Patch 1.3 Launches, Black Hole Replaced

[Kalah]

Blasphemer!!

[hellegennes]

Ok boss; whatever you say boss; boss you boss, boss.

[Kalah]

[ywhtptgtfo]

>Oh, you're one of those...



Yeah, I am one of those who would rather have no plot in a game if having a plot meant an increased likelihood of memory corruption.



>Besides the fact that you and those 2 guys where immune to it on account of surviving malachor?



Maybe you should ask yourself what destroyed Malachor V...



>Dude, the best manipulations are those that you know are manipulations and yet still work... i mean everyone was talking about Kreia being shady half the time...



Yeah... with her mentioning that she was a Sith Lord in the middle of a trip to a slum planet with the PC taking the relevation like any other bit of trivia. Yeah, it's so totally smart of her to trick everyone in the end because everyone else is like "oh we know she's evil but we are still going to be sheeps. yippie!".

[vicheron]

>There were extensive debates in the Obsidian Entertainment forums on many aspects of the plot with active participation from developers... so it's not like I played the game for 1 hour and made the verdict. Here's a good read from Wookiepedia, which is about as "canon" as it can get for Star Wars:



http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Traya



What does there being extensive debates on the Obsidian forums have to do with you not knowing about the game? How is your awareness of that change the fact that you clearly didn't pay much attention to the story of KotoR2?



The fact that you point to the Wookiepedia entry on Kreia is just more proof of your ignorance. Obsidian has no say in what is canon and what is not canon. In fact, many of the ideas established by Obsidian were either ignored, erased, or distorted.



>Since KOTOR 2 sucked, I don't really want to get into a full debate on it. But here's one point I felt like addressing above all:



I suppose because he's this super deux-ex blackhole, he can pull a force choke on that blind wannabe Sith girl and yet not be connected to the force. It's like a mage who absorbs mana, can cast lightning bolt, but is not connected to magic itself. Yeah... that totally makes sense... even in a fantasy setting.



First of all, no one ever said that Nihilus wasn't connected to the Force at all. He is a hole in the Force because he survived being cut off from the Force and then regained that connection. Kreia's power wouldn't work on Nihilus not because he is completely cut off from the Force but because he has already survived it and it is the source of his hunger.



Second, this kind of paradoxical idea is pretty common in fantasy. In a lot of fiction, the concept of oblivion is given some kind of representation or intelligence. Look at the whole "Blackest Night" arc in the Green Lantern comics. Look at the "God of Death" in the Half-Dead campaign in Heroes 4. Look at D&D, especially the Planescape and Far Realm stuff.



>Yeah... with her mentioning that she was a Sith Lord in the middle of a trip to a slum planet with the PC taking the relevation like any other bit of trivia. Yeah, it's so totally smart of her to trick everyone in the end because everyone else is like "oh we know she's evil but we are still going to be sheeps. yippie!".



So did you miss all the parts where the other characters actually tried to break Kreia's influence over them and fail?



Did you also miss the fact that the other characters had dark secrets too? Atton used to be an assassin working for the Sith, Bao-Dur created the Mass Shadow Generator, Visas is Nihilus's apprentice, HK-47 was built by Revan and killed who knows how many Jedi for the Sith, G0-T0 is one of the biggest crime bosses in the galaxy, etc. The Exile her/himself was responsible for the destruction of Malachor V. You're not dealing with a bunch of boy scouts here. What exactly did you expect them to do about Kreia beyond what they already did? Especially considering how they don't have any real proof of Kreia being a Sith Lord.



Also, even though Kreia always hints at having a connection to the Sith, she doesn't actually reveal the fact that she was a Sith Lord until much later in the game.
Edited on Sat, Apr 21 2012, 07:18 by vicheron

[parcaleste]

[ywhtptgtfo]

> The fact that you point to the Wookiepedia entry on Kreia is just more proof of your ignorance. Obsidian has no say in what is canon and what is not canon. In fact, many of the ideas established by Obsidian were either ignored, erased, or distorted.



Except discrepancies and potentially non-canon perspectives tend to be documented. Is it infallible? Probably not, but a lot of its contents on the issue are quite consistent with what was being discussed in those old threads in the OE official forums.



>Second, this kind of paradoxical idea is pretty common in fantasy



Yes sure... except the conjectures you made were not really substantiated. I am not the one who advocated the view that a wound in the force equates to being disconnected from the force. I don't think the game made such an assertion either. It appears to be an artifact of your creation that also happens to be not making much sense.



>Did you also miss the fact that the other characters had dark secrets too? Atton used to be an assassin working for the Sith, Bao-Dur created the Mass Shadow Generator, Visas is Nihilus's apprentice, HK-47 was built by Revan and killed who knows how many Jedi for the Sith, G0-T0 is one of the biggest crime bosses in the galaxy, etc.



The only example that fits your description that I remember is Atton who did get owned by the old lady. But the rest? We kind of know almost everything about that blind girl and big floating ball quite early on and I don't quite remember HK-47 being ever blackmailed about his previous actions (if anything, he'd be bragging about that).

[ThunderTitan]

>>Yeah, I am one of those who would rather have no plot in a game if having a plot meant an increased likelihood of memory corruption.<<

Thing is, NWN1 had a plot... and it was annoying... you may bitch about Kreia, but elf paladin lady was an idiot, and her boyfriend worse, and all i could think of was that if the game didn't stop me i could have avoided everything by slapping sense into them early in the story...

But really, nwn2 with patches ran fine... and you'd think by now you know not to buy a
ny game when it comes out and wait for patches...

>>Maybe you should ask yourself what destroyed Malachor V...<<

The power of plot device...

Still, it was implied that the real reason why Nihilus and that power killed was because those ppl where unwilling/unable to live without the Force... something the PC could, which is why he/she survived Malachor...

>>Yeah... with her mentioning that she was a Sith Lord in the middle of a trip to a slum planet with the PC taking the relevation like any other bit of trivia. Yeah, it's so totally smart of her to trick everyone in the end because everyone else is like "oh we know she's evil but we are still going to be sheeps. yippie!".<<

Frankly any other reaction would have made the PC look like an idiot for not figuring it out...

Don't look at it like if she made ppl think she was pretending and people bought it, but as if she was telling them the truth and that's what made them all be affected... it's just that no one figured that she wanted to kill the Force...

[ywhtptgtfo]

>Thing is, NWN1 had a plot... and it was annoying... you may ***** about Kreia, but elf paladin lady was an idiot, and her boyfriend worse, and all i could think of was that if the game didn't stop me i could have avoided everything by slapping sense into them early in the story...



I agree... the story sucked for NWN1, but the game shines because it's quite revolutionary for its time and, IMO, has the best UI design and possibly the best-implemented D&D platform.



The expansions do feature much better stories though (i.e. HotU).



>Frankly any other reaction would have made the PC look like an idiot for not figuring it out...



I think she should've hidden that fact until the around the time she killed the Jedi's.



>Still, it was implied that the real reason why Nihilus and that power killed was because those ppl where unwilling/unable to live without the Force... something the PC could, which is why he/she survived Malachor...



Actually... It is commonly stated that the PC is especially sensitive to force-sensitives around him (more so than typical Jedi's) and that the death of so many of them in Malachor V caused him to cut his connection. At the same time, what destroyed Malachor V is a device that creates strong gravitational distortions.



These are two different concepts and the game has never said one must cut off from the force in order to survive the battle of Malachor V.

[Avonu]

>>>the story sucked for NWN1, but the game shines because it's quite revolutionary for its time and, IMO, has the best UI design and possibly the best-implemented D&D platform.

Agree. The story is not bad however, it is bad because of how it was told. The same story In KotOR (even some dialogues are the same!) does not suck, but it is because the plot was told in different manner.

>>>Actually... It is commonly stated that the PC is especially sensitive to force-sensitives around him (more so than typical Jedi's) and that the death of so many of them in Malachor V caused him to cut his connection.

Her

[ywhtptgtfo]

>Her



As far as I am concerned, it's a "he". I played as a male Exile and I don't care if the canon made him a girl with a corny name to appease feminists out there.