HoMM III: Best level 3 creature

[Danny]

Thanks for the info! Those other stuff you mentioned were implemented by the time of Armageddon's Blade or Shadow of Death so safe to assume Cerberus happnened at the same time?

[Bandobras Took]

I'm shocked so many people like grand elves. They are weak in stack test (100 vs. 100) and in typical game they die easily. No vote for iron golems? They nearly as strong as ice elementals so what the hell?

Lizard Warriors beat Marksmen in 100 vs 100 stack test. Guess which one is actually more useful?

Grand Elves will have fired 4-6 times in the time it takes Iron Golems to get across the field. That is why they've received so many votes. Damage and health only tell part of the tale; movement speed, method of attack, and special abilities also factor in heavily.

[ThunderTitan]

Also, blocking access to them does wonders.

[Dr.Marsupio]

For me its the Evil Eye, high damage output, and hard to pin down as they don't suffer meele-damage penalty (also, some really ridiculous hp and nice solid defense stat) Superb all around unit can, also, they have no business having a speed of 7.

Dragonfly is a close second because they always give you the initiative in combat, that's simply op.

The elves get obliterated by magic in all stages of the game, if you don't have redorb or magic-res they are doomed to die by the hundreds.

[cjlee]

For me its the Evil Eye, high damage output, and hard to pin down as they don't suffer meele-damage penalty (also, some really ridiculous hp and nice solid defense stat) Superb all around unit can, also, they have no business having a speed of 7.

Dragonfly is a close second because they always give you the initiative in combat, that's simply op.

The elves get obliterated by magic in all stages of the game, if you don't have redorb or magic-res they are doomed to die by the hundreds.

I agree that Evil Eyes are generally good units, but most of the experts don't like evil eyes. I think it's because of their lack of special abilities. Most dungeon troops are unpopular for that reason.

[Maciek]

Actually, all Dungeon troops except Manticore have at least one special ability. Or do you mean 'lack of specialization'? Because indeed the problem with Evil Eyes/Beholders is that they are Jacks of all trades, but they're not really best at anything. And they are as expensive as some towns' level 4 units (of level 3 units, only Ice Elementals are more expensive). So, chances are that whatever you're doing with your Evil Eyes/Beholders, some other level 3 unit can do it better and cheaper.

Just looking at stats, Beholders are the most average level 3 creature in existence. Medians of all stats match those of Beholder except for attack (Beholder - 10, median for level 3 creatures is 9) and price (280 vs median 240). I certainly wouldn't call it a good unit.

[Galaad]

I would have gone for the Flies even though I think Elves are overrated and Ice Elementals underrated, but didn't vote as I think another reason of Heroes III's greatness is first and foremost the skill of the player, a very good player can still win even with all possible odds against him and that is just too good.

[cjlee]

I would have gone for the Flies even though I think Elves are overrated and Ice Elementals underrated, but didn't vote as I think another reason of Heroes III's greatness is first and foremost the skill of the player, a very good player can still win even with all possible odds against him and that is just too good.

Aha! This was one of the main concepts I was trying to pin down when I started that thread in the H7 forum about taking lessons from H3.

Many H3 creatures, artifacts, skills and spells are game breaking, with only one ability or artifact or creature that can counter, maybe a combo of two other creatures/ artifacts/ abilities that can counter, and one more spell or spell combo that can counter. So game can turn on a knife edge and be reversed very quickly. Good players have to keep thinking.

When you come across that creature, spell or strategy in action, you have to figure out how to counter or die.

For instance, if enemy hero has a big army of Phoenixes and armageddon, you're dead unless you can apply one of the following counters:

Several artifacts that let you out-speed the Phoenixes. (general)
Blind-berserk after completing some quest for orb of vulnerability/ orb of magic negation
Sir Mullich + Azure Dragons on neutral ground (human faction with access to dwelling)
Find a way to mass efreet sultans and dragons (dungeon, rampart and inferno)
Get enough HP of magic resistant creatures onto the field, then use a combo of spells like mass slow, etc (wizard faction)
Endure the first blow and just outlast them eg whittling down phoenixes with cloned mighty gorgons (Fortress or Thorgrim)
Run away using your logistics and escape tunnel, conquer other factions, and come back with serious brute force and resistant creatures (Stronghold)
Endure with skeletons, reanimate and vampire-suck your way back to health, and use anti-living creature spells (Necropolis)


In H6 thanks to the homogenization of everything, you only need masses to beat someone else's game breaking skill, specialization, or strategy. It's a dumbed down game design for console players. It reaches a larger market that doesn't want to think, and makes it possible for anyone to win without enough game knowledge, creativity, versatility, etc.

[Danny]

Went with Royal Griffin!

[mikeiron]

Voted for Elfes. Years of playing ordered me to pick them : )

[Artas1984]

Man i've missed the old days of such bantering and discussions and i've missed those familiar forum member icons! I've seen many great forums die with many legendary discussions (old bioware ''Forgotten Realms'' game forums was the hardest loss for me). All those moments have been lost in time like tears in rain - you know where that comes from?. I am just glad that Heroes 3 will not die until we probably die ourselves!

Funny, after 10+ years we can finally draw out a stable conclusion: THE GRAND ELF!