What happened after the Kreegan Invasion?

[XEL II]

The bio isn't necessarily salient in comparison; you know as well as I do that Terry Ray probably didn't play MM8.

But it's still part of MM canon. Otherwise, we can consider Heroes Chonicles non-canon.

Hexx's bio, coupling with Gauldoth's statement (which can be interpreted as Kreegans fleeing to the Fiery Realm after Reckoning), suggests that the survivng Kreegans fled Enroth when the Reckoning happenend. It doesn't kill MM, since Escaton may not have known about an extremely small amount of surviving Kreegans.

[XEL II]

And if we assume that CotD was after Mutare's AB campaign as suggested by Adrienne's age and Playing With Fire statement, how do we explain the presense of Kreegans guarding the Vial of Dragon's Blood in Map 2?

[Corlagon]

Escaton may not have known about an extremely small amount of surviving Kreegans

...and that's precisely where you're stepping into the territory of fanfiction. I'm sure you realise this yourself.
Look, I write articles for the MM wiki. What am I supposed to put in the article on the Kreegans when I cover their history?
Slayer, and now you, might suggest something like this:

"Judging from Catherine Ironfist and Escaton's statements in Might and Magic VIII, the Kreegans were eliminated "last year" (before 1172 AS). However, these were later totally invalidated when it was mentioned in a bio from Heroes IV that the Kreegan Empire crumbled after the Reckoning. Hexx's biography also mentions that demons abandoned the practice of necromancy following the Reckoning, which is ironclad evidence that they were on Enroth at the time of Heroes IV - therefore rendering Escaton either mistaken or a complete liar."

But I would much rather write a less radically-assertive account:

"In Might and Magic VIII (which occurs in 1172 AS), Escaton clarifies that the Kreegans are exterminated and no longer present on Enroth; however, not until Heroes IV is it mentioned by Gauldoth that a few of their number secretly fled Enroth for the safety of the Fiery Realm. This explains the presence of Kreegan heroes such as Calh and Ash in Heroes IV, despite their race's apparent decimation by Erathia and the Ironfists during the events of Armageddon's Blade. Some Heroes IV texts also imply that the Kreegan Empire maintained a continued presence on Enroth even after Escaton's demise."

I refuse to buy into the idea that Escaton was falsely informed in MM8, because that's just crossing the line.

And if we assume that CotD was after AB

We do no such thing

[XEL II]

He wasn't falsely informed. Yes, the Kreegans are decimated and are no longer have any significant numbers on Enroth, there are barely tens of them. Escaton may not have bothered counting every exact Kreegan or scouring every santimeter of Enroth's surface in search for Kreegans. It's no big deal.

We do no such thing

You have AB-SO-LU-TE-LY no freaking single scrap of evidence that CotD was before RoE. And there are at least two facts to suggest that it was after AB:
First, Adrienne was studiying Fire Magic in Eeofol for two years since she was 15 and when she returned to Tatalia the event of RoE have already begun, so she couldn't be present in CotD nor have the relation ship with Tarnum i nthe past (she would be too young for that).
Second and most important, in Tavern rumors in Map 2 of Playing With Fire Campaign it's clearly stated that "the young Dungeon Overlord aspires to be the Queen". Note that it is given in present tense, while the statement about Christian's campaign is in past tense.

Yes, King of Erathia is indeed mentioned in CotD. This could be Morgan Kendal or some other guy he chose to be King. Sir Kentain was talking about the rulers, of Erathia, not members of the Gryphonheart dynasty, he outlived. Catherine wasn't ruler by the time of Reckoning.

Lastly, if we do assume that CotD was after AB, how do we explain the Kreean presense in Map 2?

[Corlagon]

Ah, whatever you say, XEL...

[XEL II]

Not that I wish to be obsessive, but you didn't answer my question

[tolich]

And if we assume that CotD was after AB

We do no such thing

Probably, `We do know such thing`?

[Tress]

I refuse to buy into the idea that Escaton was falsely informed in MM8, because that's just crossing the line.

Considering large ammount of inferno heroes in homm4 I can only assume that at least some cells of Kreegans survived. Perhaps small enough for Estacon to not consider them any threat and with no means to reproduce rapidly. After all Estacon is meant to destroy planets that are infested with Kreegans rather than handful of them, beside I cant accept that it is possible to exterminate 100% of any sentient race, specially in fantasy setting. They can destroy all hives, towns, bases, temples, but they cant catch every last one of them. There will always be some cave where some Kreegan is hiding.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

Ice Demons were brought into Necross from the Fiery Realm and in Calh's bio it is said that he was one of the first Kreegans to slip into Axeoth. Gauldoth says that portal is temporary.

How can the Kreegan Empire crumble AFTER the Reckoning if there is no significant number of Kreegans in Axeoth?

There are Kreegans in Axeoth by the time of the third map of Half-Dead campaign.

It doesn't say that Ice Demons came from the Fiery Realm anywhere that I am anywhere of. It doesn't even make any logical sense (Ice Demons and Fire, not likely).

There is 0% evidence of any migration from the Fiery Realm. And if the portal is temporery like Gauldoth theorizes (he doesn't state that it is when he actually creates it) the portal will be, there can't be any such migration anyway.

Your argument is self-contradictory, the portal cannot be temporary and the Kreegans migrate from the Fiery Realm.

There are Kreegans in Axeoth from the start of the very first LIFE Campaign, when Lysander gets a quest to destroy the Venom Spawn infesting a region of Palaedra.

It's clear that there's no way in hell (pun intended) that that's the case. Slayer is actually right here: Eeofol, etc. can't have perished after the Reckoning. An empire of Kreegans can't die if there aren't any on the planet. So either it's not referring to that empire, or it's an oversight. No need to confuse the situation further by saying some of them survived until after 1172 - that destroys MM8.

It's reasonably plausible that the "Kreegan Empire" mentioned here is talking about the Kreegans' followers - fragments of the Cult of Baa, the Humanists, etc.

Why does it destroy Might and Magic VIII? You can't destroy what been destroyed already. The entire CRUSHING weight of Might and Magic lore proves that the Might and Magic people are mistaken at least in the sense of the long term.

Actually, what ARE Kreegans doing practising necromancy?.. They weren't associated with it at all in HoMM3 and MMs.

Also, they could have fled not only to the Fiery Realm, but also to Planes, mostly the Plane of Fire (since they have Efreet allies, they must have got there at some point anyway).

Because the Kreegan faction merged with the Necromancer faction shortly before the Reckoning judging from Hexx's bio.

This relationship continues into Heroes IV.

Yes it does, that's exactly what it means by definition... Either they're exterminated - all dead and gone - or they're not. They can't be "a bit exterminated" in much the same way that one can't be a "little pregnant" or "kind of dead". If you're saying any of them are still traipsing around on the surface of Enroth after the Night of the Crystal, you're saying Escaton is incorrect by extension.
The bio isn't necessarily salient in comparison; you know as well as I do that Terry Ray probably didn't play MM8.

There is a third option Corlagon and you know that.

At the time of Might and Magic VIII they retreated temporarily to the Fiery Realm (or somewhere else) in order to get away from Escaton, so in the present everyone is completely right, the Kreegans are eliminated from Enroth, except that they left in place the means for their swift return.

It's just they came back to Enroth-continent shortly before the Reckoning as confirmed by Might and Magic XI (but any case they certainly returned).

And probably allied with the Necromancers there, in what was supposed to be a 'Cult of Baa' relationship, except it went the wrong way around after the Reckoning and they ended up under the Necromancer boot-heel.

"In Might and Magic VIII (which occurs in 1172 AS), Escaton clarifies that the Kreegans are exterminated and no longer present on Enroth; however, not until Heroes IV is it mentioned by Gauldoth that a few of their number secretly fled Enroth for the safety of the Fiery Realm. This explains the presence of Kreegan heroes such as Calh and Ash in Heroes IV, despite their race's apparent decimation by Erathia and the Ironfists during the events of Armageddon's Blade. Some Heroes IV texts also imply that the Kreegan Empire maintained a continued presence on Enroth even after Escaton's demise."

I refuse to buy into the idea that Escaton was falsely informed in MM8, because that's just crossing the line.

If the Kreegans can leave for the Fiery Realm in considerable numbers at the Reckoning, which they had no recollection of; just think of what they could have done had they actually had months to plan their retreat?

Escaton and Catherine are completely right (and tress is wrong), there were indeed no Kreegans in the entire world at the time of Might and Magic VIII. They were wrong only in assuming that they had exterminated the Kreegans, when in fact they had simply fled Enroth for another world/plane (the Fiery Realm).

They fled to either avoid extermination at the hands of Catherine, or to avoid Escaton (or both perhaps).

The superiority of my explanation is that is also explains another mystery, why is it that Escaton, who is a sentient being was not allowed to end the Convergance? Do the Ancients want to destroy their own worlds for no reason?

The reason is that just because the Kreegans appear to have been wiped out, does not mean that they are actually gone. You could have scoured the whole of Enroth and found no sign whatsoever of the Kreegans at the Might and Magic VIII.

But while Escaton is equipped with the ability to detect the presence of the Kreegans on a world, it is not possible for him to detect whether or not the Kreegans have a means of returning, because that is on/in the Fiery Realm.

[XEL II]

The portal existed long enough for Gauldoth to go to the Fiery Realm, find Calibarr there and go back. "Temporary" simply means that it's not permanent and will disappear in time, it isn't stated anywhere how long it existed. Plus, it is stated in Calh's bio that Kreegans traveled to Axeoth with him being one of the first to do so. Ice Demons joined Necross after Map 2 of Half-Dead campaign in which the portal was opened.

Why does it destroy Might and Magic VIII? You can't destroy what been destroyed already. The entire CRUSHING weight of Might and Magic lore proves that the Might and Magic people are mistaken at least in the sense of the long term.

That is so for you. In reality, MM lore has pretty strong continuty and connection between games' storylines and plot elemnts with only few minor mistakes, most of which are from Heroes Chronicles onward, when storylines were no longer written by JVC.

Because the Kreegan faction merged with the Necromancer faction shortly before the Reckoning judging from Hexx's bio.

It isn't said anywhere in Hexx's bio that Kreegan merged with Necromancer faction, it just states that Kreegans stopped using Necromancy after the Reckoning. Your theory about Kreegans retreating to Fiery Realm and then returning to Enroth is COMPLETELY made up and has no canonical evidence to be backed with. Nicolai's just assuming that Kreegans took Castle Ironfist, while in reality it was the Reckoning.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

The portal existed long enough for Gauldoth to go to the Fiery Realm, find Calibarr there and go back. "Temporary" simply means that it's not permanent and will disappear in time, it isn't stated anywhere how long it existed. Plus, it is stated in Calh's bio that Kreegans traveled to Axeoth with him being one of the first to do so. Ice Demons joined Necross after Map 2 of Half-Dead campaign in which the portal was opened.

A group of Ice Demons joined Nekross and took up work keeping the corpses cool. This we know.

Ice Demons however were already present in the world before then as is clear from the games.

Venom Spawn are not only present in the game but appear as part of a quest as part of the first Life mission.

That is so for you. In reality, MM lore has pretty strong continuty and connection between games' storylines and plot elemnts with only few minor mistakes, most of which are from Heroes Chronicles onward, when storylines were no longer written by JVC.

And?

It isn't said anywhere in Hexx's bio that Kreegan merged with Necromancer faction, it just states that Kreegans stopped using Necromancy after the Reckoning. Your theory about Kreegans retreating to Fiery Realm and then returning to Enroth is COMPLETELY made up and has no canonical evidence to be backed with. Nicolai's just assuming that Kreegans took Castle Ironfist, while in reality it was the Reckoning.

It is clear from the games that the Kreegans merged with the Necromancer faction. It is clear from the fact that MANY of them stopped using Necromancy (Hexx's bio) that this merger happened in the era immediately before the Reckoning, as we know that in Heroes III they did not use Necromancy.

That Calh was one of the first demons to slip into the new world reffers I think to him making a choice between fleeing to the Fiery Realm and Axeoth and choose the latter. Anything else doesn't make sense, unless you want to invent an fictional invasion from the Fiery Realm that never happened and has the following problems.

1. The game which has Kreegan creatures present in Axeoth before Death Mission 2.

2. Has no mention in the game when it is sufficiently major that it couldn't avoid notice.


I wonder if you are capable of actually listening XEL II. I know that Nicolai is only assuming the Kreegans took Castle Ironfist, but that he does ASSUME that, means at the very least that the Kreegans were a threat to Enroth at the time of the Reckoning.

Since we know from Might and Magic VIII that the Kreegans went away, we can deduce from their lack of presence in events on Antagarich (King Kilgor's invasion) that when they returned, they returned to Enroth.

It is canonically sourced that they were a threat to Enroth from Might and Magic XI.

[ThunderTitan]

A group of Ice Demons joined Nekross and took up work keeping the corpses cool. This we know.

Ice Demons however were already present in the world before then as is clear from the games.

Venom Spawn are not only present in the game but appear as part of a quest as part of the first Life mission.

And what makes you think two creatures not found outside of Axeoth, one of which is a summon even have to be kreegan instead of just native demon like creatures?!

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

And what makes you think two creatures not found outside of Axeoth, one of which is a summon even have to be kreegan instead of just native demon like creatures?!

Because they appear in the Fiery Realm which is a world fully under Kreegan dominion.

All the Kreegan creatures found in Axeoth appear in the Fiery Realm.

And all Kreegan creatures can be summoned up with spells temporarily in Heroes IV.

[XEL II]

Venom Spawn are not only present in the game but appear as part of a quest as part of the first Life mission.

I can't see why there couldn't have been Venom Spawns on Axeoth.

And?

...and you better not say such preposterous things about MM storyline.

It is clear from the games that the Kreegans merged with the Necromancer faction. It is clear from the fact that MANY of them stopped using Necromancy (Hexx's bio) that this merger happened in the era immediately before the Reckoning, as we know that in Heroes III they did not use Necromancy.

The fact that Kreegans stopped using Necromancy means only that they stopped using Necromancy, it is never stated that tey merged with Necromancer before the Reckoning, not in Hexx's bio, nowhere. And they could nicely use Necromancy in some degree during their invasion of Enroth (at the very least, Baa members used it).

That Calh was one of the first demons to slip into the new world reffers I think to him making a choice between fleeing to the Fiery Realm and Axeoth and choose the latter.

It says the the demons slipped into Axeoth and that Calh was one of the first. Not that they escaped or fled into it during the Reckoning, but that some demons arrived there and not simultaneously (since Calh was "one of the first to slip").

1. The game which has Kreegan creatures present in Axeoth before Death Mission 2.

Imps and Venom Spawns are not Kreegans and some number of them could have inhabited Axeoth (as we meet Imps in MM9, for example).

2. Has no mention in the game when it is sufficiently major that it couldn't avoid notice.

See above, I pointed out that it is stated that Kreegans slipped into Axeoth in Calh's io (while we know from Half-Dead campaign that in the Reckoning they fled into Fiery Realm).

It is canonically sourced that they were a threat to Enroth from Might and Magic XI.

WHERE? Show me the exact piece of text (not Nicolai assuming Castle Ironfist destuction in the Reckoning to be Kreegan attack) saying that the Kreegan were threat before the Reckoning.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

I can't see why there couldn't have been Venom Spawns on Axeoth.

Because Venom Spawns are a type of Demon/Kreegan and appear along with all the other Kreegan forms in the Fiery Realm.

There are not separate Kreegan creatures that only ever appear in Fiery Realm and nowhere else.

...and you better not say such preposterous things about MM storyline.

Such as? Who are you to absolutely define what is preposterous and what is not?

Whether the inconsistencies are down to different authors (which they largely are) does not subtract from the fact that the authors have no in-universe existence and the inconsistencies still need to be resolved.

The fact that Kreegans stopped using Necromancy means only that they stopped using Necromancy, it is never stated that tey merged with Necromancer before the Reckoning, not in Hexx's bio, nowhere. And they could nicely use Necromancy in some degree during their invasion of Enroth (at the very least, Baa members used it).

We know that the Kreegans have merged with the Necromancers in Heroes IV because they are THE EXACT SAME FACTION!

The only question is whether this merger happened before or after the Reckoning. From what Hexx's bio says about the matter, many of the Kreegans turned away from Necromancy after the Reckoning.

Given that there are no shortage of Kreegan Necromancers in Heroes IV and the Undead and Demons are one faction, it is clear that this a relative statement.

It says many, not most. Before the Reckoning they evidently practiced Necromancy to an EVEN GREATER DEGREE than they do in Heroes IV, which is saying something. Probably all the Kreegan heroes (like Calh) were Necromancers but those heroes (not Hexx) abandoned Necromancy.

It says the the demons slipped into Axeoth and that Calh was one of the first. Not that they escaped or fled into it during the Reckoning, but that some demons arrived there and not simultaneously (since Calh was "one of the first to slip").

It says slip because it is not likely that the inhabitants of Enroth-world were too happy on allowing Kreegans to escape in Axeoth.

You can also interpret it the way you say, except the problem is that the Kreegans can't have that ability or else they wouldn't have needed spaceships to arrive on Enroth-world in the first place. And did everyone leave Enroth or arrive in Axeoth simultaneously?

Earlier it refers to the "disastrous performance of the Kreegans in the years prior to the Reckoning being a sign of things to come and Calh being "quick to abandon a sinking ship".

He made some kind of a choice, about whether to go to the new world or to the Fiery Realm. And his discontent at the perceived incompetence of the Kreegan Empire (as a whole) led him to choose the former option, to abandon the sinking ship rather than go home *to* the Kreegan Empire in the form of the Fiery Realm.

Imps and Venom Spawns are not Kreegans and some number of them could have inhabited Axeoth (as we meet Imps in MM9, for example).

Show me one piece of evidence that Imps and Venom Spawns are not Kreegans? Nobody ever makes any distinction between them and Kreegans, thus you evidently pulled this whole thing completely out of thin air.

Yes Imps appear in Might and Magic XI, they fled there during the Reckoning.

See above, I pointed out that it is stated that Kreegans slipped into Axeoth in Calh's io (while we know from Half-Dead campaign that in the Reckoning they fled into Fiery Realm).

We also know they fled to the Fiery Realm AT the Reckoning from Half-Dead Campaign. They were believed to have perished IN the Reckoning, not BEFORE it.

WHERE? Show me the exact piece of text (not Nicolai assuming Castle Ironfist destuction in the Reckoning to be Kreegan attack) saying that the Kreegan were threat before the Reckoning.

Nicolai mentioning that he was discussing the Kreegan problem with his general before the destruction of Castle Ironfist which he falsely assumes to be their work. That is your another piece of text for you.



The Kreegans are directly and canonically stated to be a problem to Enroth's leaders immediately before the Reckoning.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

He then escapes his actual prison location and returns to Enroth, but without Queen Catherine who remains in Erathia.

You evidently don't remember Might and Magic VII very well. In it, your player party rescues Roland from his prison and you see a cutscene of him immediately reuniting with Catherine. That's why he is fighting alongside her in the Erathian forces throughout the entire Armageddon's Blade campaign, where he is present as a playable hero, a fact which you seem not to remember either. The campaign takes place not long after their MM7 reunion.

Also, Tim Lang, the developer of Might and Magic IX, confirmed that there was no Kreegan attack on Castle Ironfist and that was just Nicolai's assumption because he didn't know what was really causing the Reckoning and his being thrown into Axeoth. He screwed up with the contents of Roland's letter in relation to games written by other people, but we can trust him on his own intention never having been for there to have been a real Kreegan attack.

In Might and Magic VIII, gogs are present in the Plane of Fire alongside efreet, and also in the Ironsand Desert, where the portal to the Plane of Fire opened up. This, and the fact that Escaton says the Kreegans are gone in the same game, suggests that gogs are not Kreegans but just allies of them.

Your idea that Kreegans may have stolen their advanced technology from worlds they invaded after getting to them from the Fiery Realm (after being summoned by unwise sorcerers, say, like one of the Heroes developers - Terry Ray, I think - who also said the Fiery Realm was the parallel universe the Kreegans come from, said, though admittedly he seemed to know more about Heroes than the RPG games) is at least somewhat plausible and something I've wondered about myself.

Yes, but there you go, I gave you two pieces of text which do state that they did return to Enroth briefly, and do help clear up that supposed screwup in MM9's letter. Take it or leave it.

No. The remaining few Kreegans who survived H3 fled Enroth to the Fiery Realm after Armageddon's Blade, then when Gauldoth invaded the Fiery Realm he brought them back with him to Axeoth. So it's true to say that they were exterminated from Enroth, and yet a number of them did survive. They didn't get there through the Reckoning portals.

Corlagon is right about the Kreegans going to the Fiery Realm before the Reckoning is the most sensible explanation for why Escaton and the Ironfists considered them completely gone from Planet Enroth, regardless of what the exact words of certain Heroes IV hero bios may be or some demon units being available in gameplay before you retrieve the Kreegans in the storyline (and the "disorganized and weak" Kreegans were the same ones who went to the Fiery Realm), but wrong about there being a reunion between Nicolai and his parents before Armageddon's Blade. The text he's citing in fact says there wasn't. It says Nicolai has been alone apart from Humphrey since Catherine sailed to Erathia for the funeral and Roland was captured by the Kreegans. The confusion is because the lack of coordination between the Might and Magic RPG and Heroes teams means this timeframe should be years per one and months per the other. But getting lengths of time between events wrong is one of the most common types of mistake made in fiction because writers are often not good mathematicians or chronographers; I'm used to it.

and in-universe you can't just say "Tim Lang messed up"

Yes, we can.

To be semantically-minded about it, Nicolai would still be "left alone" (i.e. alone to rule Enroth) even if the Ironfists visited him, since they didn't re-assume the throne.

No, semantically that's impossible.

They don't actually say "he is alone in Enroth [...] and we haven't seen him since the Night of Shooting Stars..."

That is clearly the meaning.

Roland's bio doesn't really say he rejoined Nicolai. It was about Roland right after his release from Colony Zod, when he was going to reunity with his wife and son.

AB and MM8 clearly say Roland hasn't seen Nicolai since before his imprisonment.

It says he reunited with Catherine and Nicolai "for a brief reunion". It can't be about intention, because he wouldn't have intended their reunion to only be brief. The only brief reunion there could be would be the short time between Catherine and Roland returning from Jadame and the Reckoning, if they did.

Kind of remind me of Stargate Atlantis wraiths that uses bio and technology fusion.

Actually, the description in the legends of the Might and Magic spinoff games set on Ardon of the Ancients being much more powerful than the Kreegans individually and the latter only have any luck against them due to being much greater in number reminded me of the hologram of the Ancient named Melia's description of how the war between the Ancients and the Wraith went in the Stargate Atlantis pilot.

It's widely understood that the origin story of the Kreegans is contained in this passage from Might and Magic III (relevant part is bolded):

"The Ancients draw their power from the heat and light of stars to create intricated mechanism of society, then send these civilizations to cultivate developing worlds. The Creators exist in a nebulous realm where they construct their plots and create vile chaotic armies to disrupt the civilizations of the Ancients. Because of interference created by the renegade Guardian, Sheltem, the CRON and most of the VARNs carried by this vessel were lost in the Great Sea of Terra. This mission has been code named The Great Experiment. It extends further away from the seat of Ancients than any other colonization. It is under much greater threat from Creators. Spanning the farthest reaches of the universe, two super-developed societies, the Ancients and the Creators, are engaged in a galactic race for power."

"Vile chaotic armies [who] disrupt the civilizations of the Ancients" is a 100% accurate description of the Kreegans.

Jennifer Bullard's Acid Grotto interview casts doubt on this interpretation, though technically all she said was that the Kreegans and the Creators are not one and the same and "often had different goals".

The Fiery Realm is a planet, not a plane. You don't have anything that would prove otherwise.

Gauldoth identifying it as "the realm that gives a demon its power" suggests it's a plane, and since his theory about using the Angel Blade to open a portal to it works, there's really no reason to presume he's just being ignorant. And the Heroes III website story from Xanthor describing the Infernos made it clear they have summoning portals in them and called them "places of summoning and breeding". And if they can summon their efreeti and gog allies from the Plane of Fire, why not summon things from other dimensions as well?

But you're right that the volcano is there with the fort in Heroes III because the Kreegans like that kind of climate to live in. Slayer's suggestions that they themselves can't live in the conditions of the Fiery Realm are counterintuitive. They may well enhance their numbers by summoning reinforcements after landing, but Slayer is suggesting a much more extreme division between those groups of Kreegans than makes sense and a conspiracy theory-like "sleeper agent" status. Nor is there any evidence they take their forms based on the inhabitants of the worlds they enter, or that the Fiery Realm is sentient (could be, but there's no reason to think so). But there's also no evidence of more than the one Kreegan Queen you killed in Might and Magic VI on Planet Enroth, which might be why killing her was an important blow.

The Oracle indeed says it all - the Kreegans are more or less forced to do what they do if they want to survive. It's hard to moralize against the survival instinct (or whatever they have to serve its purpose).

Apart from what Escaton says about how the Kreegans could expand in a different direction from the Ancients if they wanted.

One of the Might and Magic developers (Tim Lang or Greg Fulton?) did suggest the Kreegans could be fleeing something even worse, when asked if something worse than the Kreegans existed.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

They can't eat lava can they?

Who says they can't?

Pretending there are no contradictions in fictional media like Corlagon said is not good either, though. There clearly are contradictions in Might and Magic (and when there appear to be contradictions in other fictional media, it's usually because there really are as well), in this case because the teams developing the branches of the series didn't always communicate as well as they should have. And some can't be resolved without just plain ignoring what a certain piece of text said or pretending it said something else. Otherwise you get overly elaborate theories.

It's simple enough. Logically the Kreegans must eat more or less the same things as other biological creatures or else their multiplication and expansion would be no threat to those other creatures.

Lava cannot be what they eat, because were that the case being immune to fire as they are they could just jump into the nearest volcano and swim around in the magma for all eternity.

You don't compete with biological lifeforms that eat normal stuff, if you don't eat that stuff. Different niche.

No, the problem with that logic about niches is that the Kreegans breed too much to be content with pre-existing sources of lava/sulfur/etc., so they pyraform all available space on the planet to become the kind of environment they like, replacing the "normal stuff".

If a form of creatures arrives that does not consume any of the same resources that I do, then it doesn't matter how much that creature multiplies or expands does it?

It does if the process of excavating those resources involves digging up the soil you live on top of, even if you're not using the resources beneath you yourself.

But it's established that they are trained by Kreegans.

But it doesn't say they're not a type of Kreegans. You could as easily have a blurb that says, "Hyacinth was responsible for training swordsmen and crusaders prior to the attack on Eeofol." and it wouldn't mean swordsmen and crusaders weren't humans, or that their rank only came into existence in order to be used for that attack. Not that I'm saying they necessarily *are* Kreegans, either, just that the language doesn't establish what they are.

There are certain contradictions in the descriptions in question, one being that Zydar, who is an Efreet according to the manual, "shows more promise than any of his demonkin" when it comes to spell casting. It could be just a note for his allegiance to Inferno though, not a non-deliberate mistake.

Greg Fulton said that efreet could be also considered "demonic" despite not being Kreegans, that the Kreegans are just "nationality" the term refers to.

Which means if you and Xenofex are right as to them being the only true Kreegans, then the Kreegans as such are no longer the major part of the Kreegans own army. Why were they were reduced to such a marginal and elite role in their own army?

The destruction of The Hive and de-population of Colony Zod thanks to your player characters in MM6 and MM7 provide an obvious possible answer to that. But even without factoring that in, it's not illogical for the brains of the operation (the Kreegans) to be an elite minority compared to the army they command (the non-Kreegan Inferno units, if all the non-devil units are in fact non-Kreegans). In such a framework, the generals are Kreegans (plus efreeti heroes) and the shock troops are demonic creatures summoned or bred by them. The hell hounds/cerberi, at least, are almost certainly pets of the Kreegans rather than a canine-looking caste of Kreegans themselves, and the Heroes IV Asylum nightmares may be the same species as the demonic steed Xeron has in Armageddon's Blade cutscenes.

There is a devil problem, or else he wouldn't be talking about it with his GENERAL before the Reckoning.

Of course, the irreconcilably nonsensical contents of Roland's letter (Roland did not go to Antagarich to deal with Armageddon's Blade, that crisis happened while he was already there) make discussing what happened around it murky from a standpoint of canon, but if Roland and Catherine did indeed never manage to sail back to Ironfist from Jadame before the Reckoning, it's conceivable Nicolai thought the Kreegans were still around on Enroth-the-planet because he hadn't gotten news from his parents of their extermination in Armageddon's Blade. Which would mean he was discussing the possibility of the Kreegans in Antagarich continuing to pose a threat to Enroth-the-continent, rather than discussing Kreegans who were already there. Their being a continent away and dead does not prevent Nicolai from falsely assuming they've returned to his continent and attacked the castle when the Reckoning happens. They are the only Big Bads he knows of, after all.

Assuming he actually had a general at that point. He's totally out of his mind, remember? Joining the Circus ring any bells about a guy who's reverted to childhood?

Whoah. How does a totally false assumption work out to be a partially true fact? Everything Nicolai says about the devils ending the world is an assumption, including the part about discussing them with his "general."

Per Tim Lang's conversation with XEL, Slayer is at least right that Nicolai is not crazy, just confused. So it's not reasonable to think his discussion with his general *before* the Reckoning was intended to be a figment of his imagination. He doesn't know the real reasons behind the events he remembers but his memories of them are intact.

And Escaton, I know he's wired to proceed with the destruction of Enroth even if no Kreegans remain, but that could just be because he's a robot, he's given a task and thus performs it. If he was intentionally not allowed to stop in the destruction of Enroth, then why wouldn't he have known the Kreegans could return and/or trick him into thinking they were gone?

Escaton tells you that he's unable to stop the Convocation after starting it because the Ancients feared the possibility of the Kreegans subverting him and making him stop the Convocation.

A) Escaton and the Ironfists were totally wrong in MM8, the Kreegans of MM6/7/H3 "faked their deaths" and were never really expunged from Enroth at all - contrary to canonical sources (MM8).

To be fair, all the Kreegans (and I do think it was all, not just some, and that they didn't return before the Reckoning) going to the Fiery Realm to escape Catherine and Roland after Armageddon's Blade can reasonably be called "faking their deaths", whether or not they did it because they sensed Escaton.

These visitors can't be Ancients, since they are described as monsters on the metal boat. Ancients are mentioned in this text as men fighting demons in the sky.

I see no contradiction in different sources calling the Ancients "men" and "monsters", depending on their point of view, especially as these sources are mentioned in the same text. Handing powerful weapons to future leaders sounds like something Ancients, or the rogue Ancients mentioned in your conversation with Tim Lang, would do.