Project:
Create a strategy game with the following properties:
- Map control is the key of the game.
- Luck having the less significance possible, and at the same time avoid as much as possible the possibility to mathematically plan the game.
- Early and intensive interaction between human players.
- A balanced game, but still a varied game with several REAL options and that provide great amount of different possible starting positions.
- As less physical skill needed as possible.
- A game that can be played over network, with latency being as less significant as possible.
As much as I looked for, I never got any game to convince me it has what I want, I mean what I named. Chess and go where the obvious nearest games but I started to get boring because the games became monotone to me since it has always the same starting position. RTS always required too much physical skill and playing over network was a real problem because latency was a big problem to my taste. Most TBS don’t have half of what I named.
So I decided to use the Heroes 3 structure + WOG ERM TOOLS, to create such a game myself. That doesn’t mean to actually create a new game, but to modify heroes 3 such it ends like that game. I started to think about this project like one year ago, but the announcement that heroes V would come make me not do it until I know more. A Few weeks ago got to the conclusion heroes V won’t provide me what I need. So I started to get information about my plan. How powerful the ERM tools where, and if really the heroes 3 structure can be modify to accomplish my objectives so I started to look at scripts, do questions here and do some small scripts myself, I was also playing modified maps and testing with friends playing a lot of heroes with maps and rules that I thought could work. In the end I got to the conclusion Is possible but I need to do a lot of scripts. So I was doubtful if starting with this project.
But today I got to the conclusion I want to start this project.
To continue with this thread I will do one faq about the project and thenwhat changes will are done in heroes 3 now, and finally what scripts I need to do for the future.
I want to know that at this right moment you can’t get the files from anywhere, I’m working on it to make them downloadable somewhere. My first download will have a map, the six scripts, Sptraits.txt modified, An XLS with all the changes and some information on the spells that come on the mage guild
The project:
1) Why making your project public? :
I’m making my project public because there could be someone there that gets interested in my project. If he is he can test it, help me with the scripts or just play it. Even if get 1 more player to play with, making it public it’s justified. Still I’m not making the project because I expect any people to get interested on it, I have people to play with, and that’s enough, but If I get even more people in, that’s just even better.
2) It’s not a little pointless of doing your project when heroes 5 is on the door?
While my project will be a modified version of heroes, it won’t play like heroes 5, you can be sure of that. There can be players like me that isn’t looking for more “new” things, but things that suit it’s own needs, heroes 5 does not suit my needs, my project will, there can be others like me. Because I know several people that think already like that, and there is people that are already interested in my project, those are the people I will be playing the game with for now.
3) What your project is not?
My project doesn’t prioritize about adding “new stuff” or “more stuff” but accomplish the listed objectives.
My project isn’t a better heroes, but a different heroes.
My project doesn’t prioritize “cool” stuff but useful stuff.
I’m not interested in Human vs AI games, only human vs human.
4) Suppose I get interested, how will I know you won’t cancel it? :
You can’t, but I’m a person that once it starts something doesn’t do things by half, the only not extreme thing that can happen that make me cancel this project would be I find a game that is what I expect to create with heroes, that provide better tools, etc, in wich case I will make public and you will have that game to play (if you buy it of course
). Note that I don’t expect it to happen since no game in my life has ever come close. Of course if something extreme happen I will cancel the project (I die, I get blind, you know, that stuff)5) Do you expect many people to get interested in your project?
The answer is a BIG no; in fact I will be happy if at least one does it. I will publicly this project in other forums not only the wog one, still I’m just trying , I think it’s very hard something to be interested. But if only one gets really interested then I’m more than satisfied.
6) With who will I play your project with if you don’t expect it to get many people?
Well in first place I assume that if somebody gets interested it has friends that can get interested too and I expect you to play/test with them, still you can ask me for my msn and my friends ones and see if we can arrange some games.
CHANGES:
There is all the information I have now that I think will improve the game, it can change in the future.
First actual state of things, I take as base for changes the Tournament edition from Horn. I started from there, it has some nice scripts and changes and I recommend you to try it by yourself if you didn’t yet. If I didn’t change something It means I left it like it is in the tournament edition, not in standard WOG.
1)How maps should be for this project.
1.1)Maps
First of all the maps should be prepared according, everything else lacks of sense if the map aren’t rights. It means that the first change is that maps will be build very different for what’s known. I have built several maps but have deleted them; right now I have only one map that accomplishes what I meant. Here are the maps needs, I don’t have only a single map because I don’t know how to build more according but because I started the project little time ago and building and testing a map requires a LOT of time.
a) Map should enforce players to meet first week. And not in the “scouting” way but with brute force, that means the map should provide hot points where both players can access very early in the week. There should be several hot points, so if one player loses some hot points can still fight the others to regain advantage. Hot points should be of unlimited resource (mines and towns mostly) so they remain hot along the game.
b) Maps should have little to no artifacts. (still can have black markets) Artifacts allow concentrating a lot of power in one single hero, allowing one player to build a too powerful hero that can only be stopped by another too powerful hero, still maps should provide ways to improve hero, but those should be allowed to every hero (learning stones, trees from knowledge, arenas, etc). Still artifacts can be used as VERY hot points to break the game, for example if player has getting a huge advantage over the other player and one wants that the player can finish the game fast, giving access to a very powerful army to very powerful artifacts can work
c) Map should be build to nullify build orders at all cost, and provide lots of options since the start, so is a good idea to provide both players with several towns, heroes, and Resources, right from the start.
d) Map should be balanced to each side and each faction.
e) Map should provide ways to create shroud so to keep the game of incomplete information.
2) Things available:
2.1) Factions:
Right now only 3 factions are playable: CASTLE, RAMPART and FORTRESS
I have the intention of adding the nine heroes 3 factions.
2.2) Heroes:
Right now only 36 heroes are available, 12 heroes of each faction, 6 Might heroes , 6 Magic heroes.
I’ve made an Heroes edited.XLS where you can see the heroes available and the changes made.
The most important change is that I substracted one primary skill of every might hero.
I have the intention to have 16 heroes per faction in the future.
Heroes are edited to bring less creatures when you buy them.
2.3) Spells
I’ve modified Spells intensivly and only a few are available right now. The list of them and the changes are in the XLS file. I’ve intention of having almost every spell available in the future.
2.4) Only a few secondary skills are available now.
I have intention of adding almost all of them, The list of them is on the XLS
3)Scripts :
I’ve made 6 scripts right now
1. Movement script, now every hero has a base movement no matter it’s creature, I’m in the way to find the right number right now I’m trying with 1700
2. Anti chaining script: Right now I’ve made the anti chaining script you can find in the thread to prevent chaining.
3. Show power script: I’ve a script that with ctrl+left click show the power of one hero in gold so you can comprare the power in gold from your heroes with the opponents hero you can see, the opponent heroes power is displayed in a range from what you know (few, pack , lots, etc)
4. I’ve made a script that change every tree of knowledge on the map and make it so it ask always for 2000 gold
5. I’ve made a script that let you give one player some zones of the map revelaled right from the start.
6. I’ve made a script that modify creatures on the map, reduce speed and damage by X% and multiply the resources that creatures cost by Y
SCRIPTS I NEED TO DO:
The following are the list of scripts I need to do.
1) I need to make EVERY spell in the game spell power matter, I have the ideas but doing is something different.
The first problems came on the fact that they would be battle scripts and I don’t know how to do them yet to work over network.
Second, actually do it is something different, I would need a trigger that works when a spells go on or wears off.
Since I don’t have such a trigger I have to use the only trigger that seems to work, every time something takes an action. It seems very complicated and I don’t hope to do it anytime soon, but I really want it.
Priority: HIGH.
2) I need a script that make you choose what spells you get on the mage guild.
One option would be to make mague guilds work like black markets, but right now my idea would be to have 4 towers, Water fire, air and earth, and when you build the mage guild you can choose one of them, and you will get a mage guild full of those spells.
Priority: MEDIUM
3) I Need a script that make terrain change terrain bonuses and movement reduction
Priority: LOW
4) I need a script that forces battles between heroes to be normal and battles vs creatures to be quick, and let you choose if you want to spend spell points or not
Priority: VERY HIGH
5) I need Some way to protect savegames
Priority: LOW
6)Give Units abilites and make abilites like the unicorn blind to work not on chance but activated maybe with some slight changes
Priority: MEDIUM
7) Nullify the effect moral and luck has now an replace it with something else ( I didn’t think yet what that something else will be, suggestions welcome)
Priority: LOW
Those are the scripts I think I will need for now but I will add some other scripts, change priorityes and remove some when I’ve finised them. Or someone make them.
if you don't know what discreete math or discreete structure is -- you can ask me to explain it for you, or you could just consult wikipedia...