Nicolai's fate *spoilers*

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 07:34

Continuity wrote:Earlier someone put "Raelag = Agrael!!!" as a topic and now "Nicolai = undead!". It would be nice to experience some plot twists without having them spoiled.

Sorry! I'm gonna change the title!

Kareeah Indaga · Unread postby **Kareeah Indaga** » 17 Apr 2006, 13:02

Gaidal Cain wrote:
I'm just saying that an idea that's not so original can still be told well. On the whole, (speaking for the culture I come from), we're a little too obssessed with "novelty" and "originality," often at the expense of quality and good storytelling.
I could live with an unoriginal plot, if told well. What I'm not really keen on is having a carbon copy of another plot- because then any quality in storyelling will be overshadowed by the thought of "why am I replaying the main H3 campaign?". Ubisoft has toldus that this world is supposed to be all new, so why couldn't they have found a new story to go with it? I'd much referred that they left the world alone and focused on creating a good story than what looks like the other way around,

I agree with Gaidal. And if they were going to copy-and-paste the H3 plot, couldn’t they have at least waited until Heroes VII so there was more buffer space in-between and it wasn’t quite so…obvious?

Bandobras Took · Unread postby **Bandobras Took** » 17 Apr 2006, 13:07

Kareeah Indaga wrote:
Gaidal Cain wrote:
I'm just saying that an idea that's not so original can still be told well. On the whole, (speaking for the culture I come from), we're a little too obssessed with "novelty" and "originality," often at the expense of quality and good storytelling.
I could live with an unoriginal plot, if told well. What I'm not really keen on is having a carbon copy of another plot- because then any quality in storyelling will be overshadowed by the thought of "why am I replaying the main H3 campaign?". Ubisoft has toldus that this world is supposed to be all new, so why couldn't they have found a new story to go with it? I'd much referred that they left the world alone and focused on creating a good story than what looks like the other way around,
I agree with Gaidal. And if they were going to copy-and-paste the H3 plot, couldn’t they have at least waited until Heroes VII so there was more buffer space in-between and it wasn’t quite so…obvious?

Ah. I'm expecting Isabel to ask the Necromancers to do it -- which would put a bit of a difference between this and H3.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 13:17

Bandobras Took wrote: Ah. I'm expecting Isabel to ask the Necromancers to do it -- which would put a bit of a difference between this and H3.

Judgeing by his death scene it all seems like a plot. He can't be healed, but raised? And i'm guessing that the Undead offer Isabel a deal to ress him as part of an alliance. I'm telling you, Sandro is behind it all again, that's why the story is so similar. He's a one-track mind lich. Or just wants to see if it would have worked the first time if that fool Vilmar wouldn't have ruined it.

QueenIsabel=QueenCatherine
Agrael/Raelag=LordHaart
Godric=Christian
DemonSovereign=LuciferKreegan
Nicolai=KingGryphonheart, with some Roland thrown in.

Guess they were deadly serious when they said it was gonna be more H3 that 4.

Thelonious · Unread postby **Thelonious** » 17 Apr 2006, 15:20

Anyone seen this? Just look at the text and you'll know what I mean.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 15:29

There's also an artifact named Sandro's something. And Lucretia's bio also mentions everybodies favorite Lich. And there wa a screenshot that had Christian as a hero name (no hero picture)!

Thelonious · Unread postby **Thelonious** » 17 Apr 2006, 19:01

ThunderTitan wrote:Guess they were deadly serious when they said it was gonna be more H3 that 4.

Hmm, I just hope you're wrong

. I'd hate to see the HoMM III story again, it's like a Dutch saying:

'Je moet geen ouwe koeien uit de sloot halen'

(Freely translated: Don't take any old cows out of the gutter

)

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 20:43

I doubt it's gonna be the exact same story, but it does seem to have alot in common.

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 17 Apr 2006, 22:14

Giving heroes the same names they had in past games doesn't mean that the story is the same.
I saw that some people like some heroes like Crag Hack, Sandro and Nicolai. And those names are back now.

Also, finding a one little similiarity betewen the stories doesn't mean that the story is similiar. Seeing that Nival/Ubisoft made the world with a good lore alredy shows that story will be good and perhaps even deep.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 22:24

Look again big uncorporeal eye. It's not just one similarity, it's the turning into undead, defeating the demons and then probably fighting against a betrayal by the undead (you really think the undead won't betray Isabel?).

And i really hate when people keep saying that the story in H3 RoE was shallow. Just because you didn't read the text doesn't mean it wasn't there.

And Nicolai hasn't a hero, he was just mentioned as Catherine's son that she left behind.

Bandobras Took · Unread postby **Bandobras Took** » 17 Apr 2006, 22:28

ThunderTitan wrote:Look again big uncorporeal eye. It's not just one similarity, it's the turning into undead, defeating the demons and then probably fighting against a betrayal by the undead (you really think the undead won't betray Isabel?).

Well, as soon as they included the Necropolis, it was a bit inevitable that somebody was going to be undead -- in H2, it was legions of peasants, as I recall.

It's possible, though, that they'll be working around the idea of the Haven "Falling" -- that Isabel's vengeance drive will harden the humans to the point where the Inquisitors will be living up to their name -- in which case there might not be a betrayal, and it will be up to our good friends the Sylvan faction to save the day.

There is more than one possibility from the elements we've seen, in other words.

And what if there's a final unlockable campaign that lets you choose your side? Maybe conquering the demons won't even be in there!

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 22:36

Why won't i be suprised if you chose between Heaven and Necropolis!

I'm not saying its a bad thing, just that for all their talk about "a better story" they're using elements from H3. And "throng of peasants" isn't the same as "important person to the female lead".

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 17 Apr 2006, 22:43

ThunderTitan wrote:Look again big uncorporeal eye. It's not just one similarity, it's the turning into undead, defeating the demons and then probably fighting against a betrayal by the undead (you really think the undead won't betray Isabel?).

And i really hate when people keep saying that the story in H3 RoE was shallow. Just because you didn't read the text doesn't mean it wasn't there.

And Nicolai hasn't a hero, he was just mentioned as Catherine's son that she left behind.

Sorry for my eye, but your thunder hit it.
Unded ALWYS betray. It would look stupid if somewhere they were respectful.
Defeating demons: What should demons do and humans do? Plant trees together and hunt impd? It is heaven and hell!! Of course they will fight one another!
And when did I say that story in H3roe was shallow? I think it is the best. AB had only one campaign and SOD storyline would better fit into H4 because of its heroes fighting on battlefields (why would school want to lose 1000 lives for a stupid barbarian?). And GS would better fit in H3. H4std has the 2nd place but it would be better if the stories were better connected. And WoW wins the the first place from back

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 17 Apr 2006, 22:46

ThunderTitan wrote:Why won't i be suprised if you chose between Heaven and Necropolis!

I'm not saying its a bad thing, just that for all their talk about "a better story" they're using elements from H3. And "throng of peasants" isn't the same as "important person to the female lead".

Look at this:
Powerful necromancers kill a king who was a great tactitian. Which idiot woudn't ressurect him and make him their king!?

When you make a story, it must be logical. Else you can drop the quallity of unique story.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 22:54

Sauron wrote: Sorry for my eye, but your thunder hit it.

That's weird. Isn't thunder just a noise? Since when are eyes sensitive to noises?

And i'm not talking about the logic, as there's nothing wrong with raising Nicolai to get to Isabel, but would you buy the sequel to a book if the story was basicaly the same as in the original?

And powerful Necromancers didn't kill the king, he got poisoned by someone who was secretly working for another faction. If the Agrael - Raelag conection is real than that's another similarity.

At the very least they could have taken elements from other games, not one in the same series.

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 17 Apr 2006, 23:10

That's weird. Isn't thunder just a noise? Since when are eyes sensitive to noises?

If you heaven't noticed, I don't have ears. So I must hear, smell, feel and see with my ONE eye. Do you know what torture that is?!

And i'm not talking about the logic, as there's nothing wrong with raising Nicolai to get to Isabel, but would you buy the sequel to a book if the story was basicaly the same as in the original?

As I alredy told, there are few similiarities. Lets take Dark elves for one. They are not in so bad relations with humans (so they won't invade theme), but hate wood elves (who had a small role in roe). So how do they fit in the story?

And powerful Necromancers didn't kill the king, he got poisoned by someone who was secretly working for another faction. If the Agrael - Raelag conection is real than that's another similarity.

But what are the consequences of it? The kingdom is alredy attacked, so it wasn0t a preparation. It doesn't look to me like Necropolis and Inferno would have a good reason to join now when demons want to destroy the world, not take it.

At the very least they could have taken elements from other games, not one in the same series.

It has almost all factions from past games. It is imposible to have the story that isn't similiar to the past games. And it isn't the same now when you take some factions out and add dark elves who don't act like Nighon (which had a HUGE role in RoE).

And Agreal and Raelag don't have to do anything with old series.
Also, when before has a demon changed the side to dark elves?

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 17 Apr 2006, 23:18

You aren't getting the point.

Let's try it this way: Try and summarize what you know of the storylines of the two games. Keep it short, like three sentences each...

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 23:26

Switching around some factions, motives and blood relations does not an original story make. A new one maybe.

And Raelag is Dungeon, not Necropolis. And the Kreegans also wanted to destroy the world/turn it into hell.

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 17 Apr 2006, 23:27

Gaidal Cain wrote:You aren't getting the point.

Let's try it this way: Try and summarize what you know of the storylines of the two games. Keep it short, like three sentences each...

I am geting the point. The importance of the story isn't in global look, but in how it is told and how the story changes. In H3, the end of story would be killing king Gryphonheart, but H5, as how I have heard, has one campaign for every faction. And how humans are the in first campaigns, it can't end at same way. And don't forget the dark elves (which weren't in H3) and their hatred towards wood elves (whichs importance in H3 was minimal) and show me the similiarity.

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 17 Apr 2006, 23:29

ThunderTitan wrote:Switching around some factions, motives and blood relations does not an original story make. A new one maybe.

And Raelag is Dungeon, not Necropolis. And the Kreegans also wanted to destroy the world/turn it into hell.

I tought that we are talking about story copying, not originality. Not even H3 had an original story. I saw more original ones.

I know that Rhaelag is dungeon.
My quote:

And Agreal and Raelag don't have to do anything with old series.
Also, when before has a demon changed the side to dark elves?

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