2 last towns almost official, it appears they killed titans

[XEL II]

There is only one of them, who survived.

[Elvin]

Who told you that?

[Nelgirith]

There is only one of them, who survived.

Nope.

Desperate to protect her people, Tuidhana turned to other allies. As her lands were burned and her subjects killed, she made a pact with one of the few surviving Faceless, rumoured to have long since been driven extinct.

[ThunderTitan]

Man, i really hope that they don't keep the Faceless like in that drawing... just make them look more like a shadow of a human/elf/dwarf instead of an angel.

If there are Faceless in the Dungeon, they would most likely be Champions.
They are counterparts of Angels and arch-enemies of them (like Archdevils were in H3).

Seeing how the Angels where able to pretty much beat them to the point of near extinction they might not be as strong as them...

Plus, the Black Dragons are the children of Malassa, the Faceless are just a race she made, while Elrath seems to just have Angels, while (S)Ylath made humans, which are pretty weak.

[Nelgirith]

Seeing how the Angels where able to pretty much beat them to the point of near extinction they might not be as strong as them...

Plus, the Black Dragons are the children of Malassa, the Faceless are just a race she made, while Elrath seems to just have Angels, while (S)Ylath made humans, which are pretty weak.

Maybe because they were not alone to fight the Faceless ... It also says in that timeline entry that Elvish civilization and kingdom was destroyed in that war, so one can suppose that it was more of an all-vs-Faceless war than an Angel vs Faceless only war. The crusade was initiated by Angels, but they surely didn't wage war alone.

[ThunderTitan]

If their kingdom was destroyed why would you assume they where on the winning side?!

[Nelgirith]

If their kingdom was destroyed why would you assume they where on the winning side?!

Most likely the same reason why you assume Faceless are weaker than Angels just because they lost the war

[parcaleste]

The Faceless might have lost the war because the Archangels came up with some sort of an artifact and not because they were weaker as, err... units.

[ThunderTitan]

Guys, the point was that there's no need for the Faceless to be as powerful as Angels, and there's actual lore that points are the Angels being better...

Otherwise we don't really know either way...

Most likely the same reason why you assume Faceless are weaker than Angels just because they lost the war

Huh?! How is assuming someone must have been weaker to get defeated the same as assuming someone must have won a war because their kindgom got destroyed?!

[Nelgirith]

Guys, the point was that there's no need for the Faceless to be as powerful as Angels, and there's actual lore that points are the Angels being better...

I'd love to see that lore part. I have yet to see anything saying that the Angels are stronger than the Faceless.

You're only assuming Angels are stronger than the Faceless because they lead a victorious CRUSADE against them. But hey ... it was not a mere war just between Angels and Faceless, it says a crusade, which implies that Angels have set other races against the Faceless. Doesn't that imply that for whatever reason the Angels didn't want to face the Faceless (har har!) alone.

Now why did they do that ? Did they want to avoid losing to a stronger enemy ? Did they want to avoid terrible losses against an equal enemy ? Did they want to make a point by allying all the races against a squishy heathen ?

We simply have no info about who of the Angels or the Faceless were the strongest.

[ThunderTitan]

A Crusade simply means a holy war... so you're the one reading too much into it...

And again, the point is that there's nothing that says the Faceless are as powerful as Angels, but there is lore that states that the angels did defeat them (and still had enough population left so that it is mentioned that it was the 1st demon invasion that reduced their numbers to make them join Haven)... no word though on if they had help or not.

[Pahomije]

Plus, the Black Dragons are the children of Malassa, the Faceless are just a race she made, while Elrath seems to just have Angels, while (S)Ylath made humans, which are pretty weak.

Every Elemental Dragon we've encountered so far has children of it's own, as well as an Elder race he/she created. It just that the 4 elements Elemental dragons created races of nearly equal power, while Light and Shadow ones created significantly stronger races, who are equal in strength to their children. Who's to say Elrath and Ylath don't have children of their own - Gold/Sunny dragons and White/Silver dragons (for example) respectively? While I would like to see a Faceless unit as a Champion, it conflicts with Black dragons though.

[ThunderTitan]

Elrath doesn't seem to in Heroes at least... Any Gold Dragons in DM?

[Thelonious]

Well lets state the options:

Wizards
Orcs
Dwarves
Elves
Dark (or the more preferred Shadow) elves
- Faceless
Naga/Lizard
Free Cities?

Then lets check on a human being able to gain an influencial position:

Wizards: humanoids so yes
Orcs: no - thus, no orcses
Dwarves: doubt it, I don't think dwarves are in. (To bad Gimli fans)
Evles: doubtfull, elves are humanoid, yet always portaited as vain thus unlikely to accept human rule
Dark Elves: Still weak at this point together with faceless: possible.
Naga/lizard: depends on the portrail of the faction
Free Cities: possible as they are a mix of every thing.

Thus we have 3 'real' options: Wizards, Dark Elves, Free Cities. Judging by UbiHole's past Free Cities will not be in the game as they do not feature a central race.

If I were to be correct, and heaven forbid I am, a participating faction could also be a dark elf naga mix which splits in an expansion.

[ThunderTitan]

Splitting towns seem to complex for Ubi... not to mention that they seem to intent on the whole race=faction thing...

And elves with a human leader works seeing how this is before the part where humans are perceived as not doing enough for their sylvan allies (if i remember right, i'm kinda tired)

[Thelonious]

Well perhaps this will be the sylvan human breaking point...

[ThunderTitan]

So, at this point it appears they killed Titans even if the Wizards are in the game... and all the other classic final level units. I just hope that we don't get some lame Giant Statue/Giant Electro-Statue replacement like Haven did...

[Thelonious]

Well it'll be either that or they'll make it a boss unit...

[Dave_Jame]

Elrath doesn't seem to in Heroes at least... Any Gold Dragons in DM?

Don't take me wrong, but I didn't see any Air dragons(sylath) or Water dragons (salashas) in H V or DM, but i still assume that they exist.

And someone correct me, but weren't the Angels as well decimated as the Faceless in that ancient war? I didn't heard about any Angelic cities or nations. Angels only appear as celestial messengers, who came from the celestial relem to aid Elraths faitfull in battle.

So from my point of view they are as well extinct as the faceless.

[Avonu]

And someone correct me, but weren't the Angels as well decimated as the Faceless in that ancient war?

The Ancient Age

Elder Wars
The Angels launch a crusade on the Faceless. The destruction is terrible, and the elder races suffer tremendously. Early civilizations and kingdoms are destroyed.


28-40 YSD: Wars of Fire
First great demon incursion.
Most of the Angels perish during these wars. The survivors take refuge in the Falcon Empire, which is increasingly turned away from the Dragon of Air and toward the Dragon of Light.
The Seventh Dragon sacrifices himself to end the Wars and repel the demon incursion. Sar-Elam and his disciples seal the demons away to prevent their return.

it seems that demons are main reason for low numbers of angels on Ashan.