Heroes VI Celestial

[vicheron]

@parcaleste



Guess what? What you know about basilisks came from an alternation of the original idea. The original myth about the basilisk, as far as we know, says that it can kill with its stare. It was only later that people changed the myth so that they petrify instead of just outright kill. The basilisk's appearance changed even more, sometimes it's shown to have the head of a rooster, sometimes the head of a dragon. Sometimes it has the body of a lizard with six to eight legs, sometimes it has the body of a chicken. Sometimes it looks like a dragon, other times it looks like a snake or even a Chinese dragon.



And what about Titans, Genies, Efreets, Gremlins, Raksashas, Golems, and all the other mythical creatures that were already changed in M&M? The fact of the matter is that all mythologies get altered. The Romans changed the Greek gods to suit their own needs. The Christians took a bunch of ideas from a bunch of different cultures. Heck, the original idea of hell came from Gehenna, a burning trash pit outside of Jerusalem, but over the years, people changed the story, combined it with Greek myths about Hades, and then turned it into an eternal fire pit for damned souls. A lot of Christian beliefs today don't even come from the bible, they come from other sources like Dante's Inferno, Milton's Paradise Lost, and Marlowe's Doctor Faustus. There's no reason why we have to keep them exactly the same, especially considering how M&M doesn't even take place in our world so their mythology could be completely different from ours.
Edited on Tue, Nov 30 2010, 20:34 by vicheron

[hellegennes]

Titans weren't gods in mythology. They were the children of Gaia (Earth) and Uranus (sky) and they had god-like powers but were more resemblant of elementals than anything else. Gremlins aren't sabotaging airplanes because there are non in HoMM,

The basilisk story is also a bit confusing. That's because of the translation. In any case, its gaze is that of Catobleps (Gorgon in H3) or Medusa (on of the three Gorgons).

[vicheron]

Titans were the primordial gods of Greek mythology. They just weren't the gods the Greeks worshiped. The Greeks worshiped the Olympian gods, who were children of the titans. Also, Gaia and Ouranos were considered titans.



The concept of elemental is a rather modern concept, it didn't appear until more than 2,000 years after the myth of the titans.

[parcaleste]

Titan is NOT equal to God. You can call them pre-Gods, if you will, but not Gods. Elements - yes, Gods - no.

It's like to call the Giants in Scandinavian mythology Gods. It's pretty much the same.

About the Basilisk, OK, I write it there that this is how I know the creature since I was a kid. And one thing is to change name (as Romans did with the Greek Gods), other thing is to change their sex. And here we speak about "problems" that where solved centuries ago.

[hellegennes]

No, Titans were never described as Gods. Gaia and Ouranos were neither Gods nor Titans themselves. They were demons. Demons were the first beings to exist and have nothing to do with evil in Greek mythology. Death, Victory, Chaos, Night, Eros (Love), Eris, Nemesis... they were all demons. The Gods were children of Titans generally, comprising the third generation of superbeings. Also, the Gods never worshipped the Olympian Gods as a whole. Most regions had their own God while some places worshipped other deities (mostly lesser Gods or demons).

[parcaleste]

And to be more specific, it's daemons in ancient Greek.

[vicheron]

It's not daemons or demons, it's daimons, and the concept came from Socrates, at least 300 years after the myth of the titans were created. Oh and daimon meant "divine power" so even if the titans were daimons, it meant that they were divine, which would means that they were godlike. Look up Protogenoi and Theogony.

[hellegennes]

No, the concept belongs to Hesiod, 300 years before Socrates. And "Daimon" means "all-knowing". Later it came to mean supernatural.

[Orfinn]

All that armor contradicts their superiority role as champions... A really great fighter, even if as an angel shouldnt need armor at all, well not THAT much and only the UPG(s) could have armor, not the basic unit. They should really rely on skill and fighter experience above armor.



Also game-play wise they could just be as good with or without armor, just dont change the stats, simple!

[Kalah]

So ... you want quickness and agility over strength and armour, is that right?

[vicheron]

"No, the concept belongs to Hesiod, 300 years before Socrates. And "Daimon" means "all-knowing". Later it came to mean supernatural."



Whatever, we can argue about Greek mythology all day but my point was that the titans in Heroes are nothing like the Titans in Greek myth. If parcaleste can accept the changes Heroes made to other mythological creatures, like the Titans, then it's highly hypocritical to be bothered by the changes they made with angels.

[ThunderTitan]

Titan is NOT equal to God. You can call them pre-Gods, if you will, but not Gods. Elements - yes, Gods - no.

Someone's been playing too much WoW and GoW....

The differentiation is between Titans and Olympians... which is why the most popular theory is that the whole Titanomachy is about how the old, more rural gods where replaced by more civilized versions as civilization moved past the whole shamanistic phase.

The Christians took a bunch of ideas from a bunch of different cultures. Heck, the original idea of hell came from Gehenna, a burning trash pit outside of Jerusalem, but over the years, people changed the story, combined it with Greek myths about Hades, and then turned it into an eternal fire pit for damned souls.

Actually a lake of fire or something like that is in the Bible... and if i recall right it's the only mention in it of how the afterlife is for the wicked.

The Romans changed the Greek gods to suit their own needs.

Actually they did a reverse interpretatio greaca on gods they already had...

[vicheron]

Actually a lake of fire or something like that is in the Bible... and if i recall right it's the only mention in it of how the afterlife is for the wicked.



The lake of fire is Gehenna. Also, the whole idea of the lake of fire being where wicked souls were sent was in the New Testaments. The Old Testament mentions Tophet, which was a place in Gehenna where dead things were burned.

[ThunderTitan]

The lake of fire is Gehenna. Also, the whole idea of the lake of fire being where wicked souls were sent was in the New Testaments. The Old Testament mentions Tophet, which was a place in Gehenna where dead things were burned.

Eh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tophet

I think that Gehenna, Hades or Hell where words used by christians for the lake of fire, but weren't in the Bible per se. Although my knowledge of the Old Testament isn't that good, over here they seem to only sell the new one.


And yes, it was the New Testament, how does that matter?!

[Orfinn]

@ Khala



Well, I would say that. Whats the point with wings if they aint gonne be on the fly striking like proffesional air speriority fighters of the divine :p



@ TT



The Christians down outright stole aspects of different cultures! A reason why Chritianity are so popular maybe?

The cross aint christian either, as far as I know. Tribes (even before the so called birth of christ) used crosses on graves to easier hang gifts on them, like flowers etc, I guess they still buried the most treasured items along with the body though..

Also the name Hell I guess is inspired by Hel, the norse godess of the underworld. A real #%¤@€, could be a great lover to the greek underwolrds Hades, no?

[ThunderTitan]

Eh.... are you aware of the reason why Christians use crosses?! Has something to do with them being execution devices some 2000 years ago.

As for Hell... that's a word used by english speaking world which does come from Hel... just like arab christians use Allah, or the early greek speaking christians used Hades when translating Sheol from the Bible etc.

Most of the stuff that comes from other religions/cultures isn't dogma.

[GreatEmerald]

Interesting note: "Hell" in German in fact means "Light", which is basically the exact opposite of anything you would associate hell with

[Mirez]

better translated to "bright" as it's about stuff being bright rather then actual light. Light is Light in german, they just pronounce it different.

[GreatEmerald]

Light is Light in german, they just pronounce it different.

No, Licht. But I meant light as an adjective, not a noun.

[Gaidal Cain]

Interesting note: "Hell" in German in fact means "Light", which is basically the exact opposite of anything you would associate hell with

Well, it's ruled by the "light bearer", so...