Do you miss stronghold?

[dixing]

hell yeah the stronghold should be back... its the obvious thing to do, the whole game is based around might and magic, well.... Stronghold IS might, and since academy IS magic and they are there its only fair to place their opposites as well

besides that they simply rock!

[DaemianLucifer]

they would probably do like in H#, with a limited magic guild onl going up to level 3. part of their faction skill might include the ability to learn level 3 spells, but restrict them from any higher spell level. they would also be restricted to "basic" of all magic schools.

I doubt that about the magic guild,since even the "might" factions have full guilds now.

[Gaidal Cain]

Having not-full magic in H3 sucked. Now heroes can have special skills that make up for it, but they'd have to be linked to their hometown in some way if they aren't going to be abused by hiring a hero from the tavern fay 1.

[soupnazii]

Having not-full magic in H3 sucked. Now heroes can have special skills that make up for it, but they'd have to be linked to their hometown in some way if they aren't going to be abused by hiring a hero from the tavern fay 1.

you mean something like that only knight heroes could upgrade units in have town?

[soupnazii]

they would probably do like in H#, with a limited magic guild onl going up to level 3. part of their faction skill might include the ability to learn level 3 spells, but restrict them from any higher spell level. they would also be restricted to "basic" of all magic schools.

I doubt that about the magic guild,since even the "might" factions have full guilds now.

first of all, i dont think there are any "might" factions yet. theres the Academy, which is magic, but none of the others seem completely might or magic oriented. and in H3 there was also only one town that got partial magic guild, and it was still balanced easily. i think that if they put their mind to it it could work great.

[ThunderTitan]

in H3 there was also only one town that got partial magic guild, and it was still balanced easily.

Huh?! The Castle only had 4 levels of Magic Guild, and both Stronghold and Fortress had only 3.

[soupnazii]

really? i never noticed that... i never play fortress anyway (the music really annoys me).... anyway, that could just as easily be balanced now though with racial skills...

[sylvanllewelyn]

A stronghold idea seems plausible, but one has to be careful how to manage it. One of the characteristics of a stronghold town is barbarism, or having less characteristics of civilization than the average kingdom or nation. The problem with that is who's standards do you use.

Especially in Ashan, where all the factions are both good and evil (I really like the idea the Haven specializes in light and dark magic), you can't take the easy "evil means less civilized" cop-out. Dark-elves are still in tribes and clans, but they could hardly be considered uncivilized at all. Humans might find orcs uncivilized, but to elves, they are both far less sophisticated than themselves.

The real question is: what creatures and what political system should characterise stronghold, and is not covered by the six existing factions?

[ThunderTitan]

The real question is: what creatures and what political system should characterise stronghold, and is not covered by the six existing factions?

Barbarians was a catch all term for those who's society didn't resemble the greek one. Not lacking a civilization.

The Golden Horde comes to mind. A sort of Nomadism would fit the Stronghold quite well, with buildings that don't appear to be build to really last more then a season or two.

[soupnazii]

A stronghold idea seems plausible, but one has to be careful how to manage it. One of the characteristics of a stronghold town is barbarism, or having less characteristics of civilization than the average kingdom or nation. The problem with that is who's standards do you use.

Especially in Ashan, where all the factions are both good and evil (I really like the idea the Haven specializes in light and dark magic), you can't take the easy "evil means less civilized" cop-out. Dark-elves are still in tribes and clans, but they could hardly be considered uncivilized at all. Humans might find orcs uncivilized, but to elves, they are both far less sophisticated than themselves.

The real question is: what creatures and what political system should characterise stronghold, and is not covered by the six existing factions?

who really cares? just take a couple of greenskins, a few wolves, some cyclops and behemoths, a barbarian or two, throw them in the middle of the Grand Canyon with a few straw huts and a stone fortress, and theres your stronghold!

[DaemianLucifer]

who really cares? just take a couple of greenskins, a few wolves, some cyclops and behemoths, a barbarian or two, throw them in the middle of the Grand Canyon with a few straw huts and a stone fortress, and theres your stronghold!

I care.And so does ubi/nival.Amazingly,the towns plauzability and consistence is one of the rare things they care about(although,why are dragons allied with elves is still a mystery to me).

[soupnazii]

dragons are allied with the dark elves because they made a dark paact with the shadow dragons, and they are allied with the wood elves because of the rule. and yes, the plausability of the towns and such is important, but not more important than the fact that they have to have a good town with good creatures. i mean, i dont think that they make a town in this order: come up with a story, then make a fitting race/town. i think its more like the other way around. let them worry about the different races and such involved in the town (please no more elves!) and what its going to look like and how it would be balanced, then they can worry about where it will be on the map and what its 1000 year history is going to be.

[-Shadow32-]

I think they should return.. not my favorite, I barely used them, but it's good for variety and some units were cool.. like Behemouth

[Metal Wolf]

Definately get those dudes back...The barbarian was my fav faction in HOMM II...However, I liked it a bit less in HOMM III (despite the cool addition of the roc/thunderbird) and even hated it in HOMM IV - all of its creatures in that title where plain ugly! But there is hope, after all, since HOMM V is based on HOMM III !

About the magic issue - The HOMM III solution works just fine here IMO - A mage guild with a max 3 levels, lower chances of acquiring wisdom and stuff like that (excuse me if something's wrong here - I dont have HOMM V yet some I'm not 100% proficient with its rules).

I would really like to see the wolf get his honour back, being a 3 level unit like in HOMM II (he got weaker and weaker in every Heroes title since). He can be some sort of a warg/dire wolf/dread wolf/WINTER WOLF (Baldur's Gate/Icewond Dale anyone?) to justify a third level position... (personally, I didnt like its goblin rider version)...
By NO MEANS should the harpy or centaur replace him!!! Like someone said before, there is some lack of animals in the game, so the wolf would be a really nice addition.

The cyclop could be a top tier walking melee unit (there is none in the game except the giant, which is an unupgraded version of a shooter so it doesnt really count).

The Behemoth is'nt charismatic enough - its just a big furry beast... it should be dropped IMO...

The Troll - Who could possibly like him in HOMM III-IV? He should definately come back, but as a reincarnation of his HOMM II version (tough shooter).

The Ogre - Yeah, some sort of an anti-minotaur (relatively low dmg and speed but vey high durability and the imosing looks of, again, HOMM II)
The other units are obvious I guess...

I also believe that I have a good argument about the return of the Stronghold - look, EVERY SINGLE CREATURE from the Sronghold (and the Stronghold appeared in every heroes title, including KIng's Bounty) is missing in HOMM V... none became a neutral unit... none were added to the lineup of another castle... they were just systematically "erased" from the game. It is hard to believe that Nival would abandon all of these cratures (some of which are a must in every fantasy-based game) just like that, unless they are planning on their mighty return!

p.s.
Those of you who are fancy of a Fortress town - In my opinion it aint gonna happen, since Every town in HOMM V is based on some race (dark elves, mages, demons etc...) so there cannot be a town based just on beasts/animals, and I think Nagas or Lizardsmen are'nt "charismatic" enough to be the "dominant race" of the Fortress.

[Ethric]

Definately get those dudes back...The barbarian was my fav faction in HOMM II...However, I liked it a bit less in HOMM III (despite the cool addition of the roc/thunderbird) and even hated it in HOMM IV - all of its creatures in that title where plain ugly! But there is hope, after all, since HOMM V is based on HOMM III !

It is? Sooo... where's the stronghold, that is there in H3?

Those of you who are fancy of a Fortress town - In my opinion it aint gonna happen, since Every town in HOMM V is based on some race (dark elves, mages, demons etc...)

Academy isn't based on a race. There's 7 creatures, all of different race\type. Mage is a vocation, not a race.

So if you can have one mishmash town, you can have another.

[DaemianLucifer]

Academy isn't based on a race. There's 7 creatures, all of different race\type. Mage is a vocation, not a race.

Necropolis cannot be called a race either.Although,most of those creatures were humans,so...

So if you can have one mishmash town, you can have another.

Academy isnt a mishmash town,its unified by magic.Mages are the true masters behind this town,and all others are just their slaves/automatons.

[Metal Wolf]

Definately get those dudes back...The barbarian was my fav faction in HOMM II...However, I liked it a bit less in HOMM III (despite the cool addition of the roc/thunderbird) and even hated it in HOMM IV - all of its creatures in that title where plain ugly! But there is hope, after all, since HOMM V is based on HOMM III !


It is? Sooo... where's the stronghold, that is there in H3?
wink

That's why I'm counting on it at the expansion pack! And yeah, sure its not a clone of H3 but its based on it (same magic system, same town hierarchy, large similarities in the Hero development)

Those of you who are fancy of a Fortress town - In my opinion it aint gonna happen, since Every town in HOMM V is based on some race (dark elves, mages, demons etc...)


Academy isn't based on a race. There's 7 creatures, all of different race\type. Mage is a vocation, not a race.

So if you can have one mishmash town, you can have another.

You're right to some extent but still there is a connection between the mages and every other creature in the academy (it just much less intense than in other towns) - every creature in the acadamy was either built by the mages, or is serving them... In my opinion Nival tried to create a "dominant race" for every fction (I even think that they said that somewhere) but they simply couldnt make other roles for the mages except a spellcaster unit since, well, they're mages! They can't be fighters, flyers (riding a flying unit still makes one a figher) or something else... and besides, a faction/castle can not consist of a bunch of animals, it just doesnt make sense (no matter how much one is fond of the gorgon )!

[innokenti]

For fortress it could be the beastmasters of the swamps! Training the creatures for their own, unfathomable purpose. Etc etc.

Right about stronghold though - it's absence is very very obvious which gives one some hope.

[ThunderTitan]

The barbarian was my fav faction in HOMM II...However, I liked it a bit less in HOMM III (despite the cool addition of the roc/thunderbird) and even hated it in HOMM IV - all of its creatures in that title where plain ugly!

IMHO the Berserker looked cool. The Centaurs mohawk was interesting, and I loved the return of the pig-orc from H2. But yeah, the rest weren't very good looking.

[Ethric]

Academy isnt a mishmash town,its unified by magic.Mages are the true masters behind this town,and all others are just their slaves/automatons.

Mishmash as in there's no hard connection between the creatures. Sure, they all serve the mages, but that goes without saying in any town, that the creatures serve the heroes.

So you can have a fortress town the same way. Have gnolls or lizards or whatnot as heroes and angle the creatures saying they all serve them and they're unified in their swampyness or outcastedness or seclusiveness or something like that.

Afterall, the only reason the creatures in the academy are unified by magic is because the developers of this and previous games have made it so.