Yet another discussion of the merits of H4

[ThunderTitan]

I agree with pepak at the foolest

It's fullest BTW...

[DaemianLucifer]

I agree with pepak at the foolest

It's fullest BTW...

I have no clue what youre talking about

[ThunderTitan]

I have no clue what youre talking about

All things considering I'm not surprised...

[Bandobras Took]

Were I live playing online is something very fresh,so most people that play HIV play it in sp.

That would explain a great deal of it. The response where I live was largely negative, and nobody was excited about the single player because the AI was doing nothing on original release.

*sigh*!Im not saying that HIV is the best game ever(starcraft is),but its not pure crap like most people say(and all of them played the game for just a few hours).Im saying that HIV is incredible because it managed to stay alive even though it has a lot of obvious flaws.Yet Im not sure if two sequels in a row can survive like this.HV has obvious flaws of its own(old graphics,no dweling flaging,large squares,....),but it doesnt seem like its as modable as HIV,so Im not sure how long it will last.

Oh, man . . . we don't even agree on the best game ever!

Your point is well taken. You're on the high end of H4 is a great game, while I'm on the low end.

However, if the map editor saves maps in anything like the format the demo released, then modding things in H5 will be as simple as WinRAR. We'll have to see.

[DaemianLucifer]

However, if the map editor saves maps in anything like the format the demo released, then modding things in H5 will be as simple as WinRAR. We'll have to see.

So well have a new WoG?Fine.If it brings in FoW,flagable windmills,and exitable combats,Ill consider saying that it is a great game instead of just average.

[HodgePodge]

I thought I would join in, but after reading the thread, I am not going to. I just don't feel like arguing with Mr. "Just because you like it doesn't make it a good game; lots of people hate it so it is obviously crap". If, by some miracle, this thread turns into a debate about facts rather than wild accusations between fanboys and nonplayers, let me know so I can return...

Sorry Pepak, I'm not a "fanboy" I'm a "fangirl". Anyhow, I'm one of those people who loves Heroes 4 … and yes, I have downloaded Equilibris and play exclusively with it in just about every game I play.

And for all of you who think that everyone hates Heroes 4, take a look at this poll:

Round Table Poll … Heroes III vs. Heroes IV

Obviously, many of us still love Heroes 4 in spite of its flaws … so stop dumping on our beloved Heroes 4. Heroes 5 would do well if it gains the same kind of fan loyalty & devotion which Heroes 4 enjoys.

[magritte2]

Quite surprised by those poll results, since there always seems to be so much negativity surrounding Heroes IV discussions. On the whole, I think Heroes IV's reception was based more on the poor initial release than the final game, though it suffered in part from the "be careful what you wish for, you may get it" syndrome.

There were things I liked about HOMM4:

1) The Hero skill system
2) Each town having a magic specialization (even if they were unbalanced)
3) The convenience of caravans and flagging water mills and wind mills (even if one can argue that there's not much reason for having them if they don't operate differently from mines)
4) Being able to move troops without a hero.

There were also things that were not so good:

1) The hero on the battlefield seemed like a good idea, but when combined with allowing multiple heroes in the same stack moved the game too far from its core gameplay. Who needs armies?
2) Not enough town structures.
3) Dull maps. Part of this was the A.I., but part of it was the proliferation of gates that started in HOMM3 but became insane in HOMM4. Whenever I've gone back and played HOMM2, I'm always amazed at how quickly the enemy heroes get in your face and it just made the early part of the game so much more interesting.

I guess it's because I never played multiplayer, but the balance issue never bothered me that much...I actually thought HOMM3 sacrificed too much of the uniqueness of the factions in the name of balance.

[magritte2]

Have to add: I hated the HOMM4 battlefield. It was just too difficult to figure out where units would be able to move in one turn, whether you would have line of sight for casting/shooting, etc. I didn't like the HOMM4 sieges much either.

[DaemianLucifer]

1) The hero on the battlefield seemed like a good idea, but when combined with allowing multiple heroes in the same stack moved the game too far from its core gameplay. Who needs armies?

This could easily been prevented by making heroes weaker,but allowing them to join a stack of monsters,thus making them his guardians.

2) Not enough town structures.

Yes,this was bad.But if economy was just a bit better(less resources)this wouldnt be a problem.

3) Dull maps. Part of this was the A.I., but part of it was the proliferation of gates that started in HOMM3 but became insane in HOMM4. Whenever I've gone back and played HOMM2, I'm always amazed at how quickly the enemy heroes get in your face and it just made the early part of the game so much more interesting.

This is where fan maps come in.But true,AI needs a lot of reapairs.

I guess it's because I never played multiplayer, but the balance issue never bothered me that much...I actually thought HOMM3 sacrificed too much of the uniqueness of the factions in the name of balance.

I agree.HIII started with the dumbification of heroes series,and it becomes more and more noticable with every new sequel.

Have to add: I hated the HOMM4 battlefield. It was just too difficult to figure out where units would be able to move in one turn, whether you would have line of sight for casting/shooting, etc. I didn't like the HOMM4 sieges much either.

Ah,the awful camera.The BF isnt bad at all,its weird camera angle that makes things difficult.And all that the sieges need are wall destroyers(it could be catapults for heave,cyclops for might,spells for order,gargantuans,or something like that for nature,death could use something like bone piling(creatures that die near walls make a sort of stairs),and dragons for chaos).Other then that,sieges in HIV are very nice.

[Gaidal Cain]

And for all of you who think that everyone hates Heroes 4, take a look at this poll:

Of course, a poll run on a heroes forum is likely to be very biased. I think the results would be rather different if the same question was asked amongst general players...

[DaemianLucifer]

Of course, a poll run on a heroes forum is likely to be very biased. I think the results would be rather different if the same question was asked amongst general players...

Youre right.Highest percent would be those that say they never played heroes,didnt like heroes,or have no time to waste on TBS

[Ethric]

Heh, yep. No reason that I can see to assume that the poll isn't representative for HoMM-players.

[HodgePodge]

And for all of you who think that everyone hates Heroes 4, take a look at this poll:

Round Table Poll … Heroes III vs. Heroes IV

Of course, a poll run on a heroes forum is likely to be very biased. I think the results would be rather different if the same question was asked amongst general players...

Nonetheless, this poll was run on a Heroes fan site asking Heroes fans which they liked better, Heroes III or Heroes IV; I think the outcome would have been even more tilted in Heroes IV's favor amongst general players because they aren't quite as picky as us fanatic Heroes fans.

[Gaidal Cain]

Heh, yep. No reason that I can see to assume that the poll isn't representative for HoMM-players.

Heroes players that are on the CH forum today. If people didn't like H4, they could very well have bailed by now. And the general public has a much worse picture of H4 than we do- no MP, memoryleaks, etc. These were the things in the released version, and they stick. We've half-forgotten them by now.

[Ethric]

CH covers all HoMM's, not only H4.

[Bandobras Took]

I guess it's because I never played multiplayer, but the balance issue never bothered me that much...I actually thought HOMM3 sacrificed too much of the uniqueness of the factions in the name of balance.

I agree.HIII started with the dumbification of heroes series,and it becomes more and more noticable with every new sequel.

I didn't feel that H3 sacrificed too much uniqueness; but then, what they sacrificed was stuff I didn't like in H2 anyway. I actually felt that that the H3 expansions dumbed Heroes down by given us the Faction Any Fool Can Win With in the Conflux and Combo Artifacts that wreck the game in SoD. Not to mention overpowering the Fortress. If anything, the popularity of H3 mostly brought in a mass of people reluctant to try alternate tactics (thus the Fortress was judged to be weakest) and obsessed with "pwnzering" to use the (idiot's) vernacular.

H4 was too rushed, which contributed to my complaints. But I liked most of its ideas. I don't feel that they have to implemented for a game to be great, though.

[Gaidal Cain]

CH covers all HoMM's, not only H4.

And? Remember when H4 was released, and the amount of bashers that were around? Do you really think they've all been "converted"? I've said it before, and I'm likely to say it again, but drawing any conclusions about the general customer base of the heroes games based on a poll on CH (or the Ubi forums, or ToH) is quite likely to lead you wrong. Roughly half the people that answered that poll liked H4 better. At best, that means that half the people who visit these forums has that view.

[DaemianLucifer]

And? Remember when H4 was released, and the amount of bashers that were around? Do you really think they've all been "converted"? I've said it before, and I'm likely to say it again, but drawing any conclusions about the general customer base of the heroes games based on a poll on CH (or the Ubi forums, or ToH) is quite likely to lead you wrong. Roughly half the people that answered that poll liked H4 better. At best, that means that half the people who visit these forums has that view.

If you are doing a survey about lets say the natural colour of hair,your not going to interview the negros and the asiats,and native americans,...since their genetic code allows them just black hair.

You cannot ask someone who never played heroes,or played just the last sequel,which one he likes the most.

[Gaidal Cain]

If you are doing a survey about lets say the natural colour of hair,your not going to interview the negros and the asiats,and native americans,...since their genetic code allows them just black hair.

You cannot ask someone who never played heroes,or played just the last sequel,which one he likes the most.

True. But I can't ask fans posting at a fansite several years after the latest installment came out either. And of course I'll have to account for the asians etc. Not doing so would show there being a lot less black-haired people than there actually are. Your analogy is flawed, becuase those people actually have a hair ddcolor, even if it is a default one, while someone who hasn't played heroes can't have an opinion on heroes.

[DaemianLucifer]

True. But I can't ask fans posting at a fansite several years after the latest installment came out either. And of course I'll have to account for the asians etc. Not doing so would show there being a lot less black-haired people than there actually are. Your analogy is flawed, becuase those people actually have a hair ddcolor, even if it is a default one, while someone who hasn't played heroes can't have an opinion on heroes.

Ok,bad analogy.But still,you can add those results that are default later.And if not the fans of the series,who are you going to ask then?People that never heard of it?