Tech Corner

[mr.hackcrag]

I am in the process of building a new desktop and have questions about listed specs vs. benchmarks. I narrowed down all my parts based on highest listed specs for comparable pricing, but is that the best way to do it?

I'm not sure exactly how to use benchmark information in choosing the right computer part as well and what sources to use?

Also, how important is the maker of a computer part? For example, does it make a big difference if using an intel motherboard vs. asrock motherboard of comparable specs? Does the maker have an influence on benchmark ratings?

[Pol]

You can benchmark only some components. Usually CPU, VGA, HDD and motherboard.

Where only for CPU and VGA these are most important values. However you can "easily" deduce the performance from the spec, if there's not something special in the middle of your calculation. That's however, quite possible to happen in the IT.

So, what is the better way to go?

Go for quality and reliability of the components. Did you narrowed your search? Do you have a vision of what should be computer capable? What tasks you will performing on it?

[GreatEmerald]

Well, best to use reliable sources, and as many sources as you can find. For instance, Tom's Hardware does a pretty good job at benchmarking. As for what parts of the benchmark are the most important, well, that depends on what you'll use the PC for.

As for the part manufacturer - it depends on the type of the part. For motherboards, there usually is no difference. For power supplies, on the other hand, the difference is quite important, as untrustworthy manufacturers are likely to cheat with the stated specifications. For other parts, certain manufacturers have certain points to be aware of. For example, Creative are good at making sound cards, but absolutely horrible at making drivers for them. ASUS, on the other hand, make less impressive sound cards but with solid drivers. So, giving a list of what you're looking at is a good place to start.

--

In other news, I recently upgraded my PC with an Ivy Bridge i5 CPU. Cut down the processing time of videos in nearly a half, so it's pretty cool. In order to upgrade that, I also had to upgrade the motherboard, so now I have things like USB 3.0, PCIe 3.0 and SATA 3.0 (or 6 Gb/s) support. I don't have anything that uses any of them right now, but that makes sure that it will be good in the future as well. As a matter of fact, I will probably get a PCIe 3.0 card next year or so.

[GreatEmerald]

Yea, GPU benchmarks are more important than specifications, as there is a whole lot of different things that determine the overall performance of one. It also helps to know the naming schemes of GPUs:

Intel's current generation integrated graphics use names such as HD 2000, HD 2500, HD 3000 and HD 4000. Everything up to 3000 (non-inclusive) means that it's a low-end GPU, while everything after that means it's a high-end GPU. 2000 and 3000 are Sandy Bridge (previous generation), 2500 and 4000 are Ivy Bridge (current generation). If you look at the benchmarks, 2500 has nearly the same performance as 3000.

AMD cards are Radeon HD XXXX. The first digit indicates the generation, the second indicates the tier (3-5 are low end, 6-7 are middle, 8-9 are high end), the third indicates the position in the tier (5 is lower end, 7 is higher end, 9 is highest end), and the last indicates a revision. So an HD 7850 is the latest generation, in the high end tier, and slower compared to an HD 7870. An HD 6990 would be of the previous generation, highest end and the fastest from the highest end, which in turn means that it's probably faster than an HD 7850, but not as fast as an HD 7990.

NVIDIA cards are GeForce LLL XXX, with the first batch being letters, the second batch being numbers. The letters indicate the tier - nothing or GT for low end, GTX for high end. The first number indicates the generation (currently it's "6", but the generation itself is called "600" or Kepler), the second number indicates the tier (on a finer scale than the letters: 1-3 are low-end, 4-5 are middle end, 6-9 are high end), and the last number indicates the position in the tier. So, once again, a GT 640 is slower than a GTX 660, and GTX 665 is faster than a GTX 660. A GTX 590 is faster than all of the aforementioned, but a GTX 690 is even faster.

So that allows for simple comparison. But, of course, you should check benchmarks to see what they realistically are capable of, and to compare cards from different brands or different generations.

[mr.hackcrag]

Here are parts I'm considering

Processor:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0388577

Motherboard

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0388327

or

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0386363

Video Card:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0386737

Power Supply

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0301547

Memory

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0382101

or

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0347306

Hard Drive

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0375261

Case

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0343331

or.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0396100

or

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0396099

After tax and rebates, it would cost about $650. I would also have to buy windows 7 for $200 (although I have a $180 gift card). Unless my friend helps me build it, I would have to pay the store $85 to put it together. Is it worth it for the money, or should I just get a prebuilt one?

[GreatEmerald]

So what are you going to use that for?

General observations:
- The processor is strong, nearly identical to mine except that is has HD 4000 graphics instead of HD 2500. You might want to see if there are similar models with an HD 2500 that are cheaper, as realistically you won't get a whole lot out of integrated graphics if you also have a dedicated card. Alternatively, depending on your workload, you could drop the dedicated card.

- All the motherboards look good. The factor in choosing here would be the price, connector place and amount of fan connectors. How many fans will you have?

- The video card is rather slow. Once again, it depends on your workload, however. Interestingly enough, the difference between an Intel HD 4000 and an AMD HD 6670 is the same as between the AMD HD 6670 and the AMD HD 4890, which I have and which is already 3 years old. The main disadvantage of the card you are looking at is that it has GDDR3 memory, which is slow by today's standards.

- The PSUs look good. I'd take the OCZ one, although the differences are not as big.

- The memory looks a bit too high up there. There is hardly any reason to use anything fancy with a cooler, as long as the board itself gets adequate airflow. So if you can find something cheaper, use that.

- The hard drive... Eh, I wouldn't take that one. The Deskstars have very bad reputation from the past (hence their nickname "Deathstar"). Plus, any hard drives advertising that they support 6 Gb/s is pretty much fake. At 7200 RPM, you can't achieve those speeds anyway. If you can find a cheaper, more reliable hard drive with 3 Gb/s, use that. Save those SATA 6 Gb/s ports for SSDs - those can utilise it, and they are really, really fast.

[Pol]

@mr.hackcrag
I definitively think that you should write to our POTD or something..

Quick review of your linked components:

Core i5 3570K 3.4GHz LGA 1155 Processor Good Choice
Asrock Z77 Pro4 LGA 1155 ATX Intel Motherboard NO
Biostar TZ77A LGA 1155 Z77 ATX Intel Motherboard Gosh..
Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H LGA 1155 Z77 ATX Intel Motherboard Good Choice
Diamond 6670PE32G AMD Radeon HD 6670 2048MB GDDR3 PCIe 2.1 x16 Video Card Go for stronger card at least 7750
PC Power&Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 600 Watt ATX Modular Power Supply No special reason for. There's no more Power&Cooling story..
OCZ Technology ModXStream Pro 600W Modular ATX Power Supply Standard PSU, you can find better
Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) CL9 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit (Two 4GB Memory Modules) Could be
HGST Deskstar 7K1000.D 1TB 7,200RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM Could be (It's not WD Green so it might be good choice)

I would need to read all these little specs and reviews to tell you more, so that must wait. But I'm poking you in the right direction.

Also it would help tremendously if you would reply to my two questions.

Do you have a vision of what that should be computer capable? What tasks you will be performing on it? Shortly, what are you planning to do on it?

[GreatEmerald]

(It's not WD Green so it might be good choice)

*Exhem*, what do you have against my WD Caviar Green? Although it's not my primary disk, but it's working just fine, even for 1080p recordings.

Also, why such an opinion on the motherboards?

[mr.hackcrag]

Alternatively, depending on your workload, you could drop the dedicated card..

Will it be able to play games?

How many fans will you have?.

I'm not sure yet...

- The main disadvantage of the card you are looking at is that it has GDDR3 memory, which is slow by today's standards..

I read that GDDR is better than DDR, hmm....

I definitively think that you should write to our POTD or something..

Okay, but I don't know what that is.

Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H LGA 1155 Z77 ATX Intel Motherboard Good Choice

How about this one, it's a little cheaper, but got poorer reviews...

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0388327

Diamond 6670PE32G AMD Radeon HD 6670 2048MB GDDR3 PCIe 2.1 x16 Video Card Go for stronger card at least 7750

I read on a benchmark that the 6700's outperformed the 7700's... Also, the Diamond's listed specs are equal or better to the next tier of video cards, but I don't really know what a lot of the specs even mean or are true... Which is better, the geforce or radeons?

PC Power&Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 600 Watt ATX Modular Power Supply No special reason for. There's no more Power&Cooling story..

So I should choose different, it's out of stock anyway...

Do you have a vision of what that should be computer capable?

I don't have a vision, but I do use a computer I purchased 13 years ago and still runs Windows 98. Maybe it's time for this old geezer to get with the times... I would like the computer to be able to handle things that will be released 5 years from now.

What tasks you will be performing on it? what are you planning to do on it?

I would like to use internet, play a few games (like Avonu's favorite Warlock MOTA), create/record music using my piano keyboard, school related stuff, possibly watching something (but I haven't watched TV for almost 4 years!)

Finally, I heard that there will be a new AMD processor coming out soon. Should I put this on hold until then?

Also, the 8 core AMD is about $50 cheaper than I5, but benchmarks say I5 outperforms the 8 core and is better overall. Money is not a big issue, but which would offer more bang for the buck?

[GreatEmerald]

Will it be able to play games?

It can't handle games that have high requirements, like Mass Effect 3 or so. However, old and casual games would work just fine. Warlock is brand new and requires something stronger, however. So you need a dedicated card. Hence you can drop the HD 4000 for something cheaper with an HD 2500 or no integrated graphics at all. The only thing that it can help you with if you also have a dedicated card is for OpenCL (video processing) and if the graphics drivers for the dedicated card are not good at something (like if you get screen tearing). Or if you want better power saving, in which case integrated graphics use a lot less energy.

I'm not sure yet...

Well, make sure that the motherboard you're looking at would have at least the same amount of fan ports that you get when purchasing a case. Somehow board manufacturers often omit those ports for no good reason. My board has 4 fan connectors, and finding one with that was rather difficult.

I read that GDDR is better than DDR, hmm....

Yes, and GDDR3 is worse than GDDR5.

I read on a benchmark that the 6700's outperformed the 7700's... Also, the Diamond's listed specs are equal or better to the next tier of video cards, but I don't really know what a lot of the specs even mean or are true... How about these:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0366598

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0386737

Which is better, the geforce or radeons?

That NVIDIA card is even worse. The 7750 would be enough to play Warlock on medium settings. As for which is better in general, the benchmarks are what tells you about that. Unless you're on Linux, in which case NVIDIA has better proprietary drivers, and AMD has better open-source drivers.

I would like to use internet, play a few games (like Avonu's favorite Warlock MOTA), create/record music using my piano keyboard, school related stuff, possibly watching something (but I haven't watched TV for almost 4 years!)

Finally, I heard that there will be a new AMD processor coming out soon. Should I put this on hold until then?

Also, the 8 core AMD is about $50 cheaper than I5, but benchmarks say I5 outperforms the 8 core and is better overall. Money is not a big issue, but which would offer more bang for the buck?

So, all in all you'd probably need a bit faster graphics card to support new games that will come out in the next years. A good processor helps with faster sound processing. And if you want to create music, you need to make sure to have everything ready for that - can your keyboard interface with the computer directly? Using what connectors? Depending on that, you might need a dedicated sound card, possibly with hardware MIDI support.

Well, for you, processor speed isn't really critical. It's good to have that, but it's not top priority. As for core amount versus core speed, if you have something highly threadable, then more cores is better than faster cores. For gaming, faster cores is more important, as games don't thread all that well. Audio software like Audacity seem to be lightly threaded as well. So you should probably stick with less cores with faster clock speeds for each instead.

[mr.hackcrag]

It can't handle games that have high requirements, like Mass Effect 3 or so. However, old and casual games would work just fine. Warlock is brand new and requires something stronger, however. So you need a dedicated card. Hence you can drop the HD 4000 for something cheaper with an HD 2500 or no integrated graphics at all. The only thing that it can help you with if you also have a dedicated card is for OpenCL (video processing) and if the graphics drivers for the dedicated card are not good at something (like if you get screen tearing). Or if you want better power saving, in which case integrated graphics use a lot less energy.

I was originally going to get the I5 2500K, but then suddenly it didn't bundle with the motherboard, so I had to go a step up to get the $50 discount. Should I choose a different processor or go the AMD route?

Well, make sure that the motherboard you're looking at would have at least the same amount of fan ports that you get when purchasing a case. Somehow board manufacturers often omit those ports for no good reason. My board has 4 fan connectors, and finding one with that was rather difficult.

It doesn't say how many fan ports the motherboard has. It only says the case has 8 fan bays. Now what?

Yes, and GDDR3 is worse than GDDR5.

Well, how about this one?

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0386737

And if you want to create music, you need to make sure to have everything ready for that - can your keyboard interface with the computer directly? Using what connectors? Depending on that, you might need a dedicated sound card, possibly with hardware MIDI support.

So I have to check if the motherboard has midi ports? What's the deal with the sound card? I don't understand anything about that.

Well, for you, processor speed isn't really critical. It's good to have that, but it's not top priority. As for core amount versus core speed, if you have something highly threadable, then more cores is better than faster cores. For gaming, faster cores is more important, as games don't thread all that well. Audio software like Audacity seem to be lightly threaded as well. So you should probably stick with less cores with faster clock speeds for each instead.

I don't see any info on clock speed for processors, just for video cards.

[GreatEmerald]

I was originally going to get the I5 2500K, but then suddenly it didn't bundle with the motherboard, so I had to go a step up to get the $50 discount. Should I choose a different processor or go the AMD route?

Well, if it's cheaper that way, then stick to it. AMD doesn't have all that good processors right now, anyway.

It doesn't say how many fan ports the motherboard has. It only says the case has 8 fan bays. Now what?

As for the cases, I'd go with something in the middle between the two, if possible. I have a CoolerMaster CM690 case, and it's pretty cool (aside from a few issues). It came with 3 fans, for the reference. The main good thing about it is that most of the assembly doesn't require you to use screws. From the pictures I can see that the same can be said about the MSI case, but not about the other CoolerMaster case.

Well, how about this one?

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0386737

Yea, like I said, this one is fairly decent. It's nearly as good as my HD 4890, and I don't have problems with it even on new games.

So I have to check if the motherboard has midi ports? What's the deal with the sound card? I don't understand anything about that.

Well, start from telling us what type of a connector your piano keyboard has. Some of them use MIDI connectors, some of them use USB connectors, etc.

If it is a MIDI connector (DIN looks like a PS/2 connector), then you'll have to get a dedicated sound card, as integrated ones don't include that functionality. Or a MIDI to USB adapter. If it's already USB, then it means that the keyboard itself acts like an external dedicated sound card and then you won't need a dedicated sound card. A converter also acts like a dedicated sound card, although with fewer features.

I don't see any info on clock speed for processors, just for video cards.

Clock speed is the X in X GHz. Also simply called processor speed.

[mr.hackcrag]

I edited my computer parts post up there after Pol's & GE feedback. The only thing I have to choose from now is the motherboard and case (please help me ) Should I reconsider anything?

If it is a MIDI connector (DIN looks like a PS/2 connector), then you'll have to get a dedicated sound card, as integrated ones don't include that functionality. Or a MIDI to USB adapter. If it's already USB, then it means that the keyboard itself acts like an external dedicated sound card and then you won't need a dedicated sound card. A converter also acts like a dedicated sound card, although with fewer features.

It's an older keyboard and only has MIDI in/out. So my options are to buy a soundcard or buy a MIDI USB adapter? Which is the better choice?

[Clock speed is the X in X GHz. Also simply called processor speed.

If the 2500K gets bundled again, should I go with that one?

[GreatEmerald]

It's an older keyboard and only has MIDI in/out. So my options are to buy a soundcard or buy a MIDI USB adapter? Which is the better choice?

What sort of MIDI connector is it exactly? There can be different ones - a Game Port, various DIN connectors, or perhaps S/PDIF. Would be the best if you could find a picture of the precise connector that you have.

If the 2500K gets bundled again, should I go with that one?

Not the 2500K (it also uses high-end integrated graphics that would be useless to you), but rather something like i5-3570 (without any letter at the end).

[Pol]

That's mighty too much questions..


One by one I will try - without multiquote - to fight it off.

*Exhem*, what do you have against my WD Caviar Green? Although it's not my primary disk, but it's working just fine, even for 1080p recordings.

WD Green, that edition redefined the word blasphemy. These disks are solely created to be used in media PC, HTPC and weaker notebooks. Only. They are slow (see 5900rpm as a max), slow to spin, slow to seek, slow to check themselves for an error and therefore forbidden to use in RAID. Completely unsuitable to serve as a main drive as they will degrade whole system performance.

Because, even usually, the HDD is the slowest component in the PC, getting WD Green as a main one is a ridiculous idea.

The whole fuzz about them is marketing trick, understandable, as they generate high trading profit.

Deskstar is ok, just remember that today you are having only three hdd manufacturers: Saegate, WD & complementary Toshiba. The other ones are just brand names now.

Also, why such an opinion on the motherboards?

Biostar and ASrock are 'second grade' mb manufacturers. Cheap and first pick for an OEM PC and because of that you will get them in majority of (pre)built PC. It's better idea to indulge yourself with something of higher quality. Gigabyte, MSI or Asus are way to go.

Usually you can differ them by a longer warranty period provided.

Here are parts I'm considering

Processor:

Intel is the best bet, you may like to get till the frequence 3,6GHz, LGA1155, QuadCore and lots of cache. You don't need to pay extra for the VT-d technology, so i5-3570K fulfill these requirements.. The extra 'k' on the end means that this processor is unlocked and can be overclocked, it's also without vt-d support. (You don't need this. As long as you are not planning to precisely orchestrate many virtual machines inside your PC)

Don't wait for AMD.

GA-Z77-DS3H - Good Choice, you don't need more expensive model (Until you plan 3 VGA cards setup )

The AMD VGA cards (aka ATI) are after discount, the discount was worldwide just for lines 77xx, 78xx, 79xx. So they are a very good choice right now, even better than usually - that's a reason why I for this moment dismiss nvidia, where the situation is less certain.

Looking on the prices maybe the prices are not corrected yet for all models in your shop, so you may try to wait for a week or two. (Base models should be like that HD7750 ~99$, HD7700 ~119$, HD7850 ~209$, HD7870 ~249$)

Anyway HIS H775F1GD or Sapphire Technology 11202-00-20G or GigabyteGV-R775OC-1GI are good choices. (Still that shop is missing many models.)

Power Supply

- Good Choice, however this one is better in my opinion EarthWatts Green Series 650s. Safer to go, even if you probably need to order a power cord cable separately and it's not moddable.

Memory

The second one is easier to overclock, otherwise not much performance difference.

HDD

Yes, good choice.

Case

I don't know about MSI cases, they seems to be pretty and a bit overpriced. I would prefer these:

HAF912, Three Hundred, Scout. Personally I would take HAF912 and wouldn't solve it any further. But it's question of design and taste here, especially for the MSI cases.

You should consider not only Windows 7 PRO 64bits but also Better system coolers, including CPU cooler and perhaps a sound card for the midi, depends. I don't now the prices in USA but here you would be chardged upt to 60$. So you're likely overpaying a little.
On the other end you wold pay it in the case of prebuilt PC somewhere else. So custom computer is a better way to go. Would your friend dare to assemble the computer for you? (It's easy but not so easy)

- The hard drive... Eh, I wouldn't take that one. The Deskstars have very bad reputation from the past (hence their nickname "Deathstar"). Plus, any hard drives advertising that they support 6 Gb/s is pretty much fake. At 7200 RPM, you can't achieve those speeds anyway. If you can find a cheaper, more reliable hard drive with 3 Gb/s, use that. Save those SATA 6 Gb/s ports for SSDs - those can utilise it, and they are really, really fast.

I would take this one with no hesitation. It's older series hence the excellent price. Standard warranty 3yrs. You aren't likely to save anything with buying just SATA2 drive. And with all honesty for all HDD the performance difference between SATA1/2/3 is almot the nill. The SATA 3 is here for SSD drives - there's shine - but otherwise it's SATA2 backward compatible.
Deathstar - that's very long time ago. All major manufacturers had similar botches, so it's better to put it where it does belong - to the history books. Also originally Hitachi = IBM, so it were the best drives on the market, also for a long time. (Nowaday Hitachi = WD)

For a VGA card, apart of performance, is important to decide if you want one or two DVI ports. Or you can live with one monitor per DVI, one per VGA and eventually one per HDMI. (It's not exactly like that from the point of the ports, just a note.)

GreatEmerald wrote:
Alternatively, depending on your workload, you could drop the dedicated card..
Will it be able to play games?

Not much. I wouldn't think of it. You would be limited to titles with just a low acceleration. (H1/2/3/4 yes H5/6 - no) Dediated card is highly recommended.

POTD - Our Picture of the Day

It doesn't say how many fan ports the motherboard has. It only says the case has 8 fan bays. Now what?

3+1 for CPU, it's in the linked specs

Edit:
For enhanced cooling you may also consider these two:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0274207
http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0311405

[GreatEmerald]

WD Green, that edition redefined the word blasphemy. These disks are solely created to be used in media PC, HTPC and weaker notebooks. Only. They are slow (see 5900rpm as a max), slow to spin, slow to seek, slow to check themselves for an error and therefore forbidden to use in RAID. Completely unsuitable to serve as a main drive as they will degrade whole system performance.

Because, even usually, the HDD is the slowest component in the PC, getting WD Green as a main one is a ridiculous idea.

The whole fuzz about them is marketing trick, understandable, as they generate high trading profit.

Mine spins up to 7200 just fine. And in my opinion, RAID is stupid to begin with. That's what intelligent file systems and manual backup is for!

That said, I never used it as a main disk, but it's wonderful as an extension disk. It did have a problem with bad sectors, but I fixed that with a low-level format, and the same thing happened to another WD Blue that we have here, so it's nothing unusual.

Biostar and ASrock are 'second grade' mb manufacturers. Cheap and first pick for an OEM PC and because of that you will get them in majority of (pre)built PC. It's better idea to indulge yourself with something of higher quality. Gigabyte, MSI or Asus are way to go.

Usually you can differ them by a longer warranty period provided.

Second grade? What? How are they different? Warranty is nice, but I don't see what issues can be had with those motherboards. The chipset used is the same, after all. Also, all of the motherboards that I have had that came with prebuilt PCs were Gigabyte.

The extra 'k' on the end means that this processor is unlocked and can be overclocked, it's also without vt-d support. (You don't need this. As long as you are not planning to precisely orchestrate many virtual machines inside your PC)

The extra "k" also means that it has high-end graphics. So if there are no plans to overclock (and there is absolutely no need to with a processor that strong) and no need for strong integrated graphics, choose something cheaper, if there is anything. Processors are expensive, so you could save a considerable amount here.

The second one is easier to overclock, otherwise not much performance difference.

And, once again, in this case overclocking is not needed. Memory overclocking will not give you much in performance gains, anyway, just heighten the risk of a failure.

I don't know about MSI cases, they seems to be pretty and a bit overpriced. I would prefer these:

HAF912, Three Hundred, Scout. Personally I would take HAF912 and wouldn't solve it any further. But it's question of design and taste here, especially for the MSI cases.

Yea, CoolerMaster and Antec have a good history. The Antec case there doesn't have removable drive brackets, however, and those are pretty useful, as you don't need screws to hold the hard drive(s) in place and so it's easier to clean them.

You should consider not only Windows 7 PRO 64bits but also Better system coolers, including CPU cooler and perhaps a sound card for the midi, depends. I don't now the prices in USA but here you would be chardged upt to 60$. So you're likely overpaying a little.

Win7 Home Premium is more than enough for his usage. And there is no need for any extra cooling solutions, either, for those usage cases. If you don't plan to overclock and use tools like SpeedFan/lm_sensors, there is no need for anything like that.

Personally, I do have an additional Scythe cooler, but that's because one of the fans that came with my case was very noisy. That said, I still use the noisy fan, but it's plugged into a controllable port, so it's really silent most of the time now. I also wouldn't trust a "universal CPU cooler", especially since a CPU cooler comes with a CPU anyway. It's not cost-effective to throw out a perfectly good, genuine cooler.

[Pol]

Mine spins up to 7200 just finel

You don't have IntelliPower then. My bad you don't need to. That doesn't change anything on that that overall these drives are worse performers.

RAID is stupid to begin with. That's what intelligent file systems and manual backup is for!

Depends. Anyway the fact that disk is capable of working in RAID testify its quality.

That said, I never used it as a main disk, but it's wonderful as an extension disk.

It's all about performance. As for the second drive it really doesn't matter.

How are they different?

Material & Design & Warranty.

And, once again, in this case overclocking is not needed. Memory overclocking will not give you much in performance gains, anyway, just heighten the risk of a failure.

I'm merely stating the difference. However your statement it's untrue. Memory overclock can gain you a significant performance difference. There's good if memory supports XMP profiles.

Win7 Home Premium is more than enough for his usage..

How so? You have more information? I think that I outlined difference for a home users between Pre and Pro version several times. The most important is XP virtualization support, including xp license. Very useful for some older but not archaical programs.

It's not cost-effective to throw out a perfectly good, genuine cooler.

? So in order to save about 2$ it's better to expose yourself to unnecessary noise and risk higher failure of overheating other components in your PC? I would always recommend better coolers for home PC, for silence and longevity.
It's a different case for PC used in the offices. There it's not so much an issue and you can live without.
However a good cooling solution also makes difference between prebuild PC and a customized one.

[GreatEmerald]

It's all about performance. As for the second drive it really doesn't matter.

True, but for the best performance, the primary drive should be an SSD anyway.

Material & Design & Warranty.

OK... I have never had any issues with the used materials. If you don't expose the board to the extremes, there is little chance of it failing. As for the design, do you mean the layout? In that case, it's just best to see what fits into your case.

However your statement it's untrue. Memory overclock can gain you a significant performance difference. There's good if memory supports XMP profiles.

Hardly, in real world benchmarks:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/quad-chan ... 347-8.html
The differences are statistically insignificant, whereas the price definitely is.

How so? You have more information? I think that I outlined difference for a home users between Pre and Pro version several times. The most important is XP virtualization support, including xp license. Very useful for some older but not archaical programs.

Yes, that's the only difference. But I don't have a single game that doesn't run natively on Win7 WOW64. Even C&C First Decade works fine. Some programs, yes - if it's a 16-bit program, it may need virtualisation. However, it's exceedingly rare to find such programs, and I highly doubt that it will be needed in this case. Save the money instead of throwing it around, I'd say.

? So in order to save about 2$ it's better to expose yourself to unnecessary noise and risk higher failure of overheating other components in your PC? I would always recommend better coolers for home PC, for silence and longevity.
It's a different case for PC used in the offices. There it's not so much an issue and you can live without.
However a good cooling solution also makes difference between prebuild PC and a customized one.

Noise? Failure? It's completely quiet and I have never, ever had any failures due to CPU fans. If anything, a non-genuine fan could cause more problems. And, once again, if you use SpeedFan/lm_sensors and don't overclock, there is no need to worry about noise or failures.

[Pol]

True, but for the best performance, the primary drive should be an SSD anyway.

That wasn't in the original question. If you want to go for a 1TB SSD hdd you are very rich and I can only envy you.

OK... I have never had any issues with the used materials. If you don't expose the board to the extremes, there is little chance of it failing. As for the design, do you mean the layout? In that case, it's just best to see what fits into your case.

There are many problems and you don't need to "expose the board to the extremes" sometimes is just enough to mount it inside and you will notice them. ATX/mATX layout isn't design. We are talking about mb design - ie circuits design, slots, arrangement, used capacitors, phases, heating zones, etc...

Hardly, in real world benchmarks:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/quad-chan ... 347-8.html
The differences are statistically insignificant, whereas the price definitely is.

That linked test is useless. As well as further discussion on that topic as crucial information of what to choose were already provided.

Noise? Failure? It's completely quiet and I have never, ever had any failures due to CPU fans. If anything, a non-genuine fan could cause more problems. And, once again, if you use SpeedFan/lm_sensors and don't overclock, there is no need to worry about noise or failures.

It seems that you haven't enough computers in your hands and judge everything on your own PCs experience. That's not enough.

Also "completely quite" = 0dB. Which is impossible in your case. You're hardly able to get under 6dB. In your case it will be most likely around 25dB - which is fairly noise.

The fact that you don't sense the computer noise doesn't mean it's not here. Only that you're ignoring it. If it'so, that's good for you but don't enforce it to other people. You may change your opinion at later age too, saving your ears.

This processor is capable of 3,8GHz in the Turbo mode. If that will happen for a longer period of a time, the stock fan will not be able to disperse the heat and you're gonna to heating up other components. Where especially PSU and HDD can be pretty sensitive on it. And it will become noise, you can bet on it!

[GreatEmerald]

That wasn't in the original question. If you want to go for a 1TB SSD hdd you are very rich and I can only envy you.

Sure, that was a general remark. Though a small SSD and a large secondary HDD is not that bad of a choice, even these days.

There are many problems and you don't need to "expose the board to the extremes" sometimes is just enough to mount it inside and you will notice them. ATX/mATX layout isn't design. We are talking about mb design - ie circuits design, slots, arrangement, used capacitors, phases, heating zones, etc...

Well, I never had ASRock and all, so I can't really say much about that. Just that I don't see what could go wrong either way.

That linked test is useless. As well as further discussion on that topic as crucial information of what to choose were already provided.

Yeah right. Might as well say "No comment"

It seems that you haven't enough computers in your hands and judge everything on your own PCs experience. That's not enough.

Also "completely quite" = 0dB. Which is impossible in your case. You're hardly able to get under 6dB. In your case it will be most likely around 25dB - which is fairly noise.

The fact that you don't sense the computer noise doesn't mean it's not here. Only that you're ignoring it. If it'so, that's good for you but don't enforce it to other people. You may change your opinion at later age too, saving your ears.

This processor is capable of 3,8GHz in the Turbo mode. If that will happen for a longer period of a time, the stock fan will not be able to disperse the heat and you're gonna to heating up other components. Where especially PSU and HDD can be pretty sensitive on it. And it will become noise, you can bet on it!

Now you're just trying to pick on words. Yes, it's not digital silence, but it's good enough. Really, really good enough, as all that I can hear is a barely audible hum when it's idle. It's noisier when it's on load, of course, but it's not often on a lot of load. And that ensures that it won't burn out. Once again, I have to mention SpeedFan - it automatically controls fans to get the best compromise between volume and cooling. It has no problems controlling the CPU fan, too. And if I ever get fed up with the noise (which I can assure you I won't), I can just set the settings to a lower value.

Also, if it becomes noisy, sure, then you can buy another cooler to replace the malfunctioning one. But buying an additional one before even hearing how the machine sounds is just not sensible at all.