Hero specializations in H5

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 17 Apr 2006, 14:47

Many people complain about the strenght of Master Hunters in the demos Duel mode. I belive I know the anwser why. Ossirs specialization are Elven archers, and thus he gives them a boost in power. I must say: I REALLY like it!!! Finaly the effects of unit specializations are noticable on the battlefield, I know they are hellish strong, but I think it's very interesting. Moreover, what do you say if the heroes with unit specialization would give that unit a unique ability? For instance three shots for the Hunter. Yeah it would require a lot more balancing but it would be fun! What do you say?

Vlad976 · Unread postby **Vlad976** » 17 Apr 2006, 15:08

vote Hero specializations that give a big boost to specialized units power and an extra unique ability,
if it can be pulled off properly.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 15:18

How about a specialization that gives an extra unique ability, but not such a big boost to the creature?

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 17 Apr 2006, 15:34

Only abilities is also a good option, but I think it would be more interesting if power and abilities were combained, because it would make the weaker units like Imps or Gremlins quite useful. Just think about it: in H3 heroes with specializations were not popular with their specialization, usualy they were chosen because of their abilities (like Ryland) or because they gave you those units (like Bron). And now, what if a specialization gives a boost in attack and defence to the Imp and for instance an ability Gating not 1/4 of the units number but 1/2? This way the Imp with a high level hero would be a unit that could easily fight with stronger units, even with level seven's! I think it would bring much more strategy in the game...and yes, it would have to be well balanced.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 17 Apr 2006, 15:42

I'm not saying no boost, just a lower boost if they also have an unique ability. So you would also have heroes that just boost the stats, but better.

val-gaav · Unread postby **val-gaav** » 17 Apr 2006, 17:51

I voted

"I would prefer if there wouldn't be any hero specializations"

easier to balnce ... still many heroes would be unique becouse many of them start with a second skill beside the racial skill like "gating" ... It would be diffrent if u played with demon lord that starts with offence ... or a demon lord that starts with destruction magic .... etc etc ...

niteshade6 · Unread postby **niteshade6** » 17 Apr 2006, 19:23

Are you sure it's the special ability that is responsible and not just that the unit is really strong?

Salisa · Unread postby **Salisa** » 17 Apr 2006, 19:53

Well I'm not going to vote , as I've looked through the spec's for the known heroes and I like all the choices.., made by Nival..

However, I see that that heroes spec's are not very well balanced due to the fact that many of the plus 1's per every two lvl's is used way to broadly.. Some heroes should get that bonus more often or the one's with stronger units should get it much less often, the later is my choice..

I like that fact that Nival has given the heroes many of the types of spec's that existed before, so that I can replay my solo games with different heroes and get a different type of play!!!

To the OP, If I'm really reading you correctly you want to have a super over powered hero and go first everytime... I haven't dueled yet in the demo do to all the hack cheating that went on in the open beta... This type of play in the end isn't rewarding for anyone because even the one with the over powered units truly knows their victory is hollow.. edit: or not as having a super over powered hero and units would mean even if you went last it wouldn't matter...

IMO no game should be made with cheat codes.. Nor should a game be made that so hard you have to have cheat codes to play..:\

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 18 Apr 2006, 08:25

niteshade6 wrote:Are you sure it's the special ability that is responsible and not just that the unit is really strong?

I think it is...when I looked at the creature statistics (Master Hunter) then I saw their are similiar to level sevens. I just hope it's not a bug but the effects of specializations. If not, we need a lot of balancing here :/

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 18 Apr 2006, 10:53

Might be because the heros Attack and Defense are very high.

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 19 Apr 2006, 19:37

ThunderTitan wrote:Might be because the heros Attack and Defense are very high.

I don't think so, those hero statistics are not so great. But with power like that I just can imagine it with a hero level 50 or so. Then what 1 Master Hunter = 1 dead Black Dragon?

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 19 Apr 2006, 20:16

I just figured out what makes them so powerfull. The hero also starts with a skill and ability that coresponds to his special, thus making it even better. In this case he prob has archery (+20% dmg).

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 20 Apr 2006, 19:11

Altough Hunters are powerful, they still don't have much hitpoints. And they are also not very fast either, especially in comparison to Dungeon units for instance. They can masacre your precious units, but still they are quite vurnable.

Quite similiar to Grand Elves or Sharpshooters from H3...

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 20 Apr 2006, 19:21

Hero specializations that give a big boost to specialized units power and an extra unique ability.

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 30 Apr 2006, 17:35

Damn, I really like those specializations:D. While playing the Falcons map, my Succubus Mistresses, with Jezebeth at level (around) 15 (her speciality are Succubus) in a number of 145, with luck and Righteous Might cast on them killed 42 Paladins, 75 Imperial Griffins, 12 Inquisitors and 97 Archers with one shot!

That's what I call the power of specializations (If the power of the attack was really affected by the specialization)!

BenchBreaker · Unread postby **BenchBreaker** » 30 Apr 2006, 17:47

woah, those things have at least 8400 hp so each succubus did around 60 damage! are you sure about those figures, if you are then the special is way too powerful

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 30 Apr 2006, 18:59

BenchBreaker wrote:woah, those things have at least 8400 hp so each succubus did around 60 damage! are you sure about those figures, if you are then the special is way too powerful

Sure I'm sure

. It's like a high level chain lightning spell! I wonder if it's the effect of no penalty shot, because those Paladins were standing very close to the Succubus. If I figured it out correctly, the damage is counted diffrently on each unit.

And Succubus Mistresses were the strongest units in my army:
1. First shot, retaliation (with luck) for a Ballistae attack, effect: 1 Ballistae down, 90 Archers, 64 Squires, 1 Archangel also lost in action :/
2. Second shot (also with luck), effect: 11 Archangels (4-8 without luck, close range) down, and killed (no more Archangels on the field), 19 Paladins, about 60 Squires and a "couple" of Archers.
3. And the third shot was described by me before...
4. There was a fourth shot, this time without luck, but there were only Squires left to shoot at (at the begining of battle there were 334 of them)...

Talking about power, I wonder what would've happened if Jezebeth was on level 99!!!

The rest of my army was meat, maybe Pit Fiends and Lords were useful...

PS: I know their power is a "bit" unbalanced, but to cheer you up, those Succubus would be done for if those Paladins got too close...

BenchBreaker · Unread postby **BenchBreaker** » 30 Apr 2006, 20:21

i just checked on the web, succubus mistresses have 6 attack and 6-13 damage while paladins have 24 defence.

145 sucubus did 4200+ damage and killed 42 paladin, so each one did 29 damage, which is more than double their maximum basic damage, was it a close range shot? considering their att is 18 points lower than the paladin's defence, how much att bonus did a lv 15 jezebeth give to them??

also what you are saying is basically you killed an army of 12 lv7s, 60 lv6s, ?? lv5s, ?? lv4s, 334 lv3s, and ??lv2s, with only 145 lv4s doing the damage in 4 rounds!!?

that is overpowered

Nebs · Unread postby **Nebs** » 30 Apr 2006, 20:38

BenchBreaker wrote:i just checked on the web, succubus mistresses have 6 attack and 6-13 damage while paladins have 24 defence.

145 sucubus did 4200+ damage and killed 42 paladin, so each one did 29 damage, which is more than double their maximum basic damage, was it a close range shot? considering their att is 18 points lower than the paladin's defence, how much att bonus did a lv 15 jezebeth give to them??

+8 Att, +8 Def just from special. Add +20% from archery, and lucky shot. Plus arties, and regular leveling up.

It's not that specialisation is that overpowered (as said +8 on attack and defense, unless some hidden bonus is there as well), but combination of all those elements above. Lucky shot being the most important. If it indeeds doubles the damage...

EDIT: And Righteous Magic.

BenchBreaker · Unread postby **BenchBreaker** » 30 Apr 2006, 20:41

we don't even know if it's close range shot yet, if it's not then it's even more scary

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