponies. Why cast another spell when lightning bolt is so astonishingly powerful?

Necropolis -
Zombie/Plague Zombie - +1 to initiative. Same reason as squire/golem.

Ghost/Scepter - These guys are fine but the way the incorporeal ability works is simply whack. 50% chance to miss is a luckfest waiting to happen. I can just see players getting 'unlucky' and wasting a whole turn(death against a decent army) trying to gib those ghosts. It should be returned to the way it was in homm3. 100% bonus to defense against regular attacks so spells still are powerful against them.

Inferno -
Horned Demon/Horned Overseer - +1 to initiative. Same reason as squire/golem/zombie.

Succubi Mistress - Chain Shot is an insane ability. Tone that down please. It dominates armies and makes inferno over-reliant on the succubi. I'd probably half the damage of chain shot overall meanwhile keeping her regular damage the same.

Devil/Arch-devil - These guys seem a little weak for their price especially considering their lack of abilities(teleport is simply flight realistically). I'd definitely up their movement to make that teleport threatening. Not sure how much but I wonder if it would imbalance anything to give him battlefield-wide teleport(can attack any unit on the map) particularly given his current stats.

There I posted my ideas on the game right now. I'm sure I'm not right on some of them but I tried to only suggest what I currently found killing the fun abit in my homm V games. Feel free to post what you agree and disagree with.

[Bandobras Took]

Now I've hardly played enough to be sure how balanced most units/spells are. However, their are a few that are imbalanced enough that it is quite evident it's simply too gamebreaking. They clearly outshine the competition so I'm going to post the changes I'd like to see in patch 1.2.

Hmmm . . . evidence isn't usually on the side of inadequate gameplay, but it can be correct. We'll see.

All spellcasters in general should make buffs/debuffs more powerful the more in the stack. Either that or make buffs/debuffs waste less mana when cast by larger stacks so say a stack of 50 inquisitors casting haste will waste only 1 mana while 1 inquisitor will waste all his mana doing it.

You fail to provide a reason for this. The last thing I want is for Druid Elders to be able to plop down 5xEndurance as well as a couple of Lightning Bolts.

Begin every map with the tier 1 building and first town hall upgrade. This is simply a waste of time for every player as every player will ALWAYS build these 2 first. A lot of the other homms had the tier 1 building built already so why not in this case. If nival's intention is to speed up gameplay eliminating 2-3 useless turns at the beginning of a match would clearly reduce a game by a good 5 minutes so why not?

Unless, of course, you don't bother. Deleb's not going to be worrying so much about the number of Imps she's got on day one. I confess I go Economics, but the Haven player with Ellaine doesn't have to worry about the Town Hall dwelling as much.

The Battlefield should be 2-3 squares longer. Exactly enough so that very few units can ever reach the other side of the battlefield in one round and without the enemy reacting. This would signifantly reduce the luck factor of poor placement in the tactic phase.

As well as the "outguess your opponent factor." I'd haven't noticed a plethora of units crossing the Battlefield in one turn -- at least, not without skills/artifacts.

Ultimate Skills should have less requirements. Not that much less but dropping a single requirement off of each ultimate skill would go a long way in making them achievable in at least some multiplayer games.

I don't think it's a good idea to turn every game into a race for the ultimate. The flavor's there, but it's a singleplayer reward. The MP reward is what it's always been: the knowledge that you can outplay another human being.

Skills -
Enlightenment:
Scholar - Make scholar add +2 knowledge on top of the current bonus.
This ability seems weak to me as you can always learn all your spells from the mage guild anyways. If someone can find a real use for this ability please tell me and I'll revise my change.

A portable spellbook has sometimes been useful in previous heroes games -- most often on a secondary hero, who can shuttle between mage guilds to bring spells to your main hero, who's out on the front.

Arcane Intuition - Make intuition add +2 spell power on top of the current bonus. This seems like a too specific of an ability for me as well. Although it seems to have a use vs neutrals I'd still improve this anyways as it is such a situational ability.

Most skills have at least one situational subability. I don't propose to improve Navigation just because it only works when you're in a boat.

War Machines:
First Aid - Let this ability up the charges on the first aid tent. A flat quantity of 3 charges makes the first aid tent a little weak. This would definitely encourage me to pick this underused skill.

It's only underused because people consistently underestimate the effect of 300 points of resurrection in the early game for every single battle. The Inferno with its majority of Ground Troops can benefit greatly with this skill.

Spells -
Phantom Phorces - Eliminate the incorporeal effect or move them up to rank 5. Far too powerful of a spell for a level 3 move. Even mirror image(level 5 spell in homm2) was a 1 shot removal although it could always be insta-dispelled by any unit in range.

Actually, I would change it so that the summoned stack does not get to act immediately after the casting. There's so much potential abuse in the initiative jump that the problem really lies there. Not in having to do magic damage against them.

Academy -
Golems - +1 to initiative. I usually leave these guys behind because they are too slow. Also with a bigger battlefield they need to move more often so they can actually do something. Initiative apparantly was not factored in when balancing units by the looks of it.

Which is why when I get expert Artificer, the first thing I usually make is an Initiative, Movement, and Luck enhancer for my Golems. Funny what special abilities can do for a town. Never mind Artificial Glory and March of the Golems.

The rest seems fine to me although mage/arch-mages seem a little too powerful for their level although probably not enough to warrant any changes yet. Djinn's seem the other way around and look only like buff/debuffers to me.

No more so than Druid Elders, Imperial Griffins, or Succubus Mistresses. All of those are commonly recognized as backbreaking troops, and are on the same tier.

Djinn are vulnerable and are meant to use their random cast, I'd say. Every town has some weaker/nearly useless units. Djinn provide a support role while being a Tier 5 creature. At least you don't have a worthless L7 in the Academy.

Dungeon -
Seems ok to me although I haven't played them much to be sure. The Rider Charge ability on raiders seems a little much although the raiders themselves aren't that good.

The Rider's ability isn't much compared to a Paladin's. That's something that'll likely need to be toned down. Having a L6-7 hitter doesn't tip the Dungeon on the side of overpowered when you consider the low growth of all the creatures involved.

Removing 100% of defense easily simply slaughters the tier 6-7 units too easily. Particularly when tier 6-7 units aren't the powerhouses they used to be in the old homm games.

Level Seven units are not powerhouses; Level 6 units generally rule the day.

Also statistically they are far more powerful than the other tier 4 units even factoring in their increased gold cost. I mean compare these guys to gryphons and vampires.

You've got to be kidding; you're rating the Grim Raider's Charge above an Imperial Griffin's Battle Dive, a Druid Elder's spell assault, or the Succubus Mistress' Chain Attack? I'm not buying that.

Haven -
Knights/Squires - +1 initiative. Just like the golems from the academy these guys need to get to take their turns more quickly. Another unit I generally leave behind.

Notice that Squires have an aura to deflect ranged attacks. It would sure seem like their role is that of protector for a Ranged Stack. And that Shield Bash is a nasty thing on its own.

Cavaliers - Reduce jousting bonus from 10% per square to 5% per square. These guys are simply insane when charging into battle. Not minding their excellent speed, damage, and decent hp pool they don't need that killer charge bonus. That really needs to be toned down.

I pretty much agree here. If there's a unit to be toned down, the Paladin's the first choice. Combine with Klaus, they're the most terrifying stack on a field.

Sylvan -
Hunter/Master Hunter - Damage reduced to 4-7/5-8 to 3-5/4-6. Hitpoints increased to 12/16 from 10/14 and defense from 1/4 to 3/5. These guys have damage outputs higher than their hp. This really needs to be toned down. No unit in homm can deal more than it's own hp in damage and that was done for balance. It's no fun having a unit that is hit first or die trying since the hp to dmg ratio is so skewed.

I'm not in favor of a general tendency towards generic units. Cerberi have a similar problem with a tremendous damage capacity (a three-headed Hellfire attack is one of my favorite things to watch in H5) with extreme vulnerability. You do have to use Hunters in a special way, but I'd rather not see such things taken away.

Druid/Arch-Druid - Tone down the damage on the lightning by a little bit. It just slaughters armies. Their lightning bolts tear through enemies like butter and could use a 15-25% reduction in power. Give them another spell to make up for it but right now they are simply 1 trick ponies. Why cast another spell when lightning bolt is so astonishingly powerful?

Because Stone Spikes has an area effect, and if you're up against a Magic Resistance Specialist, you'll likely want to buff your own army.

Necropolis -
Zombie/Plague Zombie - +1 to initiative. Same reason as squire/golem.

Not quite; there aren't as many options to speed up Zombies as there are to speed up Golems. And does a Necromancer carting around 2k Skeleton Archers really need his Zombies improved?

Ghost/Scepter - These guys are fine but the way the incorporeal ability works is simply whack. 50% chance to miss is a luckfest waiting to happen. I can just see players getting 'unlucky' and wasting a whole turn(death against a decent army) trying to gib those ghosts. It should be returned to the way it was in homm3. 100% bonus to defense against regular attacks so spells still are powerful against them.

Ghosts are really vulnerable to spells. A 50% miss chance just means that you have to branch out from purely physical attacks. I've got no problem with that. Now, in the beta, where Spectral Dragons and Wraiths also had it, there was a bit of a balance problem.

Inferno -
Horned Demon/Horned Overseer - +1 to initiative. Same reason as squire/golem/zombie.

Two Words: Teleport Assault.

Succubi Mistress - Chain Shot is an insane ability. Tone that down please. It dominates armies and makes inferno over-reliant on the succubi. I'd probably half the damage of chain shot overall meanwhile keeping her regular damage the same.

Because the Inferno's only Ranged attack (and note that they're the only faction with just one ranged attack) needs to be weaker? Relying on Succubi is one way to play the Inferno, but it's not the only way.

Devil/Arch-devil - These guys seem a little weak for their price especially considering their lack of abilities(teleport is simply flight realistically). I'd definitely up their movement to make that teleport threatening. Not sure how much but I wonder if it would imbalance anything to give him battlefield-wide teleport(can attack any unit on the map) particularly given his current stats.

I agree that you pay too much for what you're getting with the Devils. I'd personally rather see them have the Fire Shield ability à la Phoenix/Fire Elementals.

There I posted my ideas on the game right now. I'm sure I'm not right on some of them but I tried to only suggest what I currently found killing the fun abit in my homm V games. Feel free to post what you agree and disagree with.

It seems I disagree with rather a lot, but I think my arguments stand up. Most units cannot be considered in a vacuum; they have to be considered in terms of their overall town lineup and the abilities of the Town Hero. Any analysis of Inferno units, for example, is incomplete without considering both Gating and Teleport Assault.

Analyses of Wizard's Units have to take into account a strong spellcasting Hero as well as the ability to customize units through Artificer.

Most of the issues you've brought are not manifestly overpowered. And you didn't even mention the 5,000 skeletons of the Necromancers.

Just a few thoughts and responses.

[playforfun]

Of all the proposed changes I only support toning down of phantom based on my few weeks of inadequate playing. Multiple replications of large caster/shooter stacks is just a bit crazy and too useful in most situations.

In general, I think variety is important so a tactic/spell/creature etc. only needs fixing when this can be used in a great many ways without equally easy and effective counters (or vice versa for an underpowered tactic/creature, etc).

[Gus]

I think pretty much all you ask emerges from a lack of play of the game (and that's not to be offensive). I have said it before and will say it again, except a couple of issues (Klaus's bonus to Jousting seems to be one of those), no one can say what is and is not overpowered or imbalanced until multiplayer works and there are a lot of tournaments happening, where really good players (a group to which i don't think i belong) can try to outsmart each other with clever tactics, bordering abuse. THAT is when we can notice things that are overpowered.

[falcore19]

The succubus is a very good unit, but I don't think chain shot is overpowered. It's like chain lighting : full damage to 1st unit, half damage to second, 1/4 to third, etc. The other units of the same tier have good abilities too.

As for the arch devils, I haven't tested them much, but don't forget they can raise pit lords once per combat. I don't know if they raise many, but that could be very useful in big battles. I can think of some instances :

Teleport assault your 300 demons in the castle next to the archers, have them explode. The enemy gang bang on them and kill em, then you raise pit lords in the same spot...

[DaemianLucifer]

I agree just with toning down the phantom forces and making first aid and eagle eye stronger.Some other abilities need to be a bit stronger too.Phantom forces would be best toned down the way HIV did it,but considering the rule,it won happen.

[Bandobras Took]

The succubus is a very good unit, but I don't think chain shot is overpowered. It's like chain lighting : full damage to 1st unit, half damage to second, 1/4 to third, etc. The other units of the same tier have good abilities too.

As for the arch devils, I haven't tested them much, but don't forget they can raise pit lords once per combat. I don't know if they raise many, but that could be very useful in big battles. I can think of some instances :

Teleport assault your 300 demons in the castle next to the archers, have them explode. The enemy gang bang on them and kill em, then you raise pit lords in the same spot...

It still requires one of your stacks to be completely dead. I try to avoid that kind of thing.

[thecheese]

General -

All spellcasters in general should make buffs/debuffs more powerful the more in the stack. Either that or make buffs/debuffs waste less mana when cast by larger stacks so say a stack of 50 inquisitors casting haste will waste only 1 mana while 1 inquisitor will waste all his mana doing it.

I can understand why this might seem to make sense, but it's there for balance purposes.

Begin every map with the tier 1 building and first town hall upgrade. This is simply a waste of time for every player as every player will ALWAYS build these 2 first. A lot of the other homms had the tier 1 building built already so why not in this case. If nival's intention is to speed up gameplay eliminating 2-3 useless turns at the beginning of a match would clearly reduce a game by a good 5 minutes so why not?

When the map editor comes out, you can make your own maps to this tone. I don't see why you complain about this, it's not that big of a deal, especially considering how, since everyone suffers from it, that time loss becomes relative. Not worth mentioning.

The Battlefield should be 2-3 squares longer. Exactly enough so that very few units can ever reach the other side of the battlefield in one round and without the enemy reacting. This would signifantly reduce the luck factor of poor placement in the tactic phase.

I agree.

Ultimate Skills should have less requirements. Not that much less but dropping a single requirement off of each ultimate skill would go a long way in making them achievable in at least some multiplayer games.

Ultimate skills are just that: ultimate. They shouldn't be changed, it's worked fine without them for all the other homm games.

Skills -
Enlightenment:
Scholar - Make scholar add +2 knowledge on top of the current bonus.
This ability seems weak to me as you can always learn all your spells from the mage guild anyways. If someone can find a real use for this ability please tell me and I'll revise my change.

This ability is very situational, I'd agree. Nevertheless, it can be useful when you have castles on opposite ends of the map, and the spell you just wanted showed up in one and your hero is fighting the enemy on the other side and can't afford to leave. I don't think there's a legitimate way to convince the devs that this situational skill should be made anything but situational.

Arcane Intuition - Make intuition add +2 spell power on top of the current bonus. This seems like a too specific of an ability for me as well. Although it seems to have a use vs neutrals I'd still improve this anyways as it is such a situational ability.

Much like scholar, it's just supposed to be that specific. I wouldn't chose it over anything else just for the +2 spell power; if I wanted it, it'd be for the learning ability. Sometimes, it's nice to have; say you're a high level hero with upper-end magic skills, but you're too poor to build from your mage guild; or, you just built a level, hoping it would contain the spell you wanted, but didn't, and you don't have another castle. You could take it then.

War Machines:
First Aid - Let this ability up the charges on the first aid tent. A flat quantity of 3 charges makes the first aid tent a little weak. This would definitely encourage me to pick this underused skill.

I do tend to agree that only 3 charges on the tent seems a little...stupid. However, its ability to ressurect when under control kind of makes up for this, but I'd still like to see the charges increased.

Spells -
Phantom Phorces - Eliminate the incorporeal effect or move them up to rank 5. Far too powerful of a spell for a level 3 move. Even mirror image(level 5 spell in homm2) was a 1 shot removal although it could always be insta-dispelled by any unit in range.

Now stop and think about what you're saying here. First of all, the troop tier is limited based on your skill, so in order for you to really see this in action, you need expert summoning. Secondly, mirror image was in homm2, which had a completely different spell system governing it (wisdom) and thus, one could claim that spell was too powerful because it was easy to get. Finally, just incorporate the new mob into an area affect spell with the original, and bam, it's gone. The hero could be casting worse things than this.

Academy -
Golems - +1 to initiative. I usually leave these guys behind because they are too slow. Also with a bigger battlefield they need to move more often so they can actually do something. Initiative apparantly was not factored in when balancing units by the looks of it.
The rest seems fine to me although mage/arch-mages seem a little too powerful for their level although probably not enough to warrant any changes yet. Djinn's seem the other way around and look only like buff/debuffers to me.

I'd support the golem upgrade, if not for the available ways to boost their initiative through the hero.

Dungeon -
Seems ok to me although I haven't played them much to be sure. The Rider Charge ability on raiders seems a little much although the raiders themselves aren't that good. Removing 100% of defense easily simply slaughters the tier 6-7 units too easily. Particularly when tier 6-7 units aren't the powerhouses they used to be in the old homm games. Also statistically they are far more powerful than the other tier 4 units even factoring in their increased gold cost. I mean compare these guys to gryphons and vampires.

See some of the other posts on this, I don't think I could add anything.

Haven -
Knights/Squires - +1 initiative. Just like the golems from the academy these guys need to get to take their turns more quickly. Another unit I generally leave behind.

Do the words "defensive unit" mean nothing to you? Add in that Squires have a kick ass shield unit ability, and I can't really understand what you're thinking here.

Cavaliers - Reduce jousting bonus from 10% per square to 5% per square. These guys are simply insane when charging into battle. Not minding their excellent speed, damage, and decent hp pool they don't need that killer charge bonus. That really needs to be toned down.

Agree.

Sylvan -
Hunter/Master Hunter - Damage reduced to 4-7/5-8 to 3-5/4-6. Hitpoints increased to 12/16 from 10/14 and defense from 1/4 to 3/5. These guys have damage outputs higher than their hp. This really needs to be toned down. No unit in homm can deal more than it's own hp in damage and that was done for balance. It's no fun having a unit that is hit first or die trying since the hp to dmg ratio is so skewed.

Druid/Arch-Druid - Tone down the damage on the lightning by a little bit. It just slaughters armies. Their lightning bolts tear through enemies like butter and could use a 15-25% reduction in power. Give them another spell to make up for it but right now they are simply 1 trick ponies. Why cast another spell when lightning bolt is so astonishingly powerful?

Necropolis -
Zombie/Plague Zombie - +1 to initiative. Same reason as squire/golem.

See other posts.

Ghost/Scepter - These guys are fine but the way the incorporeal ability works is simply whack. 50% chance to miss is a luckfest waiting to happen. I can just see players getting 'unlucky' and wasting a whole turn(death against a decent army) trying to gib those ghosts. It should be returned to the way it was in homm3. 100% bonus to defense against regular attacks so spells still are powerful against them.

Double their hp and defense, then, because without the incorporeal effect, these guys are useless. It's fine the way it is.

Inferno -
Horned Demon/Horned Overseer - +1 to initiative. Same reason as squire/golem/zombie.

Teleport Assault + Explosion = rofl

Succubi Mistress - Chain Shot is an insane ability. Tone that down please. It dominates armies and makes inferno over-reliant on the succubi. I'd probably half the damage of chain shot overall meanwhile keeping her regular damage the same.

It needs to be insane. This is the one and only ranged unit for the Infernal, so lets just let her have a bit of power.

Devil/Arch-devil - These guys seem a little weak for their price especially considering their lack of abilities(teleport is simply flight realistically). I'd definitely up their movement to make that teleport threatening. Not sure how much but I wonder if it would imbalance anything to give him battlefield-wide teleport(can attack any unit on the map) particularly given his current stats.

Yes, Devils need work.

[DaemianLucifer]

Now stop and think about what you're saying here. First of all, the troop tier is limited based on your skill, so in order for you to really see this in action, you need expert summoning. Secondly, mirror image was in homm2, which had a completely different spell system governing it (wisdom) and thus, one could claim that spell was too powerful because it was easy to get. Finally, just incorporate the new mob into an area affect spell with the original, and bam, it's gone. The hero could be casting worse things than this.

I dnot think so.Being able to get another 100 succubi attack+their gate is too much.Or,even worse,another 100 hunters kill.This spell is way to powerfull.And with sorcery,you can flood the field with this one.

Double their hp and defense, then, because without the incorporeal effect, these guys are useless. It's fine the way it is.

Making them receive half the physical damage would be much better,since it wouldnt relly this much on luck.A hundred dragons missing a single ghost?Please.

[ClownRoyal]

Everyone else seems to have covered most of the feedback I would give, except I will say a few things:

Zombies should really have some kind of initiative boost. I have found pretty much no use at all for them, other than using them to shield my skeleton archers in the corner from large enemies. But then of course they're vulnerable to area effect skills/spells. They certainly are no Squire on defense either, providing no protection from ranged units. With the general speed of the Necromancer army, I'm lucky if my Zombies even make it to the middle of the field before the battle is over.

I'm neutral on the increased battlefield size. On one hand, it would prevent a first-turn Paladin charge that wipes out pretty much any unit it can reach, but on the other, it also prevents other units from doing their job properly. For instance, a Cerberus stack would no longer be able to reach those Titans, Liches, or other 2x2 creature with one move. Take the first attack away from a Cerberus stack, and they are easy kills for the opponent with their low def/hp relative to their damage output.

Devils could use a bit of work. In fact I think the entire Inferno faction could see a little revision to get rid of the stupid recurring numbers theme for costs and stats. But specifically talking about Devils, they just need a movement range increase. They have some pretty solid damage stats, and their defense isn't bad, considering the general weakness of Inferno on defense. I don't think giving them a large teleport range would make them too strong, especially since they are large creatures, and still wouldn't be able to get to a guarded shooter unit.

[thecheese]

Then do what Took said and alter the initative of the phantoms.

And why waste your dragon's attack on the ghost? Use spells, or area attacks; use inconsequential methods of attacking them, since, even if they don't do as much damage as a direct attack (i.e. scatter shot, fireball), ghosts can't take much when they get hit. If you have to fight nothing but ghosts, then just try to shoot them down from a distance, or keep on plugging at them. They go down so easily once hit that you just need to pace it out so that you're not hitting them with anything that important.

[DaemianLucifer]

Then do what Took said and alter the initative of the phantoms.

And why waste your dragon's attack on the ghost? Use spells, or area attacks; use inconsequential methods of attacking them, since, even if they don't do as much damage as a direct attack (i.e. scatter shot, fireball), ghosts can't take much when they get hit. If you have to fight nothing but ghosts, then just try to shoot them down from a distance, or keep on plugging at them. They go down so easily once hit that you just need to pace it out so that you're not hitting them with anything that important.

Youve completely missed my point.

[thecheese]

Then do what Took said and alter the initative of the phantoms.

And why waste your dragon's attack on the ghost? Use spells, or area attacks; use inconsequential methods of attacking them, since, even if they don't do as much damage as a direct attack (i.e. scatter shot, fireball), ghosts can't take much when they get hit. If you have to fight nothing but ghosts, then just try to shoot them down from a distance, or keep on plugging at them. They go down so easily once hit that you just need to pace it out so that you're not hitting them with anything that important.

Youve completely missed my point.

Your point being that a hundred dragons can miss a single ghost? Then propose a mechanic that alters the % to miss based on the ratio of ghosts to enemies, or ghosts to attack skill of the enemy, with the cap not being able to exceed 50%.

[DaemianLucifer]

Your point being that a hundred dragons can miss a single ghost? Then propose a mechanic that alters the % to miss based on the ratio of ghosts to enemies, or ghosts to attack skill of the enemy, with the cap not being able to exceed 50%.

I did propose such a mechanic:50% physical damage reduction,rounded down.Not 50% greater defense,or hit points,but damage reduction.Its calculated normaly using the defense and attack standard rules,but its being halfed.And this way its not overpowering and can be added to wraiths and spectral dragons as well.

[jaq]

Ultimate skills are just that: ultimate. They shouldn't be changed, it's worked fine without them for all the other homm games.

I agree that ultimate should remain the ultimate - that is achievable at experience level 30. But while for Wizard, Ranger, Daemon Lord and Necromancer the paths are either by-the-way or worthy to pick the alternative ultimate path - for Knight it's not worth it and for Warlock it must be kidding: no spellcasting skills for expert of Irrisistible magic, Soldiers' Luck, Tear of Asha and no army boosters? And while Elemental Chain boosting is OK, it should be maybe tripled, not doubled.

there aren't as many options to speed up Zombies as there are to speed up Golems. And does a Necromancer carting around 2k Skeleton Archers really need his Zombies improved?

Well, in my last fight in Necro campaign I've survived only because of 130 Zombies, Spirit Link perk and all the time ressurected immaterial Spectres. Skeleton Archers didn't count, Wraiths were quite fierce but not as useful as Spectres. Zombies are good in long fights, their Weakness special and steady slowness are really Oll Korrekt then.

[MrSteamTank]

I'm aware most of you disagree with my suggestions BUT you must understand that units should be balanced both between different factions and the faction itself. If one unit is a good deal better than the alternatives well then guess what? I'm definitely building that unit unless I don't have the resources for it. Wow fun game with many balanced tactics(yeah right).

You can always defend that race X is balanced because unit Y is overpowering thus making up for it's deficiencies. However, that really kills the game for me as I would like to see specializing in most units as a possibility. What the hell is the point of having zombie specialization on a hero if zombies suck? Sure skeletons make up for it but come on I might as well forget about that hero altogether.

As for having the initiative bonus' I did it to make up for the bigger battlefield that I was suggesting.

As for buffs getting more powerful with the more units in a stack. Well this obviously makes sense. I find myself having every empty slot in my stack with 1 druid/inquisitor/etc to buff my army. What's the point of ever casting a buff spell with 40-50 druids if just a handful druid can do the same and not waste the attack of the remaining 99% of the stack. If a guy has 50 arch-druids and he wastes a turn using them to buff one of his stacks then it should be a fairly decent buff. He's sacrificing the turn of so many arch-druids when he could of just split the army in tiny stacks just for buffing. It simply removes strategic possibility.

A good game is balanced between races and a great game is balanced within itself. When I cited my balance reasons I only mentioned the small % of units, spells, and abilities that struck me as too strong/weak.

[DaemianLucifer]

I'm aware most of you disagree with my suggestions BUT you must understand that units should be balanced both between different factions and the faction itself. If one unit is a 100 times better than the alternatives well then guess what? I'm definitely building that unit unless I don't have the resources for it. Wow fun game with many balanced tactics(yeah right).

You can always defend that race X is balanced because unit Y is overpowering thus making up for it's deficiencies. However, that really kills the game for me as I would like to see specializing in most units as a possibility. What the hell is the point of having zombie specialization on a hero if zombies suck? Sure skeletons make up for it but come on I might as well forget about that hero altogether.

Ah,but they wanted to balance out all the units.Thats why we have useless level 7s,and unreplacable level 1s.Thats why we have a doggy that can outrun an angel.

[jaq]

Well, some your points has been taken, but the general idea of making every fraction functionally equivalent is not good. For example Grim Riders' special is great and they have exceptional speed as well as Blood Furies but they're both dying like flies and Witches and Hydras just suck. Balancing - right, unifying - wrong

[MrSteamTank]

Well, some your points has been taken, but the general idea of making every fraction functionally equivalent is not good. For example Grim Riders' special is great and they have exceptional speed as well as Blood Furies but they're both dying like flies and Witches and Hydras just suck. Balancing - right, unifying - wrong

Grim raiders don't seem any weaker than the other racial equivalents(gryphons & vampires)(60 hp compared to 35 for both vampires and gryphons). Anyways how is one unit better than the others unifying? Imagine an infernal army without succubi mistress? That army would be at a significant disadvantage to any other infernal army. Forcing you to get them as they are such powerhouses at both fighting neutrals and enemy heroes.

Although I do appreciate the positive tone on these forums. Much better community imo.

[DaemianLucifer]

Grim raiders don't seem any weaker than the other racial equivalents(gryphons & vampires)(60 hp compared to 35 for both vampires and gryphons). Anyways how is one unit better than the others unifying? Imagine an infernal army without succubi mistress? That army would be at a significant disadvantage to any other infernal army. Forcing you to get them as they are such powerhouses at both fighting neutrals and enemy heroes.

You cant compare just HP.And the spcial play a big role.Imperial griffins are almost imposible to attack because of the battle dive,and vampires are hard to kill when in masses.

Although I do appreciate the positive tone on these forums. Much better community imo.

Thanks,we try