Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v4.0 open beta

[raekuul]

I'm pretty sure this was reported already but adding MMExt v2.2 to the install crashes with the below:

Code: Select all

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
...ntal with MMExt\Scripts\Structs\After\ElementalFixes.lua:41: attempt to index global 'DataTables' (a nil value)

stack traceback:
	...ntal with MMExt\Scripts\Structs\After\ElementalFixes.lua:41: in function 'dofile'
	Scripts\Core\main.lua:484: in main chunk

local variables of 'dofile':
	name = "Data/elemental.delete.txt"
	list = ("file (closed)")
	(*temporary) = nil
	(*temporary) = "Data/elemental.delete.txt"
	(*temporary) = true
	(*temporary) = nil
	(*temporary) = nil
	(*temporary) = "DataFiles/dsft.bin"
	(*temporary) = "attempt to index global 'DataTables' (a nil value)"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

Additionally, elemental.delete.txt appears to delete itself when this happens. This crash does not happen when using the lastest code from github, but elemental.delete.txt still self-deletes so users won't be able to update MMExt.

[Tomsod]

Oh, that's interesting! It crashes on 2.2 compatibility code specifically, and I think what happens is the scripts in Structs/After aren't run in alphabetical order for you, which I assumed they would (DataTablesSupport.lua which defines DataTables is just before my script), but apparently this is not actually guaranteed (works for me, though!) I guess I need more ugly hacks to make sure it works properly even without this assumption.

elemental.delete.txt is supposed to delete itself; there's no need to delete anything (else) after the mod is already installed, in fact all the deleted files are only (incorrectly) generated if the game is ever run with MMExt but without the mod.

[raekuul]

what's funny is I stumbled onto the solution for room 2 by accident exactly because of the facet limit errors

Spoiler

- I was trying to use thrown items to see where the disappearing things were. Took me a bit to make the connection once I had everything visible. I don't believe there are any puzzles in retail 6-8 that use that mechanic? so it needs an antepiece somewhere before the trumpet quest but there isn't a good place to put one.

[Lone_Wolf]

My party now has probatory access and it's tempting to use it for finishing the arcomage quest , getting high level items, gm alchemy (assasssin) etc.

I thought about it, figured out a simple quest that gives a dark token

Spoiler

kill the griffins

Unfortunately that quest is one I refuse to do even on DP .(It just feels wrong to kill peaceful monsters)

How do I avoid getting the probatory access options after giving trumpet to arbiter ?
Should i stay away from castle H until the arbiter dies ?

[raekuul]

My understanding is that you get twilight time if you have enough time between completing the trumpet quest and the arbiter's regularly scheduled appointment with the great beyond.

Spoiler

You can also just complete the altar pieces quest for your chosen side, that'll end the probatory period immediately. And also give you another apprenticing token.

in any case the fastest way to get out of that space of time is to just... go train. If you've been saving up experience points you'll blow through it pretty quickly.

Re Altar of Wishes, Room 3

I think I understand what you're asking me to do, but as these are all ranged flyers (and therefore insist on staying at range), Air Elementals don't leave behind corpses, and MM7 doesn't have Turn to Stone (or any reliable way to reposition ranged flyers - Stun would work if they would stay still long enough for me to cast it twice) I'm at quite a loss as to how I'm supposed to do it. And honestly I'm surprised that the Party itself is insufficient - you can easily get up there with a Jump spell, which a Warrior Mage should have.

[Tomsod]

If you don't want to have cross-promotions (or enemy guild membership) at all, you can ally with one king and immediately refuse the other, with even some minor benefits for loyalty. Another option is to fail one of the human-elf war quests, but then you'd have to wait. On that topic, training is always 8 days now, so it'd only kill enough time if you purposefully do it one level per visit.

altar of wishes

Stun is almost certainly required for room 3, along with another spell, and in fact wands of both can be looted in the locked side-rooms of room 2. Tell me if it's still too hard (there was some feedback about that).

Meanwhile, room 2's hint is obtained by casting wizard eye (there's even a scroll in a drawer in room 1): you can see on the minimap that there's already an item inside the vase with an open niche. Overall, all three puzzles employ an unutilized vanilla mechanic of surfaces triggering script events on contact with monsters or objects. In fact, room 1 puzzle squares can be triggered with thrown items and room 2, sparks, because they're both objects, but I guess this is a bit subtle for an introduction?

Fluff-wise, room 3 puzzle is not supposed to be triggered by the party itself because something needs to hold down the other cup while you loot the chest. It doesn't actually work like that, because the engine can't detect entities coming off surfaces, but that's the idea.

[raekuul]

Again, I can see the what, I just can't see the how (I am able to cast both spells naturally because mixed party, the problem is getting them in position in the first place)

Altar of Wishes stuff

And the party standing on the scales should at least provide motion, to help indicate what is wanted - you can't hit the chest with TK from the other end anyway so it's not a full solution - since four dwarves is still heavier than one paralyzed air elemental. Granted, it's less important to telegraph this since you do have the petrified fire elemental on the other set of scales, but it would Make Sense that the puzzle scales react to the party standing on them.

Also, just as a little flavor thing, I'm not sure if I'm displeased or relieved that casting Dispel Magic towards the petrified Fire Elemental doesn't free it from its stony prison, but as MM7 doesn't actually have monster petrification I can only just conclude that it's a well-crafted statue.

Regarding the combat difficulty: the first room feels overloaded (and you can trigger a failure on the puzzle of room 1 by accident while clearing the room out - happened to me, but because mixed party I still was able to use Reanimate to fix it - so maybe require pushing the button to "start" the puzzle instead?), the rest of the rooms are about equal to the AvLee Temple of Baa so it feels right for level 30ish on the whole. Combat for the second room onward are made easier because of the alcoves for room 2 - you can isolate them a lot easier which means you can fight more manageable clumps of monsters (which is very important for a melee-heavy team).

[Tomsod]

room 3

Yeah, at this point I'm pretty sure we've made room 3 too hard. The cup needs to be larger, for one. Try turn-based mode to prevent monsters from moving too much, it worked for me.

The cup reacting to party would make sense, but it's just infeasible to implement properly without reworking the engine, and since this map also goes into Kaltenberg's mod, I'm trying to keep it as vanilla (mechanically speaking) as possible.

Stray projectiles messing up room 1 puzzle are intentional; some adjusted positions are still winnable, and anyway there's a temple nearby. As for its monster density, have you tried hiding in the side-rooms? Pathfinding is still dumb, so they won't swarm you all at once this way. But yeah, I might remove a spawn point or two, since having such a greeting party feels intimidating.