Another Suggested Future Direction for Heroes franchise

[cjlee]

First person shooters and MMORPGs are now the rage. I don't think Ubisoft can pass up on the opportunity to make money, and they don't want to invest in TBS. So why not a future Heroes of Might and Magic that can allow Ubisoft to make money from the huge FPS and console markets? (Remember, if Ubisoft can't be convinced that they can make piles of money, they will never invest into making a good game that we all can like.)

How about a future H8 that takes its core ideas from H4? Most of the game will be hero-oriented, although you can definitely summon or buy other creatures to front for you especially if you are a weak Emilia mage.

Take one hero, level her up to uber status like Alexandra in that custom H4 scenario Alexandra the Great. To save money (you know Ubisoft is too stingy to spend, and you know Ubisoft doesn't really care about graphics or ironing out bugs), just pay Blizzard a bit of money to use their now dated WoW game engine which is at least bug free.

[Galaad]

Heroes should stay Heroes, and Ubisoft should sell the rights because they don't understand what the series are about. Personally I consider despite its changes h4 to be closer to the original spirit than h6 and h7.
It's about the people who make it, if they can't grasp what made these series so great from the start there is no hope.

[Kalah]

As for reintroducing elements from H4 ... I liked heroes on the battlefield, but I have to concede that having them off the battlefield makes more sense since it also places importance on the creatures and a wider range of the hero abilities. In H4, the system was even more flawed by the fact that you could make your heroes personal combat machines and glug down immortality potions; such items and abilities would have to be scrapped in any future game where heroes would once again take to the field.

[Panda Tar]

I think another problem with their direct interaction was the comparison of themselves with a whole army (stacks of units). But I do believe they should remain in combat, because they are the main target of any army (you go in to kill/capture their leaders), so I think they can play around the possibilities of engage in battle when not protected.

Well, a full glimpse of that idea can be found in HC, where I had a thread to discuss that matter, if any of you would like to take a glimpse. Area of Command would be the feature in discussion on the matter regarding heroes on battlefield. Of course, in that thread, I was hoping to discuss other features as well, one of them being the use of irregular terrain (height) for example.

[cjlee]

As for reintroducing elements from H4 ... I liked heroes on the battlefield, but I have to concede that having them off the battlefield makes more sense since it also places importance on the creatures and a wider range of the hero abilities. In H4, the system was even more flawed by the fact that you could make your heroes personal combat machines and glug down immortality potions; such items and abilities would have to be scrapped in any future game where heroes would once again take to the field.

I have very, very rarely used immortality potions for this reason.

Especially if you are playing a paladin with artifacts that allow regeneration or vampiricism.

BTW I agree with Galaad; I think Ubisoft doesn't understand how to make a good game or product in general, and they should find someone else who values this intellectual property more than them.

[MadMax]

Or how about allowing myself and Yurian Stonebow to do a new Heroes 3?
The game will be in our own universe, Sighisoara, and it will be all the good old Heroes 3 maps. Sort of like the chronicle series, we get to release our own campaigns!
And while we are at it, why not send them off into those good old big boxes?

[Kalah]

This is why I like H3 and H4; you don't have to do the game again, you just have to use those excellent editors to create new stories, universes and campaigns!

[cjlee]

This is why I like H3 and H4; you don't have to do the game again, you just have to use those excellent editors to create new stories, universes and campaigns!

As much of a fan of H3 and H4 as I am, I really am tired of how they look. Something that is made for 800x600 really isn't ideal when monitors now have standard 1920x1080 and 3D is the default norm. H3 graphics look positively childish now and I'm tired of looking at them after so many hours.

no matter what, we need a new world. we need something new. H7 isn't it, but I wish the community could get together and mod something more to our liking.

Two decades ago I was strongly against pirating of HOMM games. Now in a recent post, I said I wished the piracy numbers would go way up. We need as many enthusiasts (paying or not) as possible to make this community thrive. We need enough Russian and Chinese gamers to get together and make some H7.5 Quantolibris Wake of Abyss mod. Ubisoft will never make a decent Heroes game.

[Kalah]

You're treading close to our "no piracy discussion" rule there, but yes, as JVC himself said in a recent interview: he didn't know the series had such a big following in Asia since the games weren't being sold there. After they realized the games were popular (since they were pirated instead), they started selling more to Asia. The main point is that we need a big, active community.

[Galaad]

As much of a fan of H3 and H4 as I am, I really am tired of how they look. Something that is made for 800x600 really isn't ideal when monitors now have standard 1920x1080 and 3D is the default norm.

This is why there is the HD mod from Baratorch, the latest versions are excellent IMO and with HotA the game looks beautiful as ever. Not even mentioning all the enhanced features, rebalance (Tower can now get Giants day 5 ie), details and polishing, and new stuff (new town, new creature, new banks, new artifacts etc). H3 is still alive, and still being patched up with that outstanding fan made addon.

And I don't even mention VCMI which will be THE stuff once the "big release" will come.

no matter what, we need a new world. we need something new. H7 isn't it, but I wish the community could get together and mod something more to our liking.

This I wholeheartedly agree. Man don't you think NWC's vision of H5 would still look fresh if it came out today, with nowadays technology for graphics? Even the Nival adventure map concept for H6 that got scrapped I thought was headed in a good direction.

I was myself planning to go serious into 3D modeling and texturing since I already do a bit of 3DSMAX and Photoshop but rapidly lost interest and motivation when H7's game mechanics finally got revealed for what they actually were, and the final nail to the coffin was when they stated some of the most important stuff (to me) such as skill system was being hardcoded.

[cjlee]

You're treading close to our "no piracy discussion" rule there, but yes, as JVC himself said in a recent interview: he didn't know the series had such a big following in Asia since the games weren't being sold there. After they realized the games were popular (since they were pirated instead), they started selling more to Asia. The main point is that we need a big, active community.

Let me dispel one myth: that H3 was pirated in China when 3D0 had not taken any interest in the Chinese market.


By copyright law in the US and most developed countries, if something is NOT available legally in a country, it is protected by fair use provisions to make copies and distribute for free in that country.


So if 3D0 ignored the Chinese market and people started filesharing H3 in China, it doesn't meet the legal definition of copyright infringement under US law and WTO agreements. Most of the original H3 'piracy' in China was not piracy at all because 3D0 had not licensed any distributor in China. Even if 3D0 had licensed, if that distributor had made no efforts to distribute, under some conditions (this will depend on the wording of the laws and other international agreements) that might still not be piracy. So if distributor had only opened one shop in some remote Chinese village to sell an untranslated version of HOMM at a price most Chinese could not afford on 5 inch floppy disks, that might not meet the criteria for a distributor to claim that they were entitled to legal protection from copyright infringement, because good faith 'distribution' may not be held to have taken place.


Fair use protection ends when a licensed copy is available in a commonly available media in a country. So if 3D0 had licensed someone to distribute H3 on CDs or over an internet connection in China, that unquestionably ends the right for people to fileshare H3 in China. However if this distributor later went bankrupt and 3D0's successor Ubisoft didn't bother to get the legal and distribution agreements worked out with GOG.com, H3 may wind up qualifying for Fair Use distribution once again in China.


Of course if you are located in any country where GOG.com can sell to and has agreed with Ubisoft to distribute to, you won't be able to join the free fun. This means that you may have a situation where a Montenegrin or San Marino member openly talks about filesharing H3, and it is ok for them but not for the French or Australian members of this forum. (I mention these two small countries because small countries often get overlooked in legal agreements, and as a result they luck into getting Fair Use protection for behaviour that would normally be considered piracy. I haven't looked at any legal agreements Ubisoft made, so of course I don't know if Ubisoft has arranged for distribution in Montenegro and San Marino.)

[cjlee]

just to add, filesharing under Fair Use not just has to end once legal distribution is available. The people who own fileshared copies are also bound by law to obtain legal copies and delete their shared copies.

At one time it was a legal loophole that some people exploited. You could legally watch pirated movies openly in pirate cinemas, until the legit came to a cinema in your country. Hollywood studios ended that loophole by doing worldwide release, so most blockbusters get released within days of each other in cinemas everywhere. But this also means that smaller studios without distribution power, would still get their stuff legally fileshared.

The entire Japananime filesharing world really depends on this legal loophole. That's why reading, even downloading and keeping, most anime fansubs and scanlations are legal anywhere outside Japan. I feel bad for the anime and manga creators who are not powerful players like Hollywood Studios, Big Publishers and International Record companies. The rich bastards at Disney keep getting richer, and poor mangaka can barely feed themselves.

[MadMax]

This is why I like H3 and H4; you don't have to do the game again, you just have to use those excellent editors to create new stories, universes and campaigns!

Yes indeed! That is what I love as well.
Unlike cjlee I actually still love the graphics and have a problem with seeing them replaced!

Hmm.. I just got an idea that would be cool (But most likely people do not care enough..), but to have Masters of Sighisoara printed out as a "physical copy". The big question is, would there be enough of a community for it? (4 campaigns released in a "box" version.
Would be very cool to have!

So, to make it on topic, that could be something that would be cool for the franchise. Make physical copies/compendiums of fan base maps. Either just as a bulk, or after "themes" (like Sighisoara related, or Asian themed, or whatever like that).


More off topic, I like the notification bar, great way to keep more updated!

[cjlee]

If you're going to do something physical, might as well put together everything since they will fit 1 CD easily.

This is one of the nice things about H3. You can put hundreds of user made maps and campaigns, WoG, HoTA, etc. all and it will fit one CD and it is still fresh and replayable and engaging. Cost of that CD is what, 30 cents?

H7, you need several DVDs, take forever to install and patch, require tons of computing power, etc and don't get more enjoyment.

Its like MIcrosoft products - latest versions of MSOS take up hundreds of times as much space as 1990s MSOS, but can only do a wee bit more and are only a wee bit more stable and reliable.

Brains with quality beat brawn and quantity.

[MadMax]

If you're going to do something physical, might as well put together everything since they will fit 1 CD easily.

This is one of the nice things about H3. You can put hundreds of user made maps and campaigns, WoG, HoTA, etc. all and it will fit one CD and it is still fresh and replayable and engaging. Cost of that CD is what, 30 cents?

H7, you need several DVDs, take forever to install and patch, require tons of computing power, etc and don't get more enjoyment.

Exactly this, I think I have seen some of those on ebay. It would be great if Ubisoft wanted to release something like that just to reach out to a bigger audience.

Since we went on facebook, people have told us they enjoyed our first campaign as much as or more than the original campaings. That is the best compliment ever recieved haha...

But getting to release our campaigns as a "Heroes Chronicles" version would be great. Not because we want/need money, but because it would be awesome.
However, a big "archive" would be better I guess since if everyone making their own campaigns were releasing a "box", it would be a flood of them on the market!

Still, I do enjoy the idea of an official "Heroes 3 fan made release"