Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.11.2023]

[SpectralDragon]

Dunno man, you see a roast and I see a person getting needlessly hostile I get it that you're passionate about the project but come on.

Our own personalities, our own eyes.
That´s why we have the Unlocker in the 1st place: expanding the game into directions devs would never wish to go that only ones that wish to have some more fun with the game, lore-breaking or not, would get (which, frankly, I am because I´ve been playing the "vanilla" version of it for almost one half of my total lifetime - and with that, I mean all 3 Enroth-based MM games). I find it kind of funny that you˙d have questions about lore validity of different Lich, Vampire, Zombie and Skeleton versions in those games, yet no questions (as it seems right now) about pretty lore-regarded weird stuff happening in other games of the franchise, like the aforementioned Skeleton Transformer of both Heroes II (does it even have it?) and III, which I get because well, Heroes games are strategic and thus making more different sprites would just clutter it up ... and yet it still makes the lore of Heroes games pretty weird, since well, I didn˙t know different humanoids (Minotaurs, Goblins, Gnolls, Lizardmen, Trolls and whatnot) all become human skeletons after exiting the Skeleton Transformer.

To my knowledge, Heroes games also don´t have some specific monsters that appear only in MM VIII as well like Crystal Guardians, Fears (basically evolved Ooze from MM VI), Ether Champions and whatnot ... and as I said, Jadame (MM VIII) is a blind spot of the lore with Dark Elves and Dwarves being native to it (as well as Undead Dragons), thus I can imagine much more weird ("lore-breaking") stuff happening there ... and just to finish this, MM games are more meant to be directed towards the individuals, not the crowd, as we do have only 4-5 adventurers to play as, which is basically the same thing as trees-forest comparison: MM games are "trees", Heroes games are "forest".

Sorry about the rambling there, hopefully you can read through it. Just putting out arguments on why I personally think stuff that are considered "lore-breaking" are alright with me. And yes, I find it ironic that you´d use a Forge unit as your avatar, yet Forge was that one thing that got scrapped from Heroes III due to it being "lore-breaking". Still awesome unit there, Mecha-Zombie?

[SpectralDragon]

Zombification is supposed to minimize all your stats in addition to some other adverse effects.

Here´s what I got from zombification (not shown is reduced HP to 1/2 due to not being able to sleep):

Sounds like tons of work?

It is, but someone has to do that. Might as well be me when it comes to altering paperdolls.

Just a heads up, if you people noticed during the play that Dracolich isn˙t looking in any direction it´s because I˙ve worked on it before getting the stock portraits of Minotaurs, thus I didn˙t know what number corresponded to what action on the portrait. No worries, I ain´t getting that mistake again with Ghost Dragons.

[Roticet]

The only reason I suggested a reskinned dungeon was to make things easier. TBH, if a new dungeon could be made, even if small and people are willing to create a new thing, I would rather have that. Be a nice self-contained easter egg. I humbly request that the new dungeon has a secret entrance like all the NWC dungeons in 6-8. Nothing quite like flying up to the top of the giant sword in 8 and spamming space bar for no good reason to all of a sudden appearing in a brand new place for the first time. My recommendation for a spot to "place" the dungeon, would be in MM7, the opposite side of the bridge that connects to Clanker's Lab. Maybe have a signpost saying that Clankers Lab is on the other side or something. Or people could just walk into the middle of that section, be teleported automatically maybe? MM7, Tulerean Forest, Opposite side of the bridge connecting to Clanker's Lab. That is Clanker's Lab right?

HIlariously enough, Clanker's Lab already has such a secret added in the Merge.

So I would make it elsewhere....

... that terrain glitch spike in Castle Ironfist that is in vanilla is there no longer in the Merge, right? Because at the top of it it would be ideal.

I forgot about that cause I haven't used those secrets in my playthroughs. I always forget about them when i'm playing, so I don't use them. Plus the books gained have been more than enough for me to travel back and forth between the 3 continents. I can't really think of a place to add it to the maps of the games. Except maybe the Caverns of the Dragoon, that's the only place I can think of that doesn't have any relevance besides being a high lvl place to get some really good equipment/artifacts/relics. Maybe it would just be easier to add a new place. Maybe a "small" island was recently discovered, easily added to the Merge Narrative. I would write more, but I don't really wanna spoil the current narrative that combines all 3 games.

[GrayFace]

and as I said, Jadame (MM VIII) is a blind spot of the lore with Dark Elves and Dwarves being native to it (as well as Undead Dragons), thus I can imagine much more weird ("lore-breaking") stuff happening there ...

What do you mean? What's lore-breaking about it? Especially about Undead Dragons, they're all over Heroes games as well.

Zombification is supposed to minimize all your stats in addition to some other adverse effects.

Here´s what I got from zombification (not shown is reduced HP to 1/2 due to not being able to sleep):

Liches should definitely be immune to Zombie condition. As well as vampires.

[SpectralDragon]

What do you mean? What's lore-breaking about it? Especially about Undead Dragons, they're all over Heroes games as well.

Talked to Xfing about it just to clear stuff up with things like Minotaur Liches, Minotaur Zombies, Zombie Liches and whatnot. ^^;

Liches should definitely be immune to Zombie condition. As well as vampires.

Touche.

[SpectralDragon]

Speaking of stuff, I have some excellent news. Ghost Dragon, a Zombie condition for Dragons, has been completed!


Download its source files here: https://sta.sh/01acb3p83gzb

CREDIT GOES TO JAMESX FOR CREATING ORIGINAL BONE DRAGON SOURCE FILES AND TEMPLAYER FOR SHOWING HOW TO MIGHT AND MAGICIZE THEM!

[GrayFace]

Talked to Xfing about it just to clear stuff up with things like Minotaur Liches, Minotaur Zombies, Zombie Liches and whatnot. ^^;

If there are Goblin Liches, there's no reason for Minotaur Liches not to exist, they are pretty good at spells. Troll Liches or minotaurs with daggers would be weird, but that's why it's done through the Unlocker. Undead turning into zombies is totally against the lore though (remember how simple Animate Dead spell is?) and they require extra graphics on top of that, so doing them makes no sense.

[SpectralDragon]

If there are Goblin Liches, there's no reason for Minotaur Liches not to exist, they are pretty good at spells. Troll Liches or minotaurs with daggers would be weird, but that's why it's done through the Unlocker. Undead turning into zombies is totally against the lore though (remember how simple Animate Dead spell is?) and they require extra graphics on top of that, so doing them makes no sense.

Yeah, exactly.

[GrayFace]

My update for the Merge
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aj07pini5ppw8 ... 9.rar?dl=1
- Support for version 2.3 of my patch
- Small updates for MM6&MM7 UI modes
- Better water in MM6 (made it more calm, yet wavy enough)
- Snow and rain opacity can be configured as Game.SnowOpacity and Game.RainOpacity (only in a script for now). Defaults are the same: 70 and 50. I personally have them set to

Code: Select all

Game.SnowOpacity = 20
Game.RainOpacity = 25

P.S. Dropping the new patch version very soon

[edit] I forgot to include 2 files. Please re-download if you've downloaded it before.

[Templayer]

and as I said, Jadame (MM VIII) is a blind spot of the lore with Dark Elves and Dwarves being native to it (as well as Undead Dragons), thus I can imagine much more weird ("lore-breaking") stuff happening there ...

What do you mean? What's lore-breaking about it? Especially about Undead Dragons, they're all over Heroes games as well.

Zombification is supposed to minimize all your stats in addition to some other adverse effects.

Here´s what I got from zombification (not shown is reduced HP to 1/2 due to not being able to sleep):

Liches should definitely be immune to Zombie condition. As well as vampires.

Vampires and Liches might not become zombies, since they are already undead, but Vampires and Zombies might become Liches, since becoming a Lich is just becoming a powerful undead (Vamps and Zombs are already halfway there ). I have never said anything about undead races turning into zombies (only the other way around, zombies turning into more advanced undead, such as Liches).

You know, one thing that always bothered me in MM6 is how easy it is to finish the Cavalier promotion. It just doesnt seem right that Chadwick just nominates a bunch of random peasants for knighthood. Is there a way to make him refuse to nominate you until you have a certain ammount of FAME (KARMA shouldnt affect it)?

That way you cant just run there at level 1 and get promoted.

Same thing about the Wizard quest in MM6. Just drinking from the fountain shouldnt be enough, you should only be able to do it once you have like expert level in all 4 elemental magics.

I am a bit against being an expert level in ALL elemental magics, since I like to distribute schools early. But it could work if it was either expert in all four, or MASTER in ONE. Just some iteration here.
Added to the Suggestion Tracker.

(if the promotion is needed for mastery, which it of course isn't in vanilla MM6 and I am playing vanilla now, then having the amount of points needed for mastery in one of the schools instead would suffice)
Also I added GrayFace's note about two fountains being needed.

... that terrain glitch spike in Castle Ironfist that is in vanilla is there no longer in the Merge, right? Because at the top of it it would be ideal.

Nice idea! We can always return it. That would be very secretive though.

You know, one thing that always bothered me in MM6 is how easy it is to finish the Cavalier promotion. It just doesnt seem right that Chadwick just nominates a bunch of random peasants for knighthood. Is there a way to make him refuse to nominate you until you have a certain ammount of FAME (KARMA shouldnt affect it)?

Nice idea.

Same thing about the Wizard quest in MM6. Just drinking from the fountain shouldnt be enough, you should only be able to do it once you have like expert level in all 4 elemental magics.

The first time I played I thought it's the water pool in the nearby Fire Lord's place that gives some stats that's the magic fountain. Maybe the quest could require both the magic fountain and that pool.

That is kinda the purpose.
Both added as additions to their respective suggestions on the Suggestion Tracker.

I found that you can fall through the floor in Goblinwatch by stopping in the 2nd password doorway (I guess due to the change in physics?), as well as jump through the window in Dragoon's caverns. The dragoon's caverns thing is only really exploitable if it isn't your first continent though, since you probably need to go back through the dungeon to get out.
Also if you are looking for places to either put trainers in Enroth or something, there is a tower in Kriegspire with a door at the top that can't be interacted with (It looks like a dragon tower). It always bugged me because it feels like there should be something important there.
This whole project is really incredible!
EDIT: Now that I think of it, you might get trapped if you jump through the window? That could be a problem.

Added to the Bug Tracker and you have been added to the Bug Catchers section of the Credits Tracker.
Also the Kriegspire thing has been added to the Suggestions Tracker.

Speaking of stuff, I have some excellent news. Ghost Dragon, a Zombie condition for Dragons, has been complete!


Download its source files here: https://sta.sh/01acb3p83gzb

CREDIT GOES TO JAMESX FOR CREATING ORIGINAL BONE DRAGON SOURCE FILES AND TEMPLAYER FOR SHOWING HOW TO MIGHT AND MAGICIZE THEM!

Added to the Paint Tracker.
I have already added the Dracolich there too.
I also added you to the Major contributors section of the Credits Tracker.

[SpectralDragon]

Added to the Paint Tracker.
I have already added the Dracolich there too.
I also added you to the Major contributors section of the Credits Tracker.

Many thanks! And you have fun doing that voice/voices if you so wish.

[GrayFace]

I think I'll remake some paperdolls from MM6 and I'll record that on video to show how to do that conversion in GIMP with good quality, so that whoever wants to do armor conversions can do it the same way.

[SpectralDragon]

Ok, people, since I´ve noticed some glaring missing stuff with Dracolich portraits that were ported into the game, I˙ve decided to take on them and just mend them (as best as I can as a pixel artist, that is. ^^;) as well as give them appropriate numbers, so that they don´t get confused by the game engine, basically making them look into all directions and assigning proper numbers to them on when they´d show up

You can get the fixed (hopefully) version of Dracolich portrait icons HERE: https://sta.sh/012i8pfq6qha

UPDATE: Got the link to the updated fixed portrait and paperdoll version back. Hopefully no more troubles arise.

Credit still goes to Jamesx for providing me with source files and porting them to the game as well as Templayer for showing how to properly Might and Magicize them. Ghost Dragon doesn˙t have the same problem, but then it also isn˙t ported to the game yet, so yeah. Same with Templayer´s Dracolich, Minotaur Lich, Troll Lich, Vampire Lich and Zombie Lich sound files (regular Liches are optional to get into the game, thus I didn˙t mention them).

I think I'll remake some paperdolls from MM6 and I'll record that on video to show how to do that conversion in GIMP with good quality, so that whoever wants to do armor conversions can do it the same way.

Please do. Will be really assisting to me, especially when it comes to armors.

[Templayer]

I think I'll remake some paperdolls from MM6 and I'll record that on video to show how to do that conversion in GIMP with good quality, so that whoever wants to do armor conversions can do it the same way.

Also make sure to make a text version, so that I can add that to the Tutorials Tracker.

Credit still goes to Jamesx for providing me with source files and porting them to the game as well as Templayer for showing how to properly Might and Magicize them. Ghost Dragon doesn˙t have the same problem, but then it also isn˙t ported to the game yet, so yeah. Same with Templayer´s Dracolich, Minotaur Lich, Troll Lich, Vampire Lich and Zombie Lich sound files (regular Liches are optional to get into the game, thus I didn˙t mention them).

I could use a batch rename utility to add "_lich" at the end of those variations' original names.
Then in-game something among the principle of "if the character is converted to Lich, and it's current voice set has _lich files, use their voiceset, else use default Lich voiceset"

Same for Zombies. And set those voicesets as default if those Lich / zombie / vampire variations are selected during character creation by using the unlocker.

Something like that would work, I think. Or some "sound transmutation table" where it would be like this:
Original voice set ID | Corresponding Lich voice set ID | Corresponding Zombie voice set ID

And during the transformation into a lich or a zombie (if applicable), voice set would be switched, if not applicable, default Lich or Zombie set will be used.

And for the Lich Remake voice ... maybe just have a file called MergeOptions.txt where there would be "UseLichRemasteredVoice" with default being "=false".

[Crusader_bin]

I think I'll remake some paperdolls from MM6 and I'll record that on video to show how to do that conversion in GIMP with good quality, so that whoever wants to do armor conversions can do it the same way.

Awesome, I was meaning to ask for something like that, but didn't want to be too imposing

[SpectralDragon]

This is gonna take much longer than expected, but definitely not as long as if I´d redraw the expressions myself ... which will inevitably happen.

I could use a batch rename utility to add "_lich" at the end of those variations' original names.
Then in-game something among the principle of "if the character is converted to Lich, and it's current voice set has _lich files, use their voiceset, else use default Lich voiceset"

Same for Zombies. And set those voicesets as default if those Lich / zombie / vampire variations are selected during character creation by using the unlocker.

Something like that would work, I think. Or some "sound transmutation table" where it would be like this:
Original voice set ID | Corresponding Lich voice set ID | Corresponding Zombie voice set ID

And during the transformation into a lich or a zombie (if applicable), voice set would be switched, if not applicable, default Lich or Zombie set will be used.

And for the Lich Remake voice ... maybe just have a file called MergeOptions.txt where there would be "UseLichRemasteredVoice" with default being "=false".

That would be for the absolute best there, just gotta work with other coders for that.

[Templayer]

This is gonna take much longer than expected, but definitely not as long as if I´d redraw the expressions myself ... which will inevitably happen.

Added as a WORK IN PROGRESS to the Paint Tracker. Same for the Lich Minotaur.

[GrayFace]

I think I'll remake some paperdolls from MM6 and I'll record that on video to show how to do that conversion in GIMP with good quality, so that whoever wants to do armor conversions can do it the same way.

Also make sure to make a text version, so that I can add that to the Tutorials Tracker.

Sure! In form of a link to the video

[Templayer]

Voice Sets status:
The Ghost Dragon took me about five hours to create a filter for. Mostly due to stuff crashing.

I won't be doing Vampire variations anytime soon.

I'm also planning to do a Skeleton noise set, eventually. As long as somebody removes the glowing eyes from all the Liches.
Statistically they would be weaker in strength, but faster, more accurate than a zombie. Also more luck just for the chance for a spell, arrow or hit to just go through them.

With all these variations, you could make quite the diverse Ultimate Evil team. Skeleton something with Zombie something with Lich something with Vampire something with Ghost (Dragon-only).

[Xfing]

Dunno man, you see a roast and I see a person getting needlessly hostile I get it that you're passionate about the project but come on.

Our own personalities, our own eyes.
That´s why we have the Unlocker in the 1st place: expanding the game into directions devs would never wish to go that only ones that wish to have some more fun with the game, lore-breaking or not, would get (which, frankly, I am because I´ve been playing the "vanilla" version of it for almost one half of my total lifetime - and with that, I mean all 3 Enroth-based MM games). I find it kind of funny that you˙d have questions about lore validity of different Lich, Vampire, Zombie and Skeleton versions in those games, yet no questions (as it seems right now) about pretty lore-regarded weird stuff happening in other games of the franchise, like the aforementioned Skeleton Transformer of both Heroes II (does it even have it?) and III, which I get because well, Heroes games are strategic and thus making more different sprites would just clutter it up ... and yet it still makes the lore of Heroes games pretty weird, since well, I didn˙t know different humanoids (Minotaurs, Goblins, Gnolls, Lizardmen, Trolls and whatnot) all become human skeletons after exiting the Skeleton Transformer.

That's a compromise for gameplay more than a lore break IMO. Heroes always did plenty of that. Like having an army of potentially tens of thousands represented on the map by one guy on a horse for example. Necessary limitations brought on by the mechanics.

To my knowledge, Heroes games also don´t have some specific monsters that appear only in MM VIII as well like Crystal Guardians, Fears (basically evolved Ooze from MM VI), Ether Champions and whatnot ... and as I said, Jadame (MM VIII) is a blind spot of the lore with Dark Elves and Dwarves being native to it (as well as Undead Dragons), thus I can imagine much more weird ("lore-breaking") stuff happening there ... and just to finish this, MM games are more meant to be directed towards the individuals, not the crowd, as we do have only 4-5 adventurers to play as, which is basically the same thing as trees-forest comparison: MM games are "trees", Heroes games are "forest".

Look i'm not fundamentally opposed to what you guys are doing, but I just feel the order of doing things is a bit off. The game is still missing some integration features, mostly repaints of armor and other gear. I'd do that myself if I knew two shits about photoshop, you can trust me on that. Also, call me weird but playing dress-up with all the stuff available in all 3 games would be replay value in and of itself. For example the red cloak feom MM6 would look absolutely kickass on Clerics dressed in all gold (classic mm8 look). So yeah, I'd even be willing to pay someone to finish up all that stuff. That way I could start properly enjoying the optional additions too.

Sorry about the rambling there, hopefully you can read through it. Just putting out arguments on why I personally think stuff that are considered "lore-breaking" are alright with me. And yes, I find it ironic that you´d use a Forge unit as your avatar, yet Forge was that one thing that got scrapped from Heroes III due to it being "lore-breaking". Still awesome unit there, Mecha-Zombie?

Ironically, it's the opposite of lore-breaking. The reason why Forge was scrapped was because more people played Heroes than MM so they had no idea how appropriate it actually was. That and supposed "aesthetic and conceptual clashes" and other bullshit like that :/ the unit's name is Cyber Zombie.

What do you mean? What's lore-breaking about it? Especially about Undead Dragons, they're all over Heroes games as well.

Talked to Xfing about it just to clear stuff up with things like Minotaur Liches, Minotaur Zombies, Zombie Liches and whatnot. ^^;

Having zombie and lich sprites for non-humanoid races and dwarves is something that needs to make its way into the core game, let alone be optional, lol

But, as for zombies turning into liches - that's kind of a weird notion IMO. Turning into a lich is all about preservation of intelligence, while a zombie has none left from when it was alive. Vampires are fine and would probably be even possible, but zombies were always more of an undesirable state than a full-fledged race with potential for growth and development. Much less becoming a sorcerer with those high intelligence requirements, while being a zombie removes like 90% of it for your character. Also, a living person turning into a zombie or a lich always seemed to me like a forked path rather than a sequential one... Just my 2 cents tho