Then there's no reason for you to complain about what I said.Corlagon wrote:I know there is a good argument that they don't count as real characters.
Tavern Heroes
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark
You're contradicting yourself, saying about fact-inventing when you just said you know there is a good argument.Corlagon wrote:Maybe, but I just like to contest fact-inventing
OFFTOPIC: On the note of fact inventing, here is March of the Undead, the second scenario of Playing With Fire campaign from AB. Check out the Rumors section of the map, specifically rumors titled "Dragon's Blood"
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark
Nah, I'm just suggesting be careful not to mislead when what you write is a postulate and not a fact, that's just spreading faulty lore - I had the same bad habit not long ago, as you kindly point out 
It's not contradictory to come up with or agree with a good theory while realising it isn't necessarily the truth.
It's not contradictory to come up with or agree with a good theory while realising it isn't necessarily the truth.
I guess there's no conflict here, then.
By the way, do you think on this subject yourself. Do you consider the plot lacking heroes from H1-2 canonical charcters?
By the way, do you think on this subject yourself. Do you consider the plot lacking heroes from H1-2 canonical charcters?
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark
I used to think the same way as you do (exclude those who don't reappear in the plot and keep the rest), but not any more. Even though some have no story, I consider all of the Enroth "revamp" hero/NPCs just as valid as the Ashan ones. Including the duplicated Maximus and Kastore.
I believe there's a good reason as to why these similar characters keep cropping up on each world, but if there is one it'll probably be revealed in time
I believe there's a good reason as to why these similar characters keep cropping up on each world, but if there is one it'll probably be revealed in time
Hm, but wouldn't that make toomuch namesakes?
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark
Tavern Heroes
The Seymour portrait from World of Xeen and the Kastore portrait from Heroes 1 & 2 are the same. What's up with that?
The original Kastore character from Isles of Terra and the Kastore from MM7 look more similar, except he underwent the change from blue skinned to white skinned.
Here's a quote from the Kastore page on the M&M Wiki: "A character named Kastore appears as a playable Warlock hero in Heroes I and II, utilising the portrait of Seymour from World of Xeen. His presence here is non-canonical, as the Ultimate Adventurers did not reach Enroth until a decade after the game's events. Although, it is also likely that this is an entirely different Kastore, much like the second Crag Hack to appear along with the Ultimate Adventurers."
The original Kastore character from Isles of Terra and the Kastore from MM7 look more similar, except he underwent the change from blue skinned to white skinned.
Here's a quote from the Kastore page on the M&M Wiki: "A character named Kastore appears as a playable Warlock hero in Heroes I and II, utilising the portrait of Seymour from World of Xeen. His presence here is non-canonical, as the Ultimate Adventurers did not reach Enroth until a decade after the game's events. Although, it is also likely that this is an entirely different Kastore, much like the second Crag Hack to appear along with the Ultimate Adventurers."
Actually, in the cutscenes Kastore's skin tone is similiar to his portait in MM3, so it's more of a matter of graphical and art style difference (which is big) between MM3 and MM7.
Actually, it would be very redundant to integrate all the Tavern heroes from H1-2 as namesake characters in Enroth. H1-2 were "TBS anthology" in a way. Random town names were names of game cities and castles from MM 1-5, same with recruitable heroes. It's just the tribute to the original games. Even in H3-4 recruitable heroes' presence in the campaigns isn't canon in the sense that they are in the different lands and places at the moment. Sort of same situation here.
[IIRC, NWC also said this directly in an interview about Heroes 1 or 2, but I'm not entirely sure about that.]
The characters of Enroth who are namesakes of their "counterparts" from MM 1-5 are those who have role i nthe plot of these or following games. These are:
Alamar
Lord Kilburn (memeber of one of VARN 4 ruling dynasties)
Lord Haart
Agar
Falagar
Halon
Crag Hack
Luna
Fineous
Yog
Sandro
Gem
+ Atlas, who is the same Atlas of Olympus from MM5
But even so, in fanfiction, author could very well go the same way as NWC did with the above character - create namesake Enrothian characters from some of H1-2 recruitable heroes.
Actually, it would be very redundant to integrate all the Tavern heroes from H1-2 as namesake characters in Enroth. H1-2 were "TBS anthology" in a way. Random town names were names of game cities and castles from MM 1-5, same with recruitable heroes. It's just the tribute to the original games. Even in H3-4 recruitable heroes' presence in the campaigns isn't canon in the sense that they are in the different lands and places at the moment. Sort of same situation here.
[IIRC, NWC also said this directly in an interview about Heroes 1 or 2, but I'm not entirely sure about that.]
The characters of Enroth who are namesakes of their "counterparts" from MM 1-5 are those who have role i nthe plot of these or following games. These are:
Alamar
Lord Kilburn (memeber of one of VARN 4 ruling dynasties)
Lord Haart
Agar
Falagar
Halon
Crag Hack
Luna
Fineous
Yog
Sandro
Gem
+ Atlas, who is the same Atlas of Olympus from MM5
But even so, in fanfiction, author could very well go the same way as NWC did with the above character - create namesake Enrothian characters from some of H1-2 recruitable heroes.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark
"Legacy hero" is not a gameplay distinctionAvonu wrote:Why Lord Haart is in Tavern Heroes and not in Legacy and why you added Legacy section if all of them are Tavern Heroes?
Basically, all the Legacy heroes are Tavern heroes, i.e. can be recruited on any map by default.Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark
Other Heroes
I would like Ash to return and/or Sanya. In fact too many good heroes here, to pick up.
"We made it!"
The Archives | Collection of H3&WoG files | Older albeit still useful | CH Downloads
PC Specs: A10-7850K, FM2A88X+K, 16GB-1600, SSD-MLC-G3, 1TB-HDD-G3, MAYA44, SP10 500W Be Quiet
The Archives | Collection of H3&WoG files | Older albeit still useful | CH Downloads
PC Specs: A10-7850K, FM2A88X+K, 16GB-1600, SSD-MLC-G3, 1TB-HDD-G3, MAYA44, SP10 500W Be Quiet
@XEL II
I think you didn't understand me.
Why here, on CH page, Lord Haart is in Tavern Heroes section and not in Legacy Section? He was in MM2 and HoMM1-3 after all.
And second, why to create Legacy Section at all? All these heroes are, like you said, Tavern Heroes.
I understand this is only temporary page but isn't better to simple put heroes in their factions and do not create some Legacy and Tavern sections?
I think you didn't understand me.
Why here, on CH page, Lord Haart is in Tavern Heroes section and not in Legacy Section? He was in MM2 and HoMM1-3 after all.
And second, why to create Legacy Section at all? All these heroes are, like you said, Tavern Heroes.
I understand this is only temporary page but isn't better to simple put heroes in their factions and do not create some Legacy and Tavern sections?
Dunno, CH lists in Legacy Heroes section those heroes who were already described in the "Legacy heroes week", I suupose.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark
Other Heroes
This page is still a work in progress. Obviously, Lord Haart could be sorted under "legacy" heroes, but since he was made public along with the first tavern heroes and not with the current "legacy" heroes, I have not changed it.
I think the overall structure (when the page is finished) should be to list all the heroes sorted by alignment and not by any other designaton.
I think the overall structure (when the page is finished) should be to list all the heroes sorted by alignment and not by any other designaton.
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.
Other Heroes
Updated. What do you think of the current structure?
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.
Other Heroes
Shiva kinda looks like Nicole Kidman =P
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