Race and Town Creation Contest - Please tell me your ideas

[Jimmpi]

Yeah,,that idee of 3 uppgrades I like..That you have to think a bit more tactical...Like you said,,maybe in Heroes VI..

[Kiyoko]

on the subject of high tech. I'm pretty sure I encoutered a laser pistol in MM7, now THAT is high tech. compared to that a thunder stick is nothing. although I like the alchemistic potion thrower better. it gives a lot of potential for upgrades and special abilities.

[Genesis]

Here's an alternative to my Dwarf list:




STRONGHOLD

Motto: “Might is power, power is glory, glory is to be remembered, remembrance is immortality.”

• Aka: The Orcs
• Associated colors: Green, red and white
• Worship: The Orcs have taken on their former masters aetheism, and regard the dragons as a worthy challenge which, if destroyed or subjugated, will give them ultimate glory. After all, if one can destroy a 'god', what cannot be destroyed?
• Core philosophy: “Might makes right.”
• Country / kingdom: Ranaar
• Capital city: Stonehelm, the Great Deeps
• Key symbols: Battleaxe, dog-tooth designs, skulls etc.


General gist: An interesting alternative to the Dwarves. I've read that the Orcs had freed themselves from the wizards of the Silver Cities and run off somewhere. We know that the wizards are extremely magical and the Dwarves are heavily anti-magic. So why not have some of them (why would they be united?) fleeing to the east, sacking the Dwarven stronghold of Stonehelm and making their own kingdom in the cold peaks, safe from the magic of the wizards in their anti-magic realm? Of course, we need a bit of inspiration and not just a rehash of the Heroes III Stronghold in a snowy setting, so some oldies will have to go and others come in. Note that a few that I put in the Dwarven list could equally go into this one, but I'm not putting them in here because that would make things boring. Anyway, you'll notice the lack of Goblins - they seem to prefer warmer settings.


- Creatures (WIP)

Tier 1 - Dwarf Slave/Battle Dwarf
Dwelling: Slave Pens
Reason: This one needs an explanation. I've added this because it draws an ironic parallel to the Orcs past - the slaves have become the slavers. However, I've made it different to the slavery of the Minotaurs - those Dwarves who accept their fate and join with their masters are freed and given weapons and armour. Again, this makes it interesting - the Orcs, almost spitefully, are giving their slaves a chance they never had. I could say more, but you can work the rest out. I envision the former to be a manacled, pitiful, hunched figure with only a ball and chain (think HoMM III Gremlin), and the latter to be a slightly less ragged axeman wearing basic leather armour.
Suggested Abilities: Rather unsure with this one, but that ball and chain could come in handy. Also, something to do with the Dwarves' inherant magic resistance would be welcome.

Tier 2 - Orc Warrior/Orc Raider
Dwelling: Orc Tower
Reason: It's not easy being green (or in this case, an earthy red). Why tier 2? Because Orcs were always a weak tier 3, and we need a low tier member of the predominant race somewhere.
Suggested Abilities: Berserk?

Tier 3 - Gnoll/Gnoll Marauder
Dwelling: Gnoll Hut
Reason: Gnolls always seemed to have a rather similar mindset to the Orcs, and their furryness makes them ideal for winter conditions. They also seemed a bit weak and small in HoMM III for what I considered to be enormous, savage (yet cunning) dog-men. They were always one of my favourite level 1s, and it was sad not seeing them in Heroes IV or V. So now its time to buff them up and unleash them...
Suggested abilities: Unlimited retaliations?

Tier 4 - Orc Captain/Orc Chieftain
Dwelling: Officer's Quarters
Reason: Large hordes need multiple officers, and so I've brought in some higher-ranking muscle to give the Orcs some hitting power. And since they're officers, they can be cavalry (wolves of course).
Suggested abilities: Spellbook with leadership-orientated powers / cavalry

Tier 5 - Ogre/Ogre Magi
Dwelling: Ogre Fort
Reason: Where would Orcs be without Ogres? You can't have a barbarian horde without brutes with clubs. There's also another advantage: Ogres make perfect taskmasters, so those Dwarves won't find it easy to revolt...
Suggested abilities: No spellbook, but can cast the ever-faithful Bloodlust on friendly troops.

Tier 6 - Roc Windrider/Roc Stormcaller
Dwelling: Cliff Nest
Reason: A flying unit is desperately needed, and the Rocs seem to fit in fine. To add a bit of flair and to justify the tier increase, an Orcish spellcaster would make a good rider.
Suggested abilities: Flying / spellbook with destructive magic.

Tier 7 - Giant/Giant Warlord
Dwelling: Giant's Gate
Reason: Of course, this is interchangeable with Behemoth suggestion; but it rounds off the list with a nice big creature that goes well with barbarian hordes.
Suggested abilities: Literally crushing enemies underfoot.




I'll write more in the reasoning sections and add the suggested abilities sections when I've got time...

[soupnazii]

ok, but if your going to make a greenskin town dont involve the dwarves in it. they have nothing to do with greenskins and should get a town of their own. for the roc, how about Roc -> Thunderbird? dont mess with a classic, or something like that... personally, i would put behemoths or cyclops at top because academy already has a tier 7 "giant" unit and the dwarves are probably going to have a mountain giant or something for like tier 5 (thats why academy uses "Collosus" and not Giant so that the name is not taken already. either way its a nice town cause i wouldnt have put so much thought and descriptions if i made a town so good job.

[DaemianLucifer]

General gist: An interesting alternative to the Dwarves. I've read that the Orcs had freed themselves from the wizards of the Silver Cities and run off somewhere. We know that the wizards are extremely magical and the Dwarves are heavily anti-magic. So why not have some of them (why would they be united?) fleeing to the east, sacking the Dwarven stronghold of Stonehelm and making their own kingdom in the cold peaks, safe from the magic of the wizards in their anti-magic realm? Of course, we need a bit of inspiration and not just a rehash of the Heroes III Stronghold in a snowy setting, so some oldies will have to go and others come in. Note that a few that I put in the Dwarven list could equally go into this one, but I'm not putting them in here because that would make things boring. Anyway, you'll notice the lack of Goblins - they seem to prefer warmer settings.

I liked your previous proposal,so lets see this one.It sounds promising.

- Creatures (WIP)

Tier 1 - Dwarf Slave/Battle Dwarf
Dwelling: Slave Pens
Reason: This one needs an explanation. I've added this because it draws an ironic parallel to the Orcs past - the slaves have become the slavers. However, I've made it different to the slavery of the Minotaurs - those Dwarves who accept their fate and join with their masters are freed and given weapons and armour. Again, this makes it interesting - the Orcs, almost spitefully, are giving their slaves a chance they never had. I could say more, but you can work the rest out. I envision the former to be a manacled, pitiful, hunched figure with only a ball and chain (think HoMM III Gremlin), and the latter to be a slightly less ragged axeman wearing basic leather armour.
Suggested Abilities: Rather unsure with this one, but that ball and chain could come in handy. Also, something to do with the Dwarves' inherant magic resistance would be welcome.

You should stop before someone stelas your ideas This one is very nice.

Tier 2 - Orc Warrior/Orc Raider
Dwelling: Orc Tower
Reason: It's not easy being green (or in this case, an earthy red). Why tier 2? Because Orcs were always a weak tier 3, and we need a low tier member of the predominant race somewhere.
Suggested Abilities: Berserk?

Ok,this one is almost a standard.

Tier 3 - Gnoll/Gnoll Marauder
Dwelling: Gnoll Hut
Reason: Gnolls always seemed to have a rather similar mindset to the Orcs, and their furryness makes them ideal for winter conditions. They also seemed a bit weak and small in HoMM III for what I considered to be enormous, savage (yet cunning) dog-men. They were always one of my favourite level 1s, and it was sad not seeing them in Heroes IV or V. So now its time to buff them up and unleash them...
Suggested abilities: Unlimited retaliations?

I see gnolls more in tropical areas and savanas.They dont strike me quite as winter creatures.And an aliance with orcs that are untrustworthy(considering their past,and the mind set you created in previous writing)is a bit hard to believe.

Tier 4 - Orc Captain/Orc Chieftain
Dwelling: Officer's Quarters
Reason: Large hordes need multiple officers, and so I've brought in some higher-ranking muscle to give the Orcs some hitting power. And since they're officers, they can be cavalry (wolves of course).
Suggested abilities: Spellbook with leadership-orientated powers / cavalry

Maybe captain should be the upgrade,and basic could be lord.Or vice versa.I dont like too many chieftains.And instead of wolves,wargs seem better and more ferocous.Maybe for the upgrade.

Tier 5 - Ogre/Ogre Magi
Dwelling: Ogre Fort
Reason: Where would Orcs be without Ogres? You can't have a barbarian horde without brutes with clubs. There's also another advantage: Ogres make perfect taskmasters, so those Dwarves won't find it easy to revolt...
Suggested abilities: No spellbook, but can cast the ever-faithful Bloodlust on friendly troops.

Id change the place of these two since ogres dont strike me as pretty clever.But an orc shaman would fit here better(maybe a troll shaman?).

Tier 6 - Roc Windrider/Roc Stormcaller
Dwelling: Cliff Nest
Reason: A flying unit is desperately needed, and the Rocs seem to fit in fine. To add a bit of flair and to justify the tier increase, an Orcish spellcaster would make a good rider.
Suggested abilities: Flying / spellbook with destructive magic.

Well ots nice to add a spellcaster to a flying unit.But some other bird would fit better then a desert inhabitant,the roc.A giant eagle,perhaps.

Tier 7 - Giant/Giant Warlord
Dwelling: Giant's Gate
Reason: Of course, this is interchangeable with Behemoth suggestion; but it rounds off the list with a nice big creature that goes well with barbarian hordes.
Suggested abilities: Literally crushing enemies underfoot.

I still prefer the behemoth here.

Overal its a nice suggestion,but the previous one was better.I like the way you added dwarves here,though.It really is very interesting and original.(although some dwarf lovers may kill you after that )

[soupnazii]

yep, you better watch out for those killer dwarf-lovers, man!

anyway, i did another one for academy:



Academy – Arabian-like mage town, based in snowy mountains

1 Gremlin Slave
1+ Master Gremlin
1++a Warrior Gremlin (High damage, high defense)
1++b Gremlin Cannoneer (Average attack, average defense, ranged attack)

2 Stone Golem
2+ Granite Golem
2++a Iron Golem (High attack, high defense)
2++b Gold Golem (Average attack, low defense, 100% hostile-spell-resistant)

3 Wanderer
3+ Traveler
3++a Nomad (High attack, low defense, fast)
3++b Gipsy (Average attack, high defense, slow, random harmful spell on attack)

4 Apprentice
4+ Mage
4++a Archmage (High defense, 15% magic resistant, low attack, casts beneficial spells)
4++b Wizard (Average defense, very high attack, 5% magic resistant, casts bless and curse)

5 Imprisoned Genie
5+ Genie (incorporeal)
5++a Master Genie (Low defense, high attack, casts beneficial and harmful spells, incorporeal)
5++b Genie Sultan (Very high defense, high attack, very fast, casts beneficial spells, harmful spell on attack)

6 Naga
6+ Naga Guard
6++a Naga Queen (Average defense, high attack, no enemy retaliation)
6++b Naga Warrior (High defense, average attack, fear effect, unlimited retaliation)

7 ((Big?? Abnormally Large??))
7+ Giant
7++a Colossus (High defense, very high damage, 30% magic resistant)
7++b Titan (Very high defense, high damage, ranged, no range penalty, no melee penalty)

[DaemianLucifer]

@soupnazii

A multiple upgrade wont happen because its too much work for them(yeah,ripping of disciples is too much work ),and Im glad it wont because even now we have dumb names.Imagine what would happen if we had double the creatures we have now.

But it is a nice idea.Although,adding a bit of chaos(not every creature has exactly two upgrades)to it would be nice.

[soupnazii]

unequal number of upgrades for different creatures is even less likely though because it would require way more balancing than something like my ideas (yes they did it in Heroes 2, but the game was a bit simpler then and they werent being rushed constantly by the fan community). and even though i know it is very likely not to happen in Heroes 6, i believe we will see multiple upgradesby Heroes 8, if not in 7 (considering the series survives)... its a natural step in HoMM evolution like the transition from no upgrade in H1 to some in H2 to all in H3.

[DaemianLucifer]

(yes they did it in Heroes 2, but the game was a bit simpler then and they werent being rushed constantly by the fan community).

Rushed by the community?Are you talking about the same community that singed a petition to postpone the game for as long as necessary for them to finish it?

its a natural step in HoMM evolution like the transition from no upgrade in H1 to some in H2 to all in H3.

I dont find it a very nice evolution from HII to HIII.From chaotic upgrades to exactly one And it evolved from HIII to HIV as well,but it devolved now.

[soupnazii]

(yes they did it in Heroes 2, but the game was a bit simpler then and they werent being rushed constantly by the fan community).

Rushed by the community?Are you talking about the same community that singed a petition to postpone the game for as long as necessary for them to finish it

no, i am talking about the community that isnt happy with the way the game turns out no matter what is done with it. i am talking about the community that was absolutely furious with the changes made with H4 but then equally angry when they were undone with H5. maybe i shouldnt have used the word "rushed", but what i meant to say was that back then the fan community would take the game and accept it as it is, without making too much of a fuss about the changes made, while today if H6 came out with multiple upgrades (which would probably have to include many other gameplay changes) the community wouldnt be as accepting. so Ubi would have to be wary with any major changes they make with the game from now on. they went back to H3, which was the widely more accepted game (i dont know if still now, but deffinetly at the time they started making the game), and started making slight changes from there. in expansions we will probably see some more changes, and by H10 we will have a very different game. any major game changes like from H3 to H4 will now be done more subtly. at least, that is what i think.

[Orfinn]

Overal its a nice suggestion,but the previous one was better.I like the way you added dwarves here,though.It really is very interesting and original.(although some dwarf lovers may kill you after that :devil

Indeed
very nice proposal though

[ThunderTitan]

no, i am talking about the community that isnt happy with the way the game turns out no matter what is done with it. i am talking about the community that was absolutely furious with the changes made with H4 but then equally angry when they were undone with H5.

And of course those changes that were disliked are the same ones people want back.

[soupnazii]

exactly my point.

[DaemianLucifer]

exactly my point.

He was sarcastic.Its not the stuff we found wrong that we want back.I find the AI in HIV as horible and dont want it back,but what I do want back is flagable windmills and caravans,the stuff that worked perfectly.

[soupnazii]

yes, i want those back too, but we might have to wait for an expansion. like i said, they started with a clean page (H3) and added on from there.

i am right now leaving for about a month, so dont expect me to answer you. i might be able to come on from there, but maybe not, so dont bother making a really good argument against me.

[DaemianLucifer]

so dont bother making a really good argument against me.

Like I was botherng now

[ClownRoyal]

Here's an alternative to my Dwarf list:




STRONGHOLD

Motto: “Might is power, power is glory, glory is to be remembered, remembrance is immortality.”

• Aka: The Orcs
• Associated colors: Green, red and white
• Worship: The Orcs have taken on their former masters aetheism, and regard the dragons as a worthy challenge which, if destroyed or subjugated, will give them ultimate glory. After all, if one can destroy a 'god', what cannot be destroyed?
• Core philosophy: “Might makes right.”
• Country / kingdom: Ranaar
• Capital city: Stonehelm, the Great Deeps
• Key symbols: Battleaxe, dog-tooth designs, skulls etc.

I really liked this list. It looks to have the right "feel" of the Stronghold faction, and the units were nice. Just from reading it, I wouldn't change anything, except it's a toss-up for me between your Tier 7 and the return of the Behemoth. Excellent addition of Gnolls, the differentiation of Orc and Orc Captain, and your Tier 6 idea is really nice.

Now that I look at it again, the Ogres would have no spellbook, right? Then when upgraded to Ogre Magi, gain the bloodlust ability? If so, I would also say toss in a haste spell. I could definitely see that fitting in with a barbarian's lust for getting into melee.

Am I also right in that this army has no shooters? I think it would be an interesting way to present the barbarians. In the case of no shooters, I definitely think some unit should be able to use haste, or give some units the "charge" ability that is in Heroes 5 already.

Definitely a nice Might faction if it were implemented anything like what is presented here.

[Nobody]

- Creatures (WIP)

Tier 1 - Dwarf Slave/Battle Dwarf
Dwelling: Slave Pens
Reason: This one needs an explanation. I've added this because it draws an ironic parallel to the Orcs past - the slaves have become the slavers. However, I've made it different to the slavery of the Minotaurs - those Dwarves who accept their fate and join with their masters are freed and given weapons and armour. Again, this makes it interesting - the Orcs, almost spitefully, are giving their slaves a chance they never had. I could say more, but you can work the rest out. I envision the former to be a manacled, pitiful, hunched figure with only a ball and chain (think HoMM III Gremlin), and the latter to be a slightly less ragged axeman wearing basic leather armour.
Suggested Abilities: Rather unsure with this one, but that ball and chain could come in handy. Also, something to do with the Dwarves' inherant magic resistance would be welcome.

Tier 2 - Orc Warrior/Orc Raider
Dwelling: Orc Tower
Reason: It's not easy being green (or in this case, an earthy red). Why tier 2? Because Orcs were always a weak tier 3, and we need a low tier member of the predominant race somewhere.
Suggested Abilities: Berserk?

Tier 3 - Gnoll/Gnoll Marauder
Dwelling: Gnoll Hut
Reason: Gnolls always seemed to have a rather similar mindset to the Orcs, and their furryness makes them ideal for winter conditions. They also seemed a bit weak and small in HoMM III for what I considered to be enormous, savage (yet cunning) dog-men. They were always one of my favourite level 1s, and it was sad not seeing them in Heroes IV or V. So now its time to buff them up and unleash them...
Suggested abilities: Unlimited retaliations?

Tier 4 - Orc Captain/Orc Chieftain
Dwelling: Officer's Quarters
Reason: Large hordes need multiple officers, and so I've brought in some higher-ranking muscle to give the Orcs some hitting power. And since they're officers, they can be cavalry (wolves of course).
Suggested abilities: Spellbook with leadership-orientated powers / cavalry

Tier 5 - Ogre/Ogre Magi
Dwelling: Ogre Fort
Reason: Where would Orcs be without Ogres? You can't have a barbarian horde without brutes with clubs. There's also another advantage: Ogres make perfect taskmasters, so those Dwarves won't find it easy to revolt...
Suggested abilities: No spellbook, but can cast the ever-faithful Bloodlust on friendly troops.

Tier 6 - Roc Windrider/Roc Stormcaller
Dwelling: Cliff Nest
Reason: A flying unit is desperately needed, and the Rocs seem to fit in fine. To add a bit of flair and to justify the tier increase, an Orcish spellcaster would make a good rider.
Suggested abilities: Flying / spellbook with destructive magic.

Tier 7 - Giant/Giant Warlord
Dwelling: Giant's Gate
Reason: Of course, this is interchangeable with Behemoth suggestion; but it rounds off the list with a nice big creature that goes well with barbarian hordes.
Suggested abilities: Literally crushing enemies underfoot.




I'll write more in the reasoning sections and add the suggested abilities sections when I've got time...

Very nice idea, but with only one flier and no shooters I don't think this town will do very well in sieges.

[Orfinn]

Centaurs at level 2 or 3 as shooters or spear throwers would be very nice as ranged units for the barbs.

[ClownRoyal]

Centaurs at level 2 or 3 as shooters or spear throwers would be very nice as ranged units for the barbs.

That would be a good idea if shooters were introduced. Like I said above, I think a no-shooter faction might be interesting.

Very nice idea, but with only one flier and no shooters I don't think this town will do very well in sieges.

It would make sieges more difficult for them, but that could be remedied by taking War Machines and catapult, maybe a hero ability for increased Catapult accuracy/power, or even a hero ability for directly damaging castle walls.

There are several ways they could allow a no-shooter army to be competitive in sieges. Granted it wouldn't be as easy, but you could always recruit neutrals (hopefully they'll introduce more neutrals with the Barbarian faction), or other town units.