Is Inferno outclassed by Castle?

[pikeman93]

I've noticed a striking resemblance - everything that inferno can do, castle can do it better.

pikemen/halb >>> imps/familiar
archer/marksmen >>>>>>>> gogs/magogs
hell hound/cerebrus < griffin/royalgriffin (it's very very close though)
crusaders >> horned demons
zealots > pit lords
champions = efreet sultans
archangels >>> archdemons

Also, knights > demoniacs, and clerics = heretics, but most people pick might

So basically, would you use the same tactics with inferno as you do with castle? Inferno has a much more lenient build order though, so that's probably the only advantage that it has over castle.

[Tress]

Pretty much so. Castle in general have on of most powerful units in game(and before sod also cheap), while inferno units are generally lacking apart from some specific things like pit lords(discussed in precious topic), efreets(generally good unit/immune from inferno) and devil (no rettaliation/flight - unbeatable army if not for shooters/fast flyers due to wait/retreat tactic ), other units are quite meh...
There are of course strategies that involve imp specialist rushing , but that's true for many level 1 units.

[Salamandre]

If you really insist compare units one vs one, which is completely the wrong way, then castle can not do better always. It depends of sooo many parameters that any comparison is useless.

First, if large map and many towns , inferno is becoming a little necropolis because of demons.

Second, while archangels are great late game and god-like if clone, you can win vs 1 million archangels with one devil and force field.

Third, it has great chance to get armageddon and you have a fast immune to fire unit.

All towns are great.

[pikeman93]

^^lol. If the millions of archangels can't get to your single archdevil because of your force field, then wouldn't that mean that your archdevil couldn't get to them either?

And force field has like 5% chance of it being in your mage guild, so I guess it's not such a great idea to rely on force field if you want to take over dragon utopias?

[Tress]

Well archangels is not best example due to their high speed and necessity of ff(still this tactic is there considering you have them), but Archdevils can take out limitless number of enemies that cant shoot and are slower than them(and there are alot of those- behemoths name one), providing there is no morale bonus. Of course it's somewhat cheesy and perhaps unintended mechanic(it most certainly doesn't work in homm5 due to initiative scale), but it's what makes inferno viable. All top 3 units they have are good but not spectacular from first glance, but each of them have associated tactics that can change game considering you are willing to exploit them - (raising demon army, using Armageddon/efreet combo , kite extensively with devils)

[Pitsu]

So basically, would you use the same tactics with inferno as you do with castle?

No, they play very differently. Castle is much about brute strength, inferno - as fitting for devils - more into exploiting weaknesses of enemy.

archer/marksmen >>>>>>>> gogs/magogs

In which way is an archer better than gog? Agree that double shot of marksman is generally more worth than the superior stats and fireball of magog.

[Banedon]

Aren't Archangels faster than Archdevils?

You can't compare Inferno units to Castle units directly because their build trees are different. Inferno can and should expect to have Efreet Sultans by the end of the first week; Castle will not have Cavaliers, let alone Champions. 6 Efreet Sultans in the second week walks all over the map annihilating everything. Castle can creep fast too, but Inferno has it even better (imo). If the game goes on, there's also Demon raising to consider.

No doubt Castle is strong, but Inferno's quite solid too. I wouldn't say all towns are great though, because some are clearly weaker than others (and some are overpowered, like Conflux).

[Tress]

archer/marksmen >>>>>>>> gogs/magogs

In which way is an archer better than gog? Agree that double shot of marksman is generally more worth than the superior stats and fireball of magog.

Ye but have to take into account fact that if we throw aside fireball and dual shot, but take into consideration that marksmen breed faster (7 vs 8 per week of base growth) and are cheaper then weekly production is of roughly same strength. Now we can add their abilities and get almost twice as much power thanks to two shot thing. Fireball on other hand often do more harm than good as often your units must be in close proximity to fight enemies that are often intended target. It's good only when enemy have tactics and it forms its army to cover archers.

[BoardGuest808888]

Well, come to think of, do you really think if the enemy have Tactic, he/she'll actually form a clump guarding the Marksmen when he/she fought against Magogs ?

Against such, the choice might be either you left your marksmen alone unguarded, or have them and whoever guarding them being blasted together.

For a unit to have such control over enemy's tactic, you might count on its worth I think.

Stat-to-Stat unit comparisons were never a good idea. Same as playing a specific town just the same as any other town.

[cjlee]

I strongly agree with you Pitsu.

Most inferno units, one on one, are indeed outmatched by a comparable tier Castle unit.

However, inferno players are expected to be devils - sneaky, using tactics to exploit their enemies' weaknesses. Their units are more tailored to overcoming specific enemy strengths.

Magog is like a mini-lich. It prevents enemies from bunching their units together. And even if there is no Magog, Inferno players often get fireball or meteor shower.

Cerberus is faster and cheaper than a Hydra and has the same powers.

Consider this: Inferno is the only town with two units that cannot be retaliated against.

Like Dungeon, the top 2 tiers are flyers. It also can make use of Armageddon bomb, and at an earlier time. You get Efreet Sultans long before Dragons and they are faster/cheaper than Red Dragons, so Armageddon strategy works faster.

I don't play Inferno well, and I suspect 'the bad guys' are not supposed to win easily. But whoever can play inferno well is probably a better player.

So basically, would you use the same tactics with inferno as you do with castle?

No, they play very differently. Castle is much about brute strength, inferno - as fitting for devils - more into exploiting weaknesses of enemy.

archer/marksmen >>>>>>>> gogs/magogs

In which way is an archer better than gog? Agree that double shot of marksman is generally more worth than the superior stats and fireball of magog.

[Panda Tar]

Consider this: Inferno is the only town with two units that cannot be retaliated against.

As also it's the only town with a unit that can hit their own, save efreets. Magogs explosion must be taken in consideration if you send in your units into melee battle. They're the only ranged units and may come to no use depending on the chosen strategy.

[GreatEmerald]

As also it's the only town with a unit that can hit their own, save efreets.

No, they hit efreeti, too. I keep forgetting that and my efreeti keep dying...

[cjlee]

I don't understand! Why would you target to hit your own units? Just aim to the side or something. I've almost never hit my own units with Magogs.

It's really unwise for your enemies to cluster together when fighting against Inferno. What does a name like Inferno tell you anyway? Fireball, Inferno, Meteor Shower - their signature spells. I'm usually more worried about hitting my own units with spells.

The Magogs don't really kill a lot; they just scare enemies. Most of the time my Magogs exist to attract turret fire - not as if they are a game changer. Cerberi are very big damage dealers, especially with bless, so I'm most concerned with keeping as many as possible alive so that they are more lethal in late game.

But the favorite spell that every Inferno player must dream of is... Expert Berserk! If your enemies cluster together and you get to cast a single Berserk on all of them at the same time... battle won! Works awesomely well against Fortress and Stronghold especially. The only faction that doesn't fear Berserk is Conflux... but then again, Conflux is probably tailored to be more powerful than any other faction anyway!

As also it's the only town with a unit that can hit their own, save efreets.

No, they hit efreeti, too. I keep forgetting that and my efreeti keep dying...

[adam77]

I don't understand! Why would you target to hit your own units? Just aim to the side or something. I've almost never hit my own units with Magogs.

I don't think magogs can attack a certain hex on the battlefield (as you can do with fireball spell), they can attack only creatures.

But the favorite spell that every Inferno player must dream of is... Expert Berserk! If your enemies cluster together and you get to cast a single Berserk on all of them at the same time... battle won! Works awesomely well against Fortress and Stronghold especially. The only faction that doesn't fear Berserk is Conflux... but then again, Conflux is probably tailored to be more powerful than any other faction anyway!

Expert berserk can be a winner no matter what your faction is.
But of course not only conflux is who does not fear it. Also necropolis and (if the hero has expert water magic) possibly tower (dispels or cures expert berserk for 3 mana).

[Panda Tar]

As also it's the only town with a unit that can hit their own, save efreets.

No, they hit efreeti, too. I keep forgetting that and my efreeti keep dying...

Gee, even worse. It's bee so long I played them. One thing I didn't like in inferno was the cost of their units, worse was seeing them lost due my own silly monkeys causing havoc.

[Tress]

I don't understand! Why would you target to hit your own units? Just aim to the side or something. I've almost never hit my own units with Magogs.

It's really unwise for your enemies to cluster together when fighting against Inferno. What does a name like Inferno tell you anyway? Fireball, Inferno, Meteor Shower - their signature spells. I'm usually more worried about hitting my own units with spells.

The Magogs don't really kill a lot; they just scare enemies. Most of the time my Magogs exist to attract turret fire - not as if they are a game changer. Cerberi are very big damage dealers, especially with bless, so I'm most concerned with keeping as many as possible alive so that they are more lethal in late game.

But the favorite spell that every Inferno player must dream of is... Expert Berserk! If your enemies cluster together and you get to cast a single Berserk on all of them at the same time... battle won! Works awesomely well against Fortress and Stronghold especially. The only faction that doesn't fear Berserk is Conflux... but then again, Conflux is probably tailored to be more powerful than any other faction anyway!

Think there wasn't possibility to target unoccupied hex like in homm4 cyclops. Also unlike liches they harm own units just fine, thus making fireball abilitie somewhat questionable. If we count times it was useful or harmful I am not sure what's more.

[Salamandre]

I don't think Berserk should ever be mentioned. First, any faction can learn it, maps are big, multiple towns, fire easy to get. Secondly, it is the MOST LAME and unbalanced spell ever, and should be banned for game health sake.
There is no inferno vs castle, but berserk, game over.

You have it at expert level, the battles become totally uninteresting and no challenging at all. A spell to ban from any decent map because if casted on right target and at right moment, it has no counter.

If you can't counter it, then it is only matter of luck, and Heroes should be much deeper than just getting a spell.

[GreatEmerald]

Secondly, it is the MOST LAME and unbalanced spell ever, and should be banned for game health sake.

In before a rush of Phoenixes, Magic Elementals and Energy Elementals.

[Salamandre]

Why magic elementals? They are quite bad creatures, not receptive to spells.

Phoenix are fast and have a good growth, but they are HP weak. I don't remember anyone complaining Conflux was unbeatable in multiplayer. A good town, but not the king of all. It was only recently banned because people feared hit and run and too long early battles with sprites. Except the overpowered grail, but hard to get in MP, there is not much to fear from.

And in singleplayer, conflux is the weakest race because of spell immunities and other not receptive abilities. You can't keep them alive.

[Bandobras Took]

Conflux the weakest race? Did it become April Fool's when I wasn't looking?